Please help! Baby not latching, milk coming in, in pain

[peachypetite]

As above really. Baby just has no interest in even attempting to latch. This is despite help from la leche league and loads of one to one help from midwives in hospital. Managed to give colostrum in syringe but tried hand expressing earlier and no milk would come out however it was leaking from me on both sides. I have big boobs at the best of times let alone now, I’ve only slept an hour all night because it’s too sore to even lay down.

Didn’t manage to pump as much yesterday. Not sure why. Just seemed slower. I still pumped regularly and was up from 1-4am doing skin to skin, pumping etc. Had a look at the laidback position and she did latch, for about 30 secs.

Have you tried hand expressing a small amount when she tries to latch so that the milk starts to flow into her. Also make sure you're pace feeding when you're using bottles otherwise she'll find it too easy to be bottle fed and won't want to work to breastfeed. If you haven't had a check for tongue tie I would as if she has a severe tie she won't be able to latch. Really quick and easy to get snipped when they're tiny.

Good advice there from @JC12345.

WRT pumping, try and get the oxytocin flowing. Look at pictures of your baby (or cute puppies or something), try to relax, watch something funny etc. Also lean forwards as this speeds up the flow. Make sure you're drinking loads.

@JC12345 yep we do paced bottle feeding thank you. Who can check for tongue tie? My health visitor is meant to be coming early next week but I’ve been told it’s a phone call so not sure how much help she will be.

Ideally you need someone that's qualified in doing tongue ties to check. You can't do it by sight, they do it by feel. We ended up doing it privately with our twins but midwife should be able to refer on nhs I think. Was the difference between one of mine feeding and not as he had 100% tongue tie and midwives hadn't noticed (I'd fed our eldest before so knew something wasn't right). Health visitors might be able to refer (I don't know if they can) but they wouldn't be able to diagnose a tongue tie.

If they have a tongue tie can they latch at all? She has latched twice in a week but doesn’t stay on for long.

@peachypetite I think it depends on severity of the tie. My son had a really long tie, from the tip right back (this was 16 years ago and they wouldn't snip it on the nhs). He ended up bottle fed as he became severely dehydrated at a few days old.
My daughter born this year had a posterior tie. It look like latch was ok but she wasn't gaining weight and feeding was very painful. Tie has been snipped and lactation as consultant was able to advise on some new positions to try.

I have details of someone in the South East of UK that I can pass on if you are in this area at all? She did a full assessment before advising on the situation and it was up to us to decide to have it snipped. She has also been there to help with a feeding plan and any advice we needed

OP pumping volumes increase as you do it more so 60ml is ok! I take it you have a very high quality double pump?

To maintain/increase supply you really need to pump once in the night hours acc to Kellymom as you would be feeding then. I pumped every night at 5am when I was exclusive pumping with DD1. That was part of the reason I decided not to do it again for DD2.

KellyMom has a lot of info on pumping if you do go down that route.

DD2 has a tongue tie and she could latch. Not a good latch and it was bloody agonising for me but she could drink her fill

Please don't get upset OP. Whatever happens, it's ok! Breastfeeding can be very very tricky.
Glad at least you are here on MN and supported!

The pressure is immense. Even the language people use. We had an appt yesterday and the midwife said “are you breastfeeding” - not: how are you feeding her. For a new, sleep deprived mum that’s enough to make you want to burst into tears on the spot. Yes I have been pumping in the early hours to try and take advantage of the prolactin. Thanks all for your support.

This sounds really stressful. This article is good and phoning the national breastfeeding helpline might be helpful too.

www.emmapickettbreastfeedingsupport.com/twitter-and-blog/when-baldy-doesnt-want-your-tit-newborn-breast-refusal

Private practitioners who can tackle tongue tie:

www.tongue-tie.org.uk/find-a-practitioner/

Don't worry about the midwife, OP. She was probably just reading off a tick box form that had 'breastfeeding Y/N' so phrased it like that.

I had exactly this with DS2, just refused to latch at all. It was tongue tie with us. We paid to have it dealt with privately when he was 8 days old and he was then able to latch with nipple shields. Weaned him off the shield over a couple of weeks and he was ebf thereafter. Still going at 18 months.

I was pumping every 3 hours until we got him sorted, it was really hard going. I would definitely get baby properly assess Ed for tongue tie if you can.

You're doing really well, look after yourself.

@peachypetite I'm with you there - I've been horrified by the pressure to breastfeed from all angles and the feeling of guilt if you don't (because you're struggling). I've found it really hard with my tongue tied baby and we've been topping up with formula, and I feel like I'm being judged every time I tell a midwife or anyone really. I know it's good for me and the baby, but if you're really struggling it's not helpful to be pressured into it.

I am dreading my appt with the health visitor for some reason I feel like I’m going to be judged

Your health visitor shouldn't judge you. Your baby is loved and fed. She is even getting some of your milk and you are clearly trying hard. She should be there to help you not judge. Hopefully she can.

That's a shame about the shields. Mine was quite good at knocking them flying waving her arms around wanting milk now, but once she got one in her mouth it was fine.

@peachypetite

I am dreading my appt with the health visitor for some reason I feel like I’m going to be judged

The vast majority of babies in this country are formula fed. I highly doubt she'll judge anything- it's not at all unusual.

Bit of a more positive update - after a few days back when it took me forever to even get 20ml I’ve been pumping more frequently and my yield is going up! Baby has also latched a few times during the middle of the night using the biological nursing approach.

Honestly op, if you don’t end up managing it don’t beat yourself up over it. The nhs pressure (assume you’re in the uk?) is immense. Much better to have a happy mum and a fed baby.

Also it can take aaaages. Two tongue tie ops and three months for us, now he won’t take the bottle which is crap in other ways.

@peachypetite

Bit of a more positive update - after a few days back when it took me forever to even get 20ml I’ve been pumping more frequently and my yield is going up! Baby has also latched a few times during the middle of the night using the biological nursing approach.

Hurrah! Well done, OP. So glad to hear you've turned a corner. I've found that if you can persevere through the worst of it, breastfeeding tends to get easier. Here's hoping this holds true for you.

You need a 🥇for sticking at it. I was also dropping in to see how you are doing. I was thinking possible tongue tie then read the catch up posts and see some others wondering the same. Would be worth checking and you can ask for a second opinion if you need one. Breast is Best is a good book. I read it before my second child. No problems with him feeding unlike the first.

Just thought I’d update. Still pumping and it’s going well. She has formula at night but breast milk all day and evening. I’ve given up trying to get her to latch, it was making me too sad and stressed. While I never even considered pumping and bottle feeding breast milk as an option before having her, it’s actually working well for us and means I don’t have the full responsibility of feeding.

Good for you. I'm glad you've found your way and stopped pressurising yourself to do something different. I hope you're enjoying your time with your DD and ready for your first Christmas together as a family of 3.

Just thought I would update this for anyone else. It turns out the reason baby couldn’t latch was a tongue tie. I’m frustrated it wasn’t picked up earlier. Have been breastfeeding fine with nipple shields this week.