Extended bfers, reassure me!

[Lovage]

My NCT class met up yesterday for the first time for about 6 months and I was made to feel a complete freak because I'm still bfing DS at 15 months.

I had three separate conversations where it came up and each time the person referred to that TV programme with the 8 year old still bfing. Now while I couldn't draw an absolute line where my son would be too old to bf, I do think bfing a 15 mo is a bit different from an 8 year old. It's hardly extended at all, in my book. And they kept asking was it just for comfort, with an implication that if so, it was invalid. What's this 'just'?! The world can be an overwhelming place when you're 15 months and anything I can do to make it feel safer and happier for him I want to do.

I wish I'd resisted the 'just for comfort' line as well cos that let them carry on with their conversations about how it's pointless once they're old enough to drink normal cow's milk. Then I could have pointed out that breastmilk is designed for babies but cows milk is designed for calves. Nothing wrong with giving that to a baby his age but it's just not true that there are no nutritional benefits over 12 months, as they all seemed to think. But I'm crap in these sort of situations and just shriveled up into my shell (especially as I was bfing DS during some of these conversations).

And they kept saying things like 'once they're old enough to ask, they're too old'. I think they meant 'talk' which DS isn't doing yet, but he clearly asks (lifts up my top and gives a particular cry) and why is it so wrong once they can ask? Surely it's good for children to have things that they want (as long as it's not bad for them)

Actually, I think that might be the nub of the disagreement. I think they think it is bad for DS cos it's encouraging him to stay dependent and baby-like and (probably) smothering him with my needs. They think bringing up children is about controlling and training them in order to make them independent. But I think it's about loving them and making them feel safe so that they'll want to go out into the world independently of their own accord. And responding to his cues, which are clearly that he is in no way ready to give up bfing.

Sorry for the rant. Although I'm sounding quite clear about what I'm doing here, I am actually feeling quite undermined and positioned as all sorts of horrible things.

I am so disappointed in my NCT class, I always came away feeling undermined and judged and I had such high hopes. Ah well, at least I have mumsnet!

Well done for carrying on so long, dont listen to them, it still has benefits, and not just immunity/vitamins/fat etc, its emotionally beneficial for both you and him.

you carry on until you and ds want to stop, dont listen to anyone.

cx

Yep, I've been gutted at the responses of otherwise pro-bf people I know to the idea of bf post 6mo really, 12mo max .

And, yes, that programme has a lot to answer for. It always comes up. As does that evil "bitty" Little Britain sketch. Yaaaaaaawn.

Where exactly does this idea of "they're too old when they can ask for it" come from? My mum says this and she's sooo pro-bf.

I don't feel that I can feed in front of most of my friends now. I pointed this out to a couple of them when they were making comments about bf an older baby/toddler/teenager/pensioner ffs and they backtracked "oh it's not the same" but couldn't tell me exactly when it would become unacceptable and they would start judging me. Very sad.

Yep, been there, done that. I eventually discovered a La leche league group near me for extended feeders and went along when ds1 was about 18 months. It was great to meet other extended feeders - well worth checking out to see if there is a group near you. (They have a useful website with some good quotes on it and useful material.) I went on to feed until my dss were 3 and 3.5, because it was right for us, with no support for me from family or immediate friends.

I believe the World Health Organisation says that 4 is the average age for babies to be bfed across the world.

I also believe I've read that at 4 most toddlers start to self wean. (I decided I couldn't hang on that long, and made 3.5 my deadline, but since he's turned 4 my ds2 has stopped asking, so there could be something in that.)

I rarely came up with a good answer for others either, although occasionally remembered to grin and say "Well it's better for them than a donut or a can of coke, isn't it?!"

Best of luck. Keep on doing what is right for you. (And by the time they are at school everyone will have forgotten about it anyway.)

Lovage i think they must have been feeling guilty for stopping feeding themselves.

not that it is any excuse, but my friend who is shockingly unsupportive of my feeding ds at 2.5 has had a lot of issues with motherhood, bf and sleeping. she's a good enough friend that i told her to shut up rather than never speaking to her again, but in your case i would mentally close the door on those fools and have no further contact.

Gosh, what a crap reception from an NCT group, of all things. Have you spoken to the leader about it? Maybe you could get someone from La Leche League or a bfing councillor in to give a little talk to the group about the benefits of extended feeding?

