exclusive pumping not working

[MOGMOGMOG85]

Hi,

I'm really hoping to hear from anyone who has been through similar.

My baby is 5 weeks old now and has been home for 3 weeks. He was in hospital for 2 weeks in an incubator and being tube fed. When he was discharged I managed to exclusively breastfeed him for 2 days but he was losing weight, not sleeping, crying all the time and not pooing so I started giving him formula. He immediately started gaining weight, pooing and sleeping. I had been pumping when he was in hospital but since he'd been home I'd pretty much not been pumping just putting him to the breast as often as possible which at times was basically all day. This was driving me mad (I'm talking all day couldn't put him down for a second on the breast, and he was crying all the time hungry) so I started topping him up with more formula last week and hired a hospital grade pump to try and up my supply.

I've been pumping for a week now with an Ardo Carum, power pumping 4 times during the day, at least 6-8 pumping sessions in a day including 1-2 at night (the other 2-4 pumping sessions that aren't power pumping are 20m or sometimes at night whatever I can manage if that's 7-8 mins or so). I'm double pumping, I'm taking fenugreek, brewers yeast, raspberry leaf supplements, eating oats, drinking plenty of water, doing breast compressions during each pumping session and when I put baby to the breast (its hard to get him on the breast, he can't latch and relies on the nipple shield, he sleeps a lot and is difficult to wake and when he does wake he is usually starving and cries a lot - I tend to try him any time he is calm but usually only manage less than half an hour on the breast each day). I'm spending about 5 hours a day on the pump and feel I do nothing else.

First thing in the morning I might get 40ml a couple of times but then only 10-25ml per session after that, getting less as it gets later in the night.

Whenever my baby is near my breast without the nipple shield or whenever I latch him and grit my teeth through the pain (he crushes my nipple, I know I shouldn't do it but I want him to remember what breasts are for) milk drips constantly from my breasts - I honestly think the artificialness and the plastic is holding me back :(

I have paid for lactation consultants, gone to breastfeeding clinic, and I'm continuing to do these things. I feel like its just not working for us and I've tried everything.

Here is my question - do I continue pumping when I'm only getting less than 150ml per day? This week that has increased from 100ml to 150ml so I have seen an increase but it still seems so paltry. I've only been doing the power pumping, hospital pump, supplements etc for 1 week from when he was 4 weeks postpartum. He was a month early by emergency section and so it wasn't the most natural birth. I got no skin to skin and didn't even hold him for days and then didn't have him home for 2 weeks. The whole thing has been stunted from the start.

A part of me wants to do whatever I can to get some breastmilk into him, even 150ml a day, as I know it has immune benefits. But a part of me worries that being on the pump 5 hours a day is impeding our chance to bond. I don't have time for anything after feeding him, changing his nappy, and pumping. I try to have skin to skin time for 20m-1/2 an hour twice a day, and as I said I try to have him on the breast whenever I can which usually amounts to just half an hour each day atm...

Feeling really confused about whether I'm doing the right thing or what I should be doing and honestly starting to feel quite depressed about the whole thing. Greatly wish I could have that breastfeeding time to bond with my baby and have him gaze up at me - its making me cry even as I write this as I so wish we could have that.

Thanks

Is it painful with the nipple shields? I used nipple shields for the first three months with my son as well as a couple of bottles of formula or expressed milk a day. The breastfeeding support lady said there are plenty of women who use nipple shields long term. If it enables you to continue to breastfeed then I would try not to stress too much about weaning him off them if they’re enabling you to continue to feed.

I know how hard it is, it was so painful and uncomfortable for me for a long time I couldn’t imagine it ever being ok. But eventually it was and I fed him for 15 months in the end.

Just to add to the above if you want to be done with breastfeeding that is ok too. I remember feeling so relieved every time I gave him the bottle and didn’t have to latch him anymore

I was similar with my DTs. I was already in a dark place (pretty sure I had prenatal depression and was traumatised by ivf) and by the time they were 6 weeks I wasn’t able to express enough in 24 hours for one feed each. I remember tears streaming down my face at about 4am with this blasted pump stuck to my boobs and had a lightbulb thought “WTAF am I doing to myself?!”

I stopped pumping, threw it in the bin, and exclusively FF from then on. I did feel horrifically guilty at yet another failure on my part, but that was the pnd talking.

I’m beautifully bonded with my babies not babies anymore and wish I’d been kinder to myself. I did my best but my body didn’t play ball. The kids are grand, and nobody really cares how they’re fed as long as they get fed. Especially once you’re on to weaning! Be kind to yourself and do whatever you feel most comfortable with, a happy mum is important too 💐

Hi @Sunshine1235, thanks for your replies - its not painful with the shields, when I put him to the breast I usually use shields - occasionally I slip them off and try latching him just to try to get him into the habit. The problem is my supply - I went 2 days in the hospital exclusively breastfeeding him and he was just starving. At home even with 5 bottles I was still struggling to feed him on the breast as he was starving... I don't know why - perhaps the shields impede my supply? I do notice a big difference when I have my bare breast by him or in his mouth, the milk comes so freely.

