Sometimes good, sometimes bad

[Stefka]

I am pretty confused as to why this is happening. Sometimes I have a feed that is not painful. A bit uncomfortable but not sore. Then the next time I try to do the exact same thing and it hurts. Obviously I must be getting the latch right sometimes and not others but I can't see what the difference in what I am doing is. I try to take him off and reattach him but I can only do this a few times as after the first five minutes he just won't go back on at all.

Stefka, this is normal when a bad situation turns into a better, and then a good one. You and your baby are learning together. Great that you are hanging on in there

It takes time for both you and your baby to get the hang of it. It sounds as if you are getting there. Some babies do feed more easily than other. I found it hard with my son (first child) got mastitis but was determined to do it and fed him until he was 6 months when I went back to work. However I am not sure he ever had enough milk and he was not totally happy until he was weaned. My second child fed easily and I breast fed her exclusively until she was one. My third child was like my son, always hungry and crying. After a month I started giving her one bottle before bed and by 5 months she was totally on a bottle. My point is however good you are all kids are different and whatever feels right for you and your baby is the right thing to do. as long as you are both happy. Good luck!

If you do hugs, then here's one for you (((((((hug))))))))).

Establishing feeding can be such hard work, can't it? Can you find out if you have a la Leche group need you, or a breast feeding clinic? Others may be able to see what you are doing differently when the latch is painful, and advise you.

However, you are well ahead of lots of people who don't realise that a painful latch isn't right. Some poor souls are told by midwives/hv's that bfing is just meant to be painful in the early days!!!!

I found that rituals helped me to latch on right - putting the yellow pages down for my feet, having the pillow behind me in the right place and a glass of water to hand. By getting myself properly ready, I was more relaxed, and more likely to get the latch right.

Best of luck. It does/will get easier and will be worth all of this hastle in the long run. (I had huge stress getting ds1 to feed. But when he was 2 months old, my car broke down on our first outing out together and it took over an hour for the breakdown people to rescue us. I was sooooooo glad that I could snuggle up with my contented baby and feed whilst we waited. Every tear and sleepless night suddenly became very worth it - and that was just the start of the good days!)

I second everything everyone else has said and the most important thing Stefka is that you are still feeding your son and it is all you and you can feel so darned proud of yourself because of that! It is getting better and you're learning a new skill (don't know if you drive but if you're anything like me, when I learnt I thought I'd never be able to work my body to be able to change gear and use the pedals at the same time without looking, checking, missing it and always getting it wrong. By them time I passed my test, I could do it without looking but had to think. By now - many years later, I could drive in my sleep...)

Breastfeeding is like that but harder: your baby has to learn to 'drive' as well as you and he has no idea, bar a sucking instinct, what he's doing! The good latches will start to join up and one day you'll realise it hasn't hurt at all...

It's some days since your first post when you said you were very low and you've made so much progress since then. How are those nips healing?

Thanks everyone for letting me post so much - I don't know what I would have done without the support here.

I am on the jelonet now and it seems to be helping. They are in pretty bad shape though so I guess it will take some time. I hope they can get better while I am still feeding.

It took me 2 years to learn to drive!!

I seem to have gone backwards - every feed was painful yesterday and last night was just awful

Aw Stefka! Is there anyone who can help you to check your latch? If not, there are websites which describe it. Perhaps someone will be along who knows a link for you - I'll see what I can find.

In the meantime, this is how I learned. Hope it helps.

1. Make sure that you are sitting with your back well supported by pillows, so that you are up straight.

1. Make sure that your knees are at a 90 degree angle, not drooping down or poking up in the air. I used to put a copy of yellow pages under my feet.

1. Try having a large pillow on your lap to support baby.

4.Your hand should be on baby's back/shoulders, not on the back of his head. Just your first two fingers should be supporting his head, so that you are not tempted to push him in.

5.Make sure that those fingers are nice and relaxed, so that his chin is pointing at your breast, with his head tipped back a little.

6.Adjust his body so that you are bringing his nose into your nipple.

1. Let his top lip touch your nipple momentarily, so that his mouth gapes, and then wooosh! Pop him on whilst he is gaping and his tongue extended.

Once he is on, if it is painful, pop a little finger under his lip to break the vacuum and try again.

