exclusive pumping not working

[MOGMOGMOG85]

Hi,

I'm really hoping to hear from anyone who has been through similar.

My baby is 5 weeks old now and has been home for 3 weeks. He was in hospital for 2 weeks in an incubator and being tube fed. When he was discharged I managed to exclusively breastfeed him for 2 days but he was losing weight, not sleeping, crying all the time and not pooing so I started giving him formula. He immediately started gaining weight, pooing and sleeping. I had been pumping when he was in hospital but since he'd been home I'd pretty much not been pumping just putting him to the breast as often as possible which at times was basically all day. This was driving me mad (I'm talking all day couldn't put him down for a second on the breast, and he was crying all the time hungry) so I started topping him up with more formula last week and hired a hospital grade pump to try and up my supply.

I've been pumping for a week now with an Ardo Carum, power pumping 4 times during the day, at least 6-8 pumping sessions in a day including 1-2 at night (the other 2-4 pumping sessions that aren't power pumping are 20m or sometimes at night whatever I can manage if that's 7-8 mins or so). I'm double pumping, I'm taking fenugreek, brewers yeast, raspberry leaf supplements, eating oats, drinking plenty of water, doing breast compressions during each pumping session and when I put baby to the breast (its hard to get him on the breast, he can't latch and relies on the nipple shield, he sleeps a lot and is difficult to wake and when he does wake he is usually starving and cries a lot - I tend to try him any time he is calm but usually only manage less than half an hour on the breast each day). I'm spending about 5 hours a day on the pump and feel I do nothing else.

First thing in the morning I might get 40ml a couple of times but then only 10-25ml per session after that, getting less as it gets later in the night.

Whenever my baby is near my breast without the nipple shield or whenever I latch him and grit my teeth through the pain (he crushes my nipple, I know I shouldn't do it but I want him to remember what breasts are for) milk drips constantly from my breasts - I honestly think the artificialness and the plastic is holding me back :(

I have paid for lactation consultants, gone to breastfeeding clinic, and I'm continuing to do these things. I feel like its just not working for us and I've tried everything.

Here is my question - do I continue pumping when I'm only getting less than 150ml per day? This week that has increased from 100ml to 150ml so I have seen an increase but it still seems so paltry. I've only been doing the power pumping, hospital pump, supplements etc for 1 week from when he was 4 weeks postpartum. He was a month early by emergency section and so it wasn't the most natural birth. I got no skin to skin and didn't even hold him for days and then didn't have him home for 2 weeks. The whole thing has been stunted from the start.

A part of me wants to do whatever I can to get some breastmilk into him, even 150ml a day, as I know it has immune benefits. But a part of me worries that being on the pump 5 hours a day is impeding our chance to bond. I don't have time for anything after feeding him, changing his nappy, and pumping. I try to have skin to skin time for 20m-1/2 an hour twice a day, and as I said I try to have him on the breast whenever I can which usually amounts to just half an hour each day atm...

Feeling really confused about whether I'm doing the right thing or what I should be doing and honestly starting to feel quite depressed about the whole thing. Greatly wish I could have that breastfeeding time to bond with my baby and have him gaze up at me - its making me cry even as I write this as I so wish we could have that.

Thanks

Thank you so much everyone.

I'm in a bit of a state today. Slept through til 6am so was late starting my pumping regime and have only managed 80ml today so far which is terrible.

@user1471462428 I don't think I could do that - baby is so wriggle and hates going on my breast, it is a difficult thing to get him nursing at all and often I only manage twice in a day - it takes my full attention. The Ardo Carum pump I have with the milk bottles attached seriously gets in the way if I am trying to do anything with him at same time so I do it whilst he's sleeping.

@Spanglebangle I tried twice to go cold turkey on the breast and never put him down. it was utterly draining. i spent at first 2 days solid without sleep and then 3 days solid - baby was screaming the whole time hungry - i honestly dont think my supply was increasing for whatever reason be it the plastic of the nipple shield, the fact that he can't latch properly (even with shield) or the fact he was in an incubator for those first 2 weeks and after having a section a month early my body just didn't respond in the same way it would if i'd had a term birth and my baby with me straight away...