@MuchTooTired thank you so much for this - its definitely worth thinking about. Ive had a really bad day today but have been doing quite well mentally the last week. I think I will try just a little longer but will keep in the back of my mind that it is ok to give up if I need to. It won't help our bonding if I do become depressed or if I am frustrated and upset all the time. Thank you xx

Oh my love, this all sounds like such hard work and so miserable. Give yourself permission to stop and use formula if you need to. It really is OK, i promise!

I don't have any specific advice but just wanted to reach out.

Don't beat yourself up if you can't carry on with breastfeeding, above all things your baby needs a healthy and happy mum

Have you tried pumping and feeding at the same time? Baby on one side, pump on the other! It tricks your body into thinking you have twins? Have you considered using a nursing supplementer? I used one to try and get the baby back on the breast but it was a massive fuss.

I ended up formula feeding during the day and breast feeding at night when my supply was better, I found it poured out of me at 4 in the morning but couldn’t even get 2 ounces at 4 in the afternoon.

Sit on the sofa for a week and nurse constantly. Your supply will increase to meet the demand. I believe it takes 2-3 days for your body to adapt. Yes it hurts when they latch on bit this does stop. Use lots of lansinoh to help with cracking and pain. If the whole feed hurts then change latch or position - YouTube videos are good for this. It is hard but it does get easier.

Alternatively you give in, give baby formula full time and accept breastfeeding was not right for either of you. THIS IS NOT A FAILURE IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE A BAD PERSON! It means you are an exhausted mummy doing what is best for you and your baby.

Good luck you are amazing!

Breast milk is great - but not at the expense of your time with baby and enjoying the baby days. I pumped for 10 weeks with my first and in hindsight it really stressed me out and stopped me enjoying my newborn as much as I could have done. It took my gp telling me I could stop to let myself stop. Please feel ok with formula, you are doing your best and your baby will love just being near you and being cuddled.

My 32 weeker was tube fed and I had a horrendous time getting her to feed. I'm surprised they let you leave hospital without feeding being fairly well established? You poor thing, you're having a horrid time.

Things that helped me:
Giving myself permission to give up if I wanted to. For a LONG time, I worked on one feed at a time, and as I was pumping/feeding I used to tell myself that could be the last one if I wanted to.
I exclusively used nipple shields for weeks. She is off them now (and does get a lot more milk out) but I removed the guilt from using them.
I used the medela hospital double pump. Then, I hand expressed at the end of a pumping session. This had a big impact on my supply.
I made sure I pumped between 1 and 5am, as this is the most important time for prolactin which supports milk supply.
We did LOADS of skin to skin. As in, we sat in bed all day just cuddling naked. When I had to get up, I carried her in a sling.
I made sure she regularly sucked on dummies or my fingers to develop her strength of suck.

But as someone has said above - it really is okay to stop. You're a good mum and you've given your baby the most important few weeks of milk. It will be great if you can keep feeding breastmilk, but it will also be great if you decide to stop.
Feel free to pm me if you want to x

It’s hard with your first and when you’ve had a c section, even harder when they won’t suck well.
A Hakka type pump on one side and feed on the other. I can get as much from a Hakka as from a normal pump. They are cheap on Amazon
Have a nice warm bath, and try pumping then. Have a bath with baby for the skin to skin. Sit on the sofa, chill out half dressed, with only a nappy on baby, heating whacked up full, watch programs you love on tv and feed baby. Get some good quality ready meals in, lots of snacks to hand, thermal mug or two with hot drinks as you need to drink loads and just feed (stick the Hakka on the other side) and eat and relax for a week. If it works great, if it doesn’t you’ve had a lovely week bonding with your baby.
DD struggled to latch and lost weight once she grew a bit she did manage to suck much better and now refuses bottles.

I think you’ve done amazingly; with my first DD she was born early and I had to exclusively pump for the first 2.5 weeks but never made enough to be able to exclusively have her tube fed on breast milk as pumping just didn’t get enough. It felt a like a full time job to pump and visit her in hospital so I can’t even imagine how difficult and time consuming it is to pump and be looking after a newborn. There isn’t a right or wrong answer but whatever you do you’ve given your DS a lot of goodness through what you’ve done.

I used nipple shields with my baby from when we were in the hospital and really felt despairing about it sometimes as he just couldn't latch on without them, I'd try without or slipping them off halfway through a feed and he'd just scream and refuse the breast. And then when he was about 3 and a half months old I'd not tried without for a couple of weeks as I was sick of the battle but randomly just decided to try and he latched on straight away. Used the shield again that night but tried without again the next day and that was the last time we ever used it and he's been fine feeding without it ever since! (Teething now is a whole other ball game!)