I'll be back. (I found it so hard that at one stage, I had dh make up a bottle of formula, convinced I was going to fail. That allowed me to relax and have "just one more try". About seven hundred "one more tries" later, I felt relaxed enough to throw the formula out!!)

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Keep going mate!

Let us know what it was that was so awful about last night and maybe we can help? And is it at all better this morning?

You were doing so well and sometimes when tired, it's easy to lose it a bit. I still do, in fact my left nip is a bit sore at the moment and I'm on my third baby and 11 weeks in! But I've been a bit under the weather and I know I haven't been quite so careful about latching the little barracuda on in the last few days. If it is still really bad and those nipples aren't getting a chance to heal you could try the expressing option - if you contact your local NCT or La Leche group or hospital breastfeeding clinic or even local BF cafe (do you have contact details for these?) they might have a double electric breastpump you can use; and someone needs to advise you on cup feeding;

sounds like you HV is pretty good and supportive of BF (brought you the jelonet and all) so maybe ask her?

If the breast pump option sounds like a good one, you could express and let your nipples heal for a few feeds to give you a break?

But you really need someone local again to give you support I think - please don't be afraid to ask, it really is this gruelling for some of us (was for me and I successfully breastfed no1 for 9 months; no2 for 6 months and hoping no3 for at least a year)

You really can do it and if you can get through these awful painful moments it will be so much better on the other side and you will, I promise, enjoy breastfeeding

Hugs to you girl

So far I have had four people look at my latch. I am really loosing confidence. I feel like I need someone here for every feed to help me.

I posted before I saw your post monkeybird. It has just gone back to being painful again but I don't know what I am doing wrong. I think I will call the NCT woman again and see if she can come out. I have a midwife coming out today but they don't tell you what time they will be here so I can't plan a feed around their visit.

Sounds like a good plan Stefka (calling out the NCT woman) Ask about the shape of your nipple when baby comes off and ask if that helps her advise you?

Is it painful when you latch on and then subsides? Or a different sort of pain?

Another thing you can try is changing the way you hold baby - have you tried lying down or under your arm? If not, ask the NCT lady or MW to show you how - it can help to relieve the pain in particular spots on the nipple...

Good luck and we're here for you - I'll check back again to see how you're doing later...

Well the midwife came at the perfect time and watched him feed. The good news is that I had a good feed. The only bad thing is that I was hoping she would see me make whatever mistake I am making the other times so she could help me fix it. It all seems so completely random - I don't know why that feed was good and the others were bad.

I tried the rugby position but it was still painful. The pain is a sharp pain in my nipple which is worse at the start and then it hurts every time he sucks. The times that I get a good feed I don't get that pain.

Poor wee thing has hiccups now!

Oh, well done on getting a good feed. It means that you know that you can do it. Perhaps you were more focused with the MW there - a bit like having a driving instructor in the car. You tend to drive very carefully! It will become automatic in time, but if it helps you, keep on asking for someone to watch. If they are any good, they will be happy to help out.

(I had someone watching my latch for 6 weeks before I got it right! (We have a local drop in centre, which v. useful, but meant my boobs were very very public knowledge!))

I have the health visitor out tomorrow, the breast feeding support worker on Wednesday and the midwife back on Thursday. The care has been excellent. I do wish I could keep someone in the cupboard though and get them out for every feed!

LOL! If there are reports this week of a missing hv, breast feeding support worker or midwife, we'll know where to look then!

Hang on in there! You are doing brilliantly - not least by getting all of these folks to take you seriously.

My bfsupport worker used to say that in a traditional village setting, we would all sit around all day watching each othrer feed, and so we all have a lot of catching up to do.

Good for you Stefka - I am having EXACTLY the same problem and have had half the planet tell me my latch is fine. Am going to try NCT/BFN and see if a non-health professional wants to take a look too. If anyone says to me "persevere" one more time I will scream!
Keep in touch, we can be nip-cheerleaders!
x

It's so hard isn't it. You want to keep going but you can only sob your way through so many feeds. I had another good feed and one bad feed this afternoon so it is up and down. The nights are the hardest for some reason. I listen to the radio to get me through it - you hear some funny things in the middle of the night on radio 2!

