I want to stop breastfeeding toddler but it's impossible - help! (long sorry)

[Jekyllywoo]

dd is 19 months - addicted to 'mi-mi'- breastfeeds morning, lunch and loads at night but also at varying points in the day if she is tired or fed or just fancies it. I have been happy to demand feed and feed her off to sleep, it has suited us a family until now but in the last week things have changed.

She used to wake around midnight, have a quick 10 mins feed and straight back to sleep - it didn't really bother me, she would usually sleep till 6ish. Now she wakes, feeds but is wide awake so gets all of the let-down milk quickly then just hangs on tight kind of chewing my nipple - she is not sucking any more and it is excruciating. I can't let her go on like that so take her off the breast and she goes ape. Instant screaming - dh held for an hour and half of screaming - he walked, sang songs, put her in the sling etc. She vomited phlegm 3 times (she always produces phlegm and then vomits it up clear and stringy when she cries for more than a minute or two). So after an hour and half of crying - at 1.30am, I fed her anyway!! She woke this morning all puffy eyed and has been grumpy all day as she's so tired.

What the hell do I do? I cannot have her using my nipple as a chewy toy - (yes she does have molars coming through but teething gels etc don't make any difference).

How do I get her to sleep without having my nipple in her mouth? She is capable of crying for hours and won't give up - and this is whilst being cuddled in her daddy's arms. I will not do controlled crying - have tried all of Elizabeth Pantley's gentle withdrawing of the nipple stuff, she just goes ape.

Also, I have guilt issues - dd has cerebral palsy and some days her life is pretty crappy -she is incredibally attached to me as I am her 'legs' and the one who carries her everywhere. I am her world and breastfeeding is so much more than food for her as I'm sure you all now. Breastfeeding is such a big comfort for her and I wish I could carry on but I need to get to the stage where someone else can settle her off to sleep occasionally or my nipples will fall off.

Does anyone have experience of a toddler with such an attachment to breastfeeding? What do I do? I hate seeing her so upset, it feels like torture.

I can't really help, but I do know how you feel. DD2 was 2 on Sunday. Still BF in the same way your DD is. I stopped BFing her in the night at 17 months (she was waking 4 or 5 times a night) by picking her up every 5 minutes, cuddling her and putting her down. She did scream, but not for longer than 25 minutes, and only for 5 mins at a time without being cuddled. Took about a week for her to start sleeping through, and could put herself to sleep. Recently she started waking again in the night and I (foolishly) fed her quickly to get her back to sleep. Wakings went from one to five within a week! Had to do the pick up put down thing again. Screamed for 45 mins the first night, 20 the second, and has slept through again since then. I couldn't do controlled crying, but could manage this, because I knew that she knew I was there for her. Hope you manage to get it sorted.

Oh you poor thing - I really remember how hard this point was for me and dd. She was still feeding pretty constantly at 18 months..

I finally stopped night feeds by telling her that we weren't having milk in the night about twenty times a day (but reassuring her that she could still have it at bedtime and in mummy's bed in the morning.)
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I asked her if she would like a cuddle instead, and somehow she seemed to accept this as a valid alternative, I think because I'd named it (the cuddle) rather than just giving her one.

Then - and it did take a week - when she woke up, I'd go in and ask her if she wanted that cuddle we talked about. She'd say yes but then ask for milk and go crazy when I said no, but eventually the word cuddle seemed to calm her every time, and the length of time that took got less and less until I could just go in and pick her up for a bit and she'd fall back to sleep on me.

She immediately started (more or less) sleeping through btw. I was soooo proud of myself. She'd wake at 6 and come in with me for milk.

My dp didn't get involved while this night weaning was going on - partly because he was working 18 hr days and partly because it felt too cruel to remove both the bfeeding and the mummy.

And actually tbh he still doesn't put the kids down - though now I get to sleep that doesn't seem such a hardship.\

Bon courage - it's bloody hard, and I can only imagine that your dd's cp makes things infinitely harder both physically and emotionally. Is it possible to flip the guilt and think how incredible that you've bf'd this long, what an amazing (and unusual?) start your dd has had?

My dd btw still asks for mummy milk 5 months after we (involuntarily - thrush in her mouth and my boobs, yuck)stopped. But it's usually with a kind of playful interest rather than upset.

Anyway, thinking of you.

Thanks Saggars - good to know my dd is not the only one who is so attached to the breast. You see I could do 25 mins of crying with settling every 5 mins - but screaming full throtal for an hour and half whilst being cuddled is just awful.

one bad mother, you sounds like one good mother, thanks for the ideas.

thanks j!
Forgot to add that when it did get to the more than 20 mins of screaming despite being cuddled I would bring her down and put nursery rhyme dvd on - just couldn\t hack it for longer than that..

and although all the books say don't leave the room, I felt like after a certain point she'd forgotten how to stop crying and needed help. We'd stay down for 15 mins and then I'd say shall we go upstairs for a cuddle.. then stroke/sing back to sleep.

TBH|it was all totally chaotic and whatever worked on the day, with the basic idea of a cuddle instead of breast .. any joy last night?