Thank you @Notahotelorabandb I think this is what I needed to hear. I've done a month of giving him some breast milk, I hope this can give him some benefits. Maybe if I give up the pump I can spend more time trying to latch him and if my supply dries up then so be it.

Thanks @October2020 I'm really struggling with the skin to skin - dont see how that much is physically possible when i'm on the pump 6 hours a day - I can't get near him when I'm on the thing as these tubes and milk bottles seem to take up my whole torso...

Thank you to everyone else for your advice and kind words. I think the final thing for me to try could be the domperidone - i will look into it and side effects and talk to a gp...

Thank you everyone xx

@MOGMOGMOG85 can you set the pump up and then put across on top, on your chest/shoulder? I used to pump with her on me but she was very small. If you can't then even a few hours in a sling will really help.

I really would give one of the BFing helplines a call this evening. MOG it sounds as though you need more personalised support than a forum can offer

Hey OP, following my message earlier, I mean this kindly but I think you need to take a step back to see the wood for the trees. In years to come you are going to remember whether you cuddled your baby and felt happy during this time, not what he fed on. Ive honestly been there so I mean this kindly. X

@MarahCarey thank you - I'm sitting here pumping now and genuinely thinking about what you've said. I guess the option I'm considering now (taking Domperidone) is pretty extreme - how do I know if this medication might affect my baby? I think I need to really consider why I am pursuing breastfeeding. Is it because I feel guilty, because that shouldn't be a reason. Is it because I want that bonding time with my son - there are other ways I could be using my time to build a bond with him. Already in the last day or 2 he has started making a bit more eye contact and I'm sure bonding will get easier as this increases and as he sleeps less too. At the moment the best bonded feeling I get with him is skin to skin on my chest, or burping him where I feel I am helping him and making him more comfortable and he gradually eases up and then drifts off on me. And I can do that all day if I want to, breast or not! Or is it the immune benefits to him? In which case l need to weigh that against taking a medication which for all I know may have an impact on him (although I know loads of mothers take it - loads of mothers feed formula too). Perhaps I need to speak to the doctor and think about it.

Perhaps my best option would be to continue pumping but to do it less intensively with the goal of just getting a tiny bit of milk into my baby rather than ebf. That would take the pressure off us in terms of trying to latch, and maybe if I give myself the goal of 6 x 15m pumping sessions and 1 x power pumping session a day it will stop me feeling I have to power pump every single time. And who knows mb with the pressure taken off something might happen with latching - but if it doesn't, I don't have to feel I'm constantly trying and failing at something - something I struggle with.

I think being a new mum is a fragile time - my self esteem is already at an all time low - my body is different, I'm bigger than |I've ever been, I don't seem to have time to shower or dress and I spend half the day half dressed ready to have skin to skin with my son - I have zero time for personal grooming and my nether regions are like a jungle! I sort of feel like a big gross walrus beached on the sofa all day half naked. So add to this sleep deprivation, bickering with my lovely partner, and "failing" at breastfeeding - all day every day - and I just feel awful. If I could get rid of that sense of "failing" from it it would be so much easier. Its crazy cos any other woman I would never judge and would think so kindly of in this situation, but for myself I have such high standards...

Anyway, thanks again and I will think about whether actually I've done enough now in terms of trying to get breastmilk into my boy, and whether quitting the pump altogether might be an option too.