Seriously, I think it might be an idea to make it clear to the group that their attitudes have upset you - partly because I expect that they would be shame-faced if they knew this, and it might make them think twice about what they say to the next extended (or full-term, as I prefer) bf-er they meet.

You could argue their points one by one, if you can be bothered - google kellymom for a great website that includes info about the benefits of bf-ing for toddlers and mothers - but why should you? You just want to do what feels right for you and your baby.

La Leche League also run groups if you want to go somewhere where you can feed without feeling like a freak - again, try googling.

this is an article by the woman who was feeding the eight-year-old. She comes across as being intensely sane, I think.

kellymom on feeding past the first year

It's funny isn't it - you'd think that NCT people would be among the most supportive, but my group also clearly think I'm a bit odd for still doing it, though I don't think they'd go so far as to say anything overly negative to my face! Actually, one of them did comment on how my DD doesn't seem to get ill as much as the rest of them, and put it down to bf.

You're certainly doing the right thing continuing for as long as you and your ds are happy with it.

Why not drop the rest of your group an email with a bit of info about breastfeeding a toddler, with some pertinent links, and say that you thought you'd send it as you weren't sure that you really explained to them properly why you were still doing it when you met.

NQGU - I believe that it's 'normal' for toddlers to self-wean anywhere between 2 and 4 years. I can't quote you a source for that, other than Franny, but she's pretty well researched on the subject, so definitely believe it. Of course some will self-wean earlier, and some later, but the 8 year old on the extraordinary breastfeeding programme is certainly the exception.

My ds is a couple of months short of 4, and is self-weaning. Well, actually, I think he has weaned - he hasn't fed for two or three weeks now, and before that the gap was just a few days or so between feeds, so I think that's him done.

I was so proud of myself that we went until he self-weaned. It was right for him and it was right for me. The fact that it wasn't right for other people did sometimes make me feel awkward, but I got quite militant about it sometimes. Obviously over the last few years he has only fed at home, so it didn't come up as a subject as people just assumed that I must have stopped.

You will be surprised at how many "secret" feeders there are out there. It's sad that this is the way it seems it has to be, but ultimately it's your choice to feed and it's your choice as to how much you want people to know.

For the record, to counter the argument about it just being "for comfort", I strongly believe that it has far greater benefits. My ds has never been to the doctors. He hasn't had conjunctivitis, an ear infection, a fever, an upset stomach, etc, etc, etc. I firmly believe that it is bfeeding that is responsible for his excellent health as all his peers seemed to have had all the usual illnesses, but he never did.

that these people feel free to undermine you. No, extended bfing isn;t the norm in our society but the recommendation is to bf until 2 years. I have to admit that pre-kids I was a bit about bfing older children (e.g. 3 or 4 years old) but now I can see that it's perfectly normal! Well done to you for sticking to your guns

I bf my dd till she was 2, and she is now an incredibly independent 8 year old. She is happy for me to leave her with grandparents for up to 2 weeks, she has had sleepovers wtih friend from the age of 4, she has travelled all round the world with me.
So the idea that extended bfeeding makes children super-dependent and clingy is balderdash.

I think the opposite actually.

What a wonderful thread, I am happy to have clicked on it and reading those links PW has inspired me to BF Ds2 for longer than the 16 months I managed with Ds1.

I really agree with the idea that babies not being bfed can lead to problems later on...it makes sense to me. My sister was fed for 10 months, back in the 1970's, while I got 10 days...mum was bullied into stopping by dad's relations, whom they were living with and didn't approve.

I have had eating issues since I was about 8, including prolonged Anorexia in my 20s. My sister has never had a problem with food.
I wonder if there is a link?

FlightAttendant

When I joined MN, I was partly looking for advice about weaning my DS2, who was just 2 then. I didn't really want to wean him, but I felt that I ought to because I didn't know anyone else feeding a child as old as mine and I felt freakish. Thankfully, Franny and a few others rumbled me very early on and gave me lots of support and good advice, including the kellymom link - and I'm still feeding him now, and he's nearly three, and I feel so much more confident about what I'm doing. Also, more and more women have 'come out' to me as being extended feeders - possibly because I'm one of the few extended feeders who brazenly feeds her toddler in public?

Newborn babies ask for it, for goodness' sake. To the best of their ability.