How was last night? If it's any consolation, after me saying that DD2 had started sleeping through again, she woke last night and asked to be fed! Aaarghh! I picked her up and cuddled her. She screamed when I put her down, but only for a couple of minutes, then said she wanted water, which I gave her, and she went back to sleep. It wasn't all bad, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for tonight!

Last night was ok, she only woke at 1.30am and I was so out of it I brought her into bed and fell asleep feeding her. I woke up at 2.30am and she was still attached! It really made me smile about the taking downstairs for dvd's - there does come a point when as you say they have just got in too much of a state. That awful night put me off so much that I have to wait till I get brave again to try anything - but I am going to try the cuddles thing as she is able to understand that I think (even if she doesn't like it..). She has recentely cut down the amount of feeds - she used to have both sides at nap time and bedtime and take hours over it but now she has one side and is done in about 10 mins. (secretly hoping she will self-wean! yeah right, as if..)

Oh god, totally remember that feeling of just being so exhausted that all you care about is the next few minutes and whether they'll contain any sleep (for you) or not.

You know I said dp wasn;t involved? just remembered that, before I tackled the whole issue, he did a few mornings (getting up at 6.30 so that I could sleep till, say, 8) That extra hour and a half gave me the resources to deal with the night-time awfulness for a week. So maybe don't try anything dramatic until you feel like you've built up a tiny bit of sleep reserve?

Actually, it's only when you start to sleep for longer that you realize how heroic (heroine-ic?) you've been to keep loving/caring/wiping on a couple of hour's sleep at a time.

The fact that I;m remembering this in dribs and drabs says so much about how I felt at the time. In the twilight zone.

Self-weaning - naah. But- I do remember that like you say, bfeeding started to feel more symbolic than physically vital.. and that's why I tried to make the cuddle thing like a symbol of something to want/me loving her/a treat. Make any sense?

thinking of you.

You might think this is harsh, but I know of 3 Mums recently who weaned their toddlers by putting marmite and garlic on their nipples. The toddlers didn't like the taste so stopped feeding. All three said it worked.

Blimey mimizan! Did they say whether the babies were upset/betrayed/panicked by this? or did they just accept it as a new reality, and deal with it?

My dd loves marmite, olives, everything! I would have ended up with chili sauce on my nips before it worked!

i found that getting dp to settle ds was key to sorting out all night feeding. why not set out some time when you will not be available and dh will then you can see what happens, say 1-5am. interestingly ds seems to have some scruples and if i am really very asleep leaves me alone. or maybe he gives up!

None of the children seemed particularly upset by it. They just tasted it, didn't like and toddled off to do something else. It didn't seem long before they stopped trying to feed.

mimizan that is barbaric.

why not bung some marmite and garlic on the top of the next thing you eat without telling you and see whether you toddle off happily afterwards.

At the moment dh is under too much pressure at work, often has long days driving so whilst he does help out I can't get him to do whole nights. I think if I'm honest I don't want to stop totally I just want her to be a bit more reasonable. I don't think marmite would put her off she is such a breast feind and tbh I wouldn't want to upset her that much - breastfeeding is on the whole a joy and privilege, I just need to get to a place which is a bit more comfortable for both of us.

Do you really think it's barbaric?

I suppose it depends how desperate you are to stop feeding. One of my friends was woken up about 6 times a night with her 18 month old who just wanted to breastfeed. She also had a 5 year old with severe eczema who woke frequently, as well as an 8 year old. She has a particularly unsupportive husband. She was desperate to stop feeding as she was completely shattered and becoming depressed. TBH I think she did really well to breastfeed as long as she did.

Sometimes you have to make choices for the good of the whole family. I don't think my friend's behaviour was barbaric.

I don't think it's barbaric just don't think that it would work for my dd who is very determined. You do what you have to do for your family as you say.

Jelly - totally agree, that's what i would have wanted too if the matter hadn't been taken out of my hands. It is a privilege and a pleasure, and I miss it dearly.

So you're right, you just need to get the nights sorted out. As I said, even if your dh was not equally exhausted, I don't think it's fair to suddenly remove yourself, as well as your bosoms!

But maybe, despite his long hours, he could give you just one extra hour in the mornings for a couple of days in a row, so that you could get the courage to try again?

I think he would let me have the odd lie in but to be fair he is pretty good and let's me a have a nice long nap with dd on a Saturday afternoon!

Hi All, I'm new here. I'm Sharon, 41 years old in Brisbane Australia. I have a 7 1/2 girl year old and 22mth old boy. I have ALWAYS had problems with my babies sleep. First one wasn't BF for long but Thomas is still BFing. He was waking 6 times a night until a couple of months ago. This is what we did after trying all the methods in books to no avail. My husband starting actually putting thomas to bed instead of me. I would BF him on the lounge instead of the bed. Then Ken would take him to read his books and put him to bed. No crying, nothing!!! Then we had the idea that Ken would go to him in the night instead of me as I caved in each time and fed Thomas. It worked!! Ken would be back in bed in less than 2 minutes. The next step was that Ken wouldn't even pick THomas up, just lie him down. Now Thomas doesn't wake up for BFing EXCEPT 5amish. We can't seem to stop this feed. I think he is either hungry or is just an early riser. Most of the time I can BF him for about 5 mins then put him back in the bed and he either plays or sleeps (not sure) until about 6am or earlier.