xx

Hi OP I had to comment after reading your post. In fact, I am normally just a lurker on MN but I created an account specifically to comment! You’ve received lots of well intentioned and knowledgeable advice here but as a previous poster has said, I think you need to take a step back and see the woods for the trees - something that I know is very difficult in those first weeks and months.
There are so many similarities between your story and mine. I had a difficult birth too - certainly not the lovely skin to skin natural birth ideal I had been sold. And that made me even more determined to exclusively BF (though to be honest I was pretty determined I was going to). Didn’t work for various reasons and I ended up with trying to do a combination of small amounts of bfing, formula feeding and pumping. Doing all three is, in my opinion, impossible.
I remember bottle feeding three week old at two in the morning say, then setting my alarm for two hours later and waking up (baby still sleeping because it was happy having had bottle!) and using a breast pump. Every time the baby napped, I would pump. I was never out of my dressing down until after midday. I grew to loathe the pump. It wasn’t the baby giving me sleep deprivation, it was the pump.
Result? Post natal depression.
I’m making this all about me, but what I’m trying to say is that it is ok to stop pumping. It is ok to formula feed. Your baby won’t mind. You tried. The thing is, I look back at the first few months of my baby’s life and the truth is that they were the worst of my life. I cried all the time. I was essentially bullying myself.
You need to take a step back and either just embrace (and I mean embrace) formula feeding or maybe try formula feeding with one or two attempted breastfeeds a day. Throw away the pump. Really, do it.
You’ve had a tough start to motherhood. I’m now trying to conceive no 2 and I’ve told myself that if I have any of the same problems again we’re going fully formula. I want to enjoy my next newborn (if I’m lucky enough to conceive). I want to love spending time with them. You deserve that too

You’re not failing at all, you have tried everything and pushed yourself very hard.. can I be very honest and say I never bonded with either of my children breastfeeding. I really struggled with both of them and there were times I’d scream in pain. I bonded with them by just cuddling them, talking to them and carrying them in a sling. Breastfeeding isn’t the only way to bond and sometimes it makes things worse. Once you are a parent there will be always things to feel guilt about but you need to let go of that guilt. Your baby needs their mum to be happy and healthy.

Hi @Bytheseaside2016 - thank you so much for making an account and adding your comment! I really appreciate hearing from different mums with similar experiences and what worked for them. I feel the same about "combi" feeding. The pumping regime is practically a full time job, add to that being a mum, heating the formula up to the right temperature, then washing and sterilising everything, then he projectile vomits everywhere or has an explosive poo in the middle of the night, and on top of this I'm supposed to spend as much time as I can skin to skin with him and also latch him as often as possible ("latch" him as though its easy when its a total nightmare, stressful and unproductive from start to finish - his chin is set back which holds him back, he tongue thrusts my breast out of his mouth (probably because there's no milk there!), he wont/can't open his mouth wide enough to get a good latch or he cries in distress and punches and kicks me, and he crushes the tip of my nipple in his mouth... or he just falls asleep after one look at my breast!) even though I sit on the sofa half dressed all day I am not finding time to do all this. I can do pumping and feeding him, or I can do trying to latch him and cuddling him, I can't seem to manage all of these things and I just feel constantly stressed about the bits I am not managing. I honestly think I'm heading to depression if I dont' stop or change something, so I do thank you for the wake up call. I've decided to stop trying to latch, or only do it when it feels right and we're both calm, and to drastically cut down my pumping time - maybe 1xpower pumping session a day instead of 5, and the rest 15m sessions instead of 20m, and also just generally try to let myself skip a session if I really need to sleep or if I want to go for a walk one day or take a shower etc etc. I have basically given up on the idea of breastfeeding now - I'm not shutting the door to it completely, but I'm not trying to succeed any more which - similar to you - has been driving me insane because of all the difficulties I've had conceiving and then giving birth I really really really wanted to achieve this one thing. Let it go - I think, and as you say start to enjoy my baby - cuddling etc. Best of luck in your journey towards your second child, I know how hard fertility issues can be and wish you the best. Like most things (breastfeeding too!) its that awful thing where if you relax you're most likely to succeed, but how on earth are you supposed to relax when you want something so much (and the idea of trying to enjoy sex whilst trying to conceive is I'm convinced a total myth, or it took us years to start to get there anyway) xxx

@user1471462428 thank you so much for sharing your experiences - its actually an eye opener to consider breastfeeding itself might not be this magical thing I'm imagining it is and that it could interrupt bonding for some people, especially if the latch is bad or its not working. Thank you - you're right its absurd to think of that as the golden bonding opportunity, of course the hundreds and hundreds of mums who formula feed are also deeply bonded to their babies xxx

@TheBuffster just out of interest how old was your baby when you started on the domperidone? just getting an appointment with my GP today and my baby is already 6 weeks which feels so late..