Do you persevere with the virtual (that's what it says on the tin) breastmilk?

[AutumnLeaves]

What if you would have like to have breastfed, but decided it wasn't working for you.

So then you put baby on a formula milk, baby is happy, feeding well putting on steady weight. But then you decide to change the milk because you've been recommended another brand that is vitually the same as breastmilk, so they say.

You try it, baby is not happy, being sick, having runny poos, not settled. Do you go back to the 1st formula brand? Or do you persevere with the virtual breastmilk?

Breastfeeding wasn't working out, but the baby was thriving on formula. Mum felt bad that the baby wasn't breastfed. It's the mum who needed the support here, not the baby.

But rather than trying to make it up to the baby by trying to give her the 'next best thing to breastmilk' (which we all know doesn't exist), maybe mum should try to make it up by giving her the next best thing to breastfeeding, ie skin-to-skin cuddles while bottlefeeding. Even, if she wants to, letting the baby latch on to her breast and suckle - without worrying about milk intake.

The thing is , if formula isn't the next best thing to breastmilk (obviously, breastmilk is THE best thing to give your baby), then what is the best thing to give a baby that is not breastfed? BTW, I would stick with whatever suits the baby, and ignore the HV, they all say such different things.

Of course the next best thing is formula, hazyjane - no-one would say otherwise. Formula is a perfectly acceptable way of feeding a baby, and the only alternative to breastmilk.

But it's not breastmilk, it doesn't have the same benefits of breastmilk, and the issue here is that women are being conned into thinking that a certain brand of formula (and I think you're probably right with your guess at which one, hunker) is the same as breastmilk.

Health care professionals are always peddling that particular myth because the company's marketing hype is so effective, and it's harmful to women like AL's SIL who are being made to feel guilty twice over - firstly because she could not breastfeed, and secondly because she is being pressurised into giving a formula which does not suit her baby.

And all because of marketing hype.

AL, can you point your SIL in the direction of MN in general, and this thread in particular? She'll find plenty of support here to do what's right for the baby.

I didn't mean that formula is not an adequate substitute for bm. Of course it is - otherwise probably half of us wouldn't be around to talk about it - but it is undoubtedly inferior. And the mum's distress at not breastfeeding is being taken advantage of, so that she is being made to feel that she must find a better formula otherwise she's failing her child again. But is there really such a thing?

All formulas are really much of a muchness...some babies do better on one brand than another, some babies don't seem to be bothered which brand they have. Claiming that a particular brand is comparable to breastmilk is taking advantage of the mum's distress, instead of supporting her in her choice to formula-feed.

If anyone is interested you can see the advertising advice that SMA give to HCPs here

They sponsor study days.
Why am I not surprised?

Cow&Gate and Aptamil also have HCP advice sites but for members only. Tempted to register to see what they have to say, but I'm sure it will only enrage me.
And it goes without saying that ff is sometimes the only way and noone should feel bad if so - but the blatant promotion is appalling.

I had a big do with C&G about one of their films on website which states the baby..'might not need breastmilk any more'

Ooooh aaaarrrrgggghhhh. Nice one though, did it get removed?

Doubt it.Haven't looked for ages.
(Althoguh it wasn't there last time and when i rang to ask why,they offered (nay begged) me to accept a fredd dvd.

Little Johnny it was called.
Utter shit all of it.

'let baby feed as often as they want without falling asleep at the breast' well oh deary me dd wouldn't have slept at all in her first 6 months if i'd followed that nugget of SMA advice..

'eat and drink regularly, keeping meals healthy and simple...' quavers and chocolate no good for breastfeeding then? no wonder dd was wasting away on the 91st centile then. thank goodness for SMA's useful advice. wtf is a 'simple' meal? gruel?

They spout some absolute tripe don't they?

How the buggery are you meant to stop them falling asleep at the breast then?

Poke them? Stop them before they have finished feeding?

I hate to say this of advice given by a formula manufacturer, but not letting the baby fll asleep on the breast is valid advice, at least for the first weeks. I let my first feed as sleepily as he wanted and he dropped from 8lb10 at birth to 7lb7 over two weeks - at which point, under pressure from the midwife, I began the slippery slope of formula top-ups. Of course what I needed was breastfeeding support, but that's a different matter. With my 2nd and 3rd I knew not to let them fall asleep and I pestered and poked them, undressed them even, to keep them feeding. And successfully breastfed them.

PrettyCandles, what you are saying does not apply generally. A baby who is not doing well at the breast may try to conserve energy by dropping off to sleep. A baby dropping that much in weight over two weeks is not doing well (and your postnatal care must have been poor for this to happen without anyone noticing ) ....but generally speaking, babies do not need to be prodded awake in order to prolong the feed

It was the same with all three of mine, Tiktok. In the early weeks they all stopped feeding if they fell asleep at the breast.

AL, this is a sad situation for your SIL and the HV is not helping at all. What your SIL really needs to feel right now is that ffing is going well and that is doing the right thing for her baby. By complicating the issue the HV is making her feel, yet again, that she has 'failed' at bfing and now at ffing too. Poor woman.

I am not surprised at this belief in advertising anymore - feel like we're fighting a losing battle. I was having a conversation about how people don't think that formula is made from cow's milk (in a 'can you believe it' way) and my friend (ffing after many probs with bfing to be fair) said "Is it?'. She is a very intelligent woman usually.

Not doubting you, PC....but as a generality, it is normal, natural and fine for babies to fall asleep at the breast and prodding/poking/blowing/changing/jiggling isn't needed

For the first week or so, mothers can be encouraged to look for signs all is well with the breastfeeding - lots of soft, yellow poo by about day 5; effective transfer of milk shown in the way the baby attaches, sucks and swallows; frequent, eager feeds day and night; maybe even a weigh-in or two as long as it is done accurately. There is normally no need to be concerned at all if a baby falls asleep after a good, effective feed. Falling asleep instead of a good, effective feed is a different matter.

LL, I sometimes do a little experiment and I just ask people what they think formula is made of...I would say about 50 per cent don't know or have some crazy notion that it is something to do with dried human milk, and as you say, these are generally people who are pretty well informed in other areas of their lives.

Yes Tiktok, when I was told this was the case in my LLL training I thought it was an exaggeration but it isn't is it!?

I also still know women who says things like 'when I had to have a section I just knew I couldn't even try bfing as it would've been so difficult'....makes me so . I guess it's the power of urban myths.

Personally I would avoid anything new just on the basis of not allowing my baby to be a guinea pig. They recently recalled a whole lot of new formula from NZ and Australia because some bright spark formula company took some research where they had found something in breastmilk that was good for the baby and then they stuck it in their formula without extensive testing. And it turned out it gave some babies runny poos etc.

Dried human milk...?
Mind you, I have friends who live on a not-very-nice housing estate, and one of the women there actually thought my pg friend was joking when she said she was going to breastfeed. She had never seen anyone do that before - I provided a demonstration with dd and was asked how I managed if I wanted to go out. Dd was 3 weeks old at the time...

poppynic, I think what you are referring to is the fact that NZ and Aus have not yet approved the sale of formulas with prebiotics, because the standards bodies there are unconvinced by the research that these additions are safe or effective. It's certainly the case that formulas with these additions in have been noted as causing runnier poo. I don't think they actually recalled them - they just have not permitted their sale. At least that's my understanding.

This must be very irritating to the formula manufacturers. I agree with what you say - I feel uncomfortable about novel ingredients in formula as well.