Well, I do want to stop BFing (I think)but I'm with all of you - it's SOOOOOOOO hard to say no. THomas feeds during the day when he wants it. I don't offer but I don't refuse. I am my own worst enemy. Thomas goes tochild care 2 times a week and doesn't need me then so why is it when I am around he needs it. Have resolved to have him off the booby by Xmas but still not sure of my strategy. Any ideas?

thanks, glad to have found you all.
Sharon

Hi all again, forgot to mention this tip.

When I put Thomas to bed now, I always BF at the beginning of the sleep routine. NEVER at the end. If he asks for booby when I am putting him in the cot, I always suggest a "sleepy by cuddle" on my shoulder. He has come to accept this as the alternative. If he refuses it, I put him down and walk out. He usally only cries a short time. If it is for too long, Ken goes in and it is all over.

Jekyllywoo - so you can add one more to your list, I'm also in the midst of trying to convince my 21mo dd to stop bf at night. She recently(last 3 or 4 months I think) started sleeping through most of the night most of the time but when she does wake, she throws a fit if I won't give her the boobie. I've started telling her that the boobie is asleep (she replies - "wake" to which I say, "no, can't wake. in the morning") That seems to work at least some of the time. Also, I think you can try to talk to her about not chewing on the boob. When she chews, remove the boob and say "no chewing. be nice to the mi mi. gentle" or something of the like and let her have another go. Repeat until she stops chewing. My dd went through a biting phase and we worked our way out of it with that method. Just had to be consistent.

Good luck. About the guilt - you've managed to keep going this long. If you decided to stop you shouldn't feel guilty. Course, as someone who also feels horrible about refusing the boob at times, I know that is easier said than done.

Hello jelly - hows it going?

craftylam, you're so right about the bfing at the beginning not the end of the routine.
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I think one difficult problem is when the men are under horrible work pressure and you just can'\t ask them to step in..

I remember when things were at their absolute worst, dp was working on the computer till 2am and, even at 18 months, dd was waking at at 2.45, and then would wake every hour till 6 am. AAAAAAAAAgh.

So of course I would bring her in with us, but would then not sleep rfrom 2.45 bcs she would attach every ten mins or so..

I'm very sad in many ways to have stopped bf-ing (though going to 22 months wiht both kids is something I'm definitely proud of and really enjoyed (on the whole)

But though little daughter still wakes up sometimes, I don't miss really sleeping only 3 hours a day..!

Hi everyone - thank you for all your messages and ideas. I think the idea of breastfeeding at the start of the bedtime routine is a really good idea, I just feel too tired to try anything new at the moment.

But...last night I did manage to get her to sleep without of a feed... kind of. But it was hell.
11pm- wake up, quick feed - dd squirming and kicking so take her off (she is suffering from tummy pain with constipation but her squirming makes my nipple hurt) - dd cries so I cuddle her 5 mins then like a fool give her the other breast. Same thing happens.

11.45pm - leave her watching baby tv as I still have to finish tesco shop on-line and am also need to be away from her a bit.

12am - up to bed, dh tries to cuddle her - she screams, vomits 3 times.

12.45am - I take over, she stops crying eventually but it now wide awake, I do that rocking and singing thing where you are stood up but actually asleep like a zombie.

1.30am - dd closes her eyes finally.

1.45am - I try to put her down - she wakes up screaming, eyes wide open. dh cuddles her on his chest.

2am - dh rolls dd off his chest and she stays asleep.

5am - dd wakes up, I feed her because at this point I just need her to sleep.

6am - dd1 -aged 3 comes into the room and is up for the day. .

So I guess to a degree I won that battle because she did eventually falls asleep without my boob in her mouth but now I feel so tired I can barely function let alone look after a 3 year old and 19 month old. I think it's not just being up late, it's the stress of hearing someone you love scream for hours.

Also yesterday we saw the paediatrician who identified that dd has general weakness in her trunk. She feel this is secondary to her cerebral palsy and it may be a hip problem - so we had x-rays yesterday and are booked in for an MRI in a few weeks. So now I have another thing to worry about - and who knows if she sometimes wakes in pain with her hips? I know she gets tummy pain cos she's so constipated all the time.

I just feel totally flat today, I'd better get off the computer now and look after dd1 who is on her 2nd episode of Dora the explorer.

Oh god, jellykwoo, I really do feel for you.

But you did do it - she did go to sleep off the breast.

I'm going to give this more thought later when not working, but I really hope your day is bearable.

BTW 2 episodes of Dora is nothing - nothing I say!!

DS once watched 2 and a half hours of tv in a row, then an hour break for food, then another 2 hours. IT was that, or a breakdown.

Plus he had to wear ear defenders (like road-menders wear!) to go to sleep - still does sometimes - because we live in a 2-bed house..

Thinking of you.

jekyllywoo, I meant of course. der. Think I've done that b4, sorry.