Stefka - am really feeling for you. I had a very similar experience with my dd (now 2 and still breastfeeding, so there is hope!). I used to burst into tears every time she woke up for a feed. It was like broken glass when she latched on and usually for most of the feed as well. After seeing a lot of hv's who said useless things like "mmm the latch looks ok...it shouldn't hurt..." I saw a breastfeeding advisor who suggested using nipple shields until the nipples healed up. They're fiddly and annoying but I don't think I would have got through without them. I also hired a breastpump through the NCT and did a lot of expressing - much less painful than feeding at that stage, and it gave the nipples a rest.

One other thought - I have a suspicion in retrospect that my dd had a partial tongue tie which stops the tongue coming out beyond the lower gum ridge. Unless it's severe it usually sorts itself out on its own eventually, but in the meantime it can cause these kind of problems with feeding - has anyone checked for this?

Best of luck anyway. If you can get through this you'll get through anything x

I agree, last night I cried with pain for the first time, really scared hubby. But today has been a bit better - I guarantee though that the 3am feed will be a nightmare! Baby gets cranky from now until about midnight which I am sure adds to the frustration - he gets windy and wants to suckle for comfort whereas my poor boobs need a break!
Radio is a good idea, will try it tonight,
It is a good point the more experienced mums here made - at least some good feeds is progress. Let's keep going

Goodness, I could have started this thread.

Nice to know I'm not the only one having this problem (some good feeds, some bad). I've had thrush in milk ducts which distracted me from the terrible latch I had from day one. I've posted a few times about my problems. Today is a bad day but thankfully the bad days are getting less frequent. DD is 9 weeks old. I'm glad I persisted this far and I will do my best to continue (aiming to bf for one year minimum).

The only downside to my (amazing) homebirth has been the lack of bf help in the early days, but then they send women home from hospital so quickly these days, there is no guarantee I would have had more support if I'd given birth in hospital. Thank goodness for an amazing NCT bf counsellor who has helped me on several occasions.

Gosh is it still painful at nine weeks? I am not sure I could keep going if it is still sore at nine weeks. You've done so well. I hope that I can crack it before then.

Thrush was definitely the main source of pain from week 2/3 till about week 6/7. Since that cleared up, I've been working on a bad latch I didn't even know I had.

I found some useful tips (and reassurance) on the kellymom website for dealing with and understanding fussing at the breast and cluster feeding. Evenings are still the hardest time.

Good luck and don't worry, you won't have pain as long as me! The advice and support I've had on MN has been invaluable.

I will check out that site thanks. I am still having a mixed time. I had some really good feeds last night. Then during the night and this morning it got really bad again. The feed this morning was a sobbing one it was so sore I had to take him off after 15 minutes even though I knew he wasn't finished

Health Visitor due at 2 so hoping he won't want a feed till then.

Hey Stefka, Mandler and Naturelover,

You're all doing brilliantly and glad you're all in touch with each other - somehow sharing the pain makes it less bad I always found - sounds awful doesn't it knowing that someone else is suffering too but at least you know they understand where you're at...

I'm sure pain will be gone or at least much MUCH better by 9 weeks so don't let that worry you... And here's some reasons why it's worth persevering just one more feed (and another, and another)

ready made for your baby with everything they need including immune protection - so if you can do it up to and including if you go back to work you don't have to worry about them getting every bug known to human kind

just the right temperature, ready to feed anytime anywhere - believe me (we went onto mixed feeding after 5 months with DS2 since I had to go back to work and couldn't express enough) washing, sterilising, making up and storing bottles is a MAJOR hassle

lovely lovely moments for you and them as they turn and smile at you from the breast then latch right back painlessly on all by themselves - trust me, there will be a point when they can do this

easy schmeasy feeding in bed while you're still half asleep

shifting a few extra pounds (eventually!)

lots of protection for you from breast cancer, osteoporosis etc etc (I'm sure someone else will know all the good protection you get...)

Don't forget it can help some people to write down how the feeds are going - we often only remember the bad bits when the going is rough: if you write down the good ones then when you have one more bad one, you might remind yourself it HAS been getting better.

And I always found a little square of Green& Blacks chocolate helpful in the middle of the night (but then again that's why I'm not losing any weight while feeding )

keep going and good luck!