Enjoying your time with your baby is the most important thing:
-if giving formula enables you to do that then that's absolutely fine.
-if mix feeding with formula and breast milk works then go with that.
-if he only feeds with the shields relax and let it happen for now, they're a faff but it won't be forever.

As so many friends said to me, to your baby you are the only mama, and mama, you've got this!

Oh I really understand, I could have written your post 12 years and 10 years ago! I had such lovely intentions to EBF and it didn't happen the way I planned - just as you describe he was on the breast all the time, falling asleep after just a few sucks, had to wake him, start again, pump pump pump in case I'm sure my supply was the issue (I never got much). The BF counsellor diagnosed tongue tie which we got swiftly snipped but no change. I remember after a panicky visit to my doctor because I couldn't wake him up she told me to go and get some formula to top up as he was hungry and I felt such a failure. My husband was going to get it but I thought the least I could go was go and buy the stuff, and then there I was in Waitrose rocking my empty shopping trolley in floods of tears not wanting to pick it off the shelf because it 'meant I'd failed'. Of course the baby was happy and content after the bottle but I felt awful, as though I hadn't actually fed him. But of course I had. I did even try this crazy contraption of tubes attached to pouches and nipple shields that encourages the baby to suck both on the formula and the nipple at the same time - didn't work!
At 3 months there was no BFing at all. And exactly the same thing happened with baby no 2 - even down to the tongue tie!
Sorry it's so long but I just remember my feelings and if I could change one thing now, I would go back and accept the bottle feeding. Baby is well fed, and that is all you need to worry about!

Some great advice on here.

I’d second hiring the hospital grade pump (I chose medela), worked out £2 per day.
Also pumping one side while feeding the other- you clearly do have milk when you’re near your baby so that’s a great sign. You can cut a hole in an old bra to keep the pump hands-free and focus on feeding.

There is a lot to be said for mixed feeding. It takes the pressure off and still gives lots of the immune system benefits.

Hope it goes well

I had a similar story with my ds. I took a drug called domperidone- not specifically for breastfeeding but prescribed by gp. It did allow me to get up to around 600 ml a day and suppliment with formula. I was absolutely desperate to breastfeed and exclusively pumped for 6 1/2 months. When I stopped at 7 months it was suddenly very clear how limiting and time consuming it was. I feel sad that I was never able to breastfeed him properly, but did feel closer to him at night when he'd comfort suck which I miss. However, it's so much easier now that I wouldn't necessarily do the same if we ever have another child.

Oh and I was initially producing like 30 ml a 30 minute pump so domperidone- does work- however I would proceed with caution because I don't now if it contributed to my post natal depression. (Ds has medical issues that triggered this though)

Just rereading your post, I’d definitely try pumping while doing skin to skin. Even if it doesn’t increase your supply at first at least you’re doing two things at once (which is most of motherhood imo!)

Oh yes. If you are keen to continue the hospital pumps are amazing. I could have kept a small cow alive on the amount it sucked out of me!

a supplemental nursing system might help. sounds like you've both had a rough start, hope you're ok

I used the elvie pump. It was better than the other pumps because it meant I could do some things whilst in

If you do get a nursing supplementer start on the smallest tube and get ready made formula as powder clogs up the tube. I still have mine if you want to post it to you just pm your address. It’s so difficult at the moment to access proper support for latches etc. Our feeding support group is on zoom and it’s impossible to be honest!! Don’t feel guilty if it gets too much. You have your baby, enjoy being a mum.

How are you today @MOGMOGMOG85?

Whether you've decided to FF or carry on with the pumping and BF I think it might be worth getting him checked for Tongue Tie as it can affect them however they are fed.

If you are pumping and BFing it might also be useful talking all of this through with a BFC. Have you got the numbers fir the helplines?

This article on feeding sleepy babies might be useful too

I had similar OP. My baby is 5 months now, and I pumped all day every day for 3 months before I decided to give up. At one stage I wasn't getting enough so I was combining formula feeds with breast milk. He could never latch him so I always used a bottle. I used a hospital grade pump, fenugreek, consultants, tongue tie snip, you name it, plus tried nipple shields but he just would never latch.

Anyway I guess what I'm saying is, that whatever helps you feel best is best. Whether that's stopping altogether and moving onto formula - that is absolutely fine and I promise you, your baby won't notice or mind. Or whether that is doing a bit of breast milk alongside formula. That's fine too. Just know that whatever makes you feel best is the right decision for your baby. In the end I gave up the pump as I missed cuddling him, and I'm glad I did it. I now bottle feed, but I know he had the benefit of breast milk at the time he needed it the most, which is the same as your baby. So please, do what makes you feel best.

Also, one other thing. I missed cuddling and bonding since he wouldn't latch and I felt tied to the pump for so long. A consultant suggested I have baths with him (initially to encourage a latch). It never helped the latch but it did prove to be a lovely bonding time. I would really recommend this, just for bonding time, nothing to do with feeding.