DD (20 months) has just been breastfeeding her doll. Now that's cute enough to make anyone want to carry on!

Also had some questions from some of the women in my NCT group, along the lines of "was I STILL breastfeeding at a year and when was I going to stop?"
I gave them such a frosty look and a grumpy response that they never asked again.
Please ignore them, it may not be the norm in the UK but that doesn't mean much. Women all over the world feed their children for much longer than we do here and I tried to remember that when I was feeling like the only extended breastfeeder around...
Also second that its very good for health, DS1 self weaned at 2 ish when I was pregnant with DS2 and he is rarely ill and has never been properly ill, unlike his friends who are mostly formula fed (or breastfed for 3 months or so).

Aw, thanks everyone.

I'm really disappointed about my NCT group (sorry, shouldn't have said class - we used to be a class antenatally, now we're just an occasional social group - very occasional as far as I'm concerned!). Like other people said, I hoped it would be a source of other home-birth type friends for birth and attachment-ish parenting for afterwards. But it's just not been. The teacher was fine (not present yesterday) and I know other people in other groups that are more like I wanted. I think I just got unlucky.

"newborn babies ask for it" - quite! Yesterday I almost began thinking that I could have weaned DS when he was about 9 months (not that I thought of doing it at the time) becuase he only began lifting up my top etc. at about 10 months. But I realised that was bad reasoning - what changed was that he became able to express his desire to nurse. Before that he still wanted to, he just couldn't express it so clearly. And talking is only an extension of that.

So yeah, thanks!

Lovage - had exactly the same problem. I had to "dump" my NCT group very early on about 12 weeks - I was the only one not FF a feed at night and not giving a dummy. They just made me feel a freak and basically I felt more stressed. I do think they attract the type that follow the mainstream (at least in my part of west London). They all wanted to go out drinking and having dinner out when the babies were 5 weeks old, all I wanted to do was stare at my baby and feed her.

I'm still BFing at 11 months and plan to continue through the winter at least. I do want to ttc again in January and this may impact how long I feed. I don't have time on my side to ttc no.2 unfortunately otherwise I would wait until DD self weaned.

CSWS - at the LLL support day the other weekend there was a little girl there who was carrying her dolly round in a ring sling and breastfeeding her. was so cute! the weird thing, i've mentioned it to a few people in rl and they've given me ever such odd looks, till i pointed out that it was much more normal than Baby Annabel who is unnaturally bottlefed

you're doing a fabbo job, Lovage! i've had a few comments (from MIL, mainly) about whether i'm going to be feeding ds till he goes to university, cause, y'know, he's going next week, so i'm going to have to stop soon! a good response i've heard to "When are you going to stop feeding that baby?' is "In about 5 minutes, when he's had enough," accompanied by a beatific smile!

(have to add, i don't - and won't - term myself myself an "extended feeder", as ds is only 9 months, and the recommendation is at least 2, or until they self-wean)

Find some other friends - you don't need these people. I found the NCT very uninspiring as well. LLL is a good place to start, or begin your own group?

Read your OP and a few others. Ah well lots of us are wierd then, eh?? I bf DS1 & DS2 for a year each and DD for 19 months or so, at 21mo she has pretty much given up, sort of did it herself with mutual agreement. Do it as long as you both want to - and i too fail to see how your people can see a link between 15mo baby and 8yr old on telly

I've just had a conversation with my NCT group. A couple of us are still feeding at 12 months but it looks like I might be the only one who intends feeding beyond that.

I've decided to just go along with the flow (ha ha!) and feed until my son decides to give up for himself. I love it when he makes it clear he wants some milk as he isn't exactly subtle about it. I do get the odd comment now but I'm very thick skinned and shrug it off. The more people that know about it, the better, as far as I am concerned.

Duchess, I did that too. DS gave up at 20 months when I was 3 months pg, otherwise, I think we might have gone on for longer, but I don't actually class that as extended.

All my other NCT friends had given up well before me at about a year or less and I did get questions, but they weren't negative to my face - although some of them may have been negative behind my back! Especially as I was the only one to use real nappies and do BLW as well!

I think I'm just thought of as an 'odd ball', but I don't care.

Funnily enough I was just talking to my elderly grandmother on the 'phone and said we'd only given up a few months ago and she was pleased we'd carried on for this long - it was really refreshing.