Breast feeding hell. Please help.

[Freewanderer]

Long story short. Have been struggling for 8 weeks now to bf and am point of thinking of stopping. I have had to now introduce formula once or twice a day due to poor weight gain.
It’s the latch. Baby just can’t seem to do it! They all say no tie etc but feeding is always uncomfortable. It’s like my ds’ lower teeth are grating on my nipple. He’s also started making a clicking noise, which is relatively new. He makes the same noise when drinking from a bottle. We got off to a bad start due to neonatal jaundice needing treatment.
The reason I’m interested to see if anyone has an advice/ideas is that also, I have started getting weird ‘electric shock’ sensations randomly during feeds (at no particular point). I really don’t want to stop but now there are no cafes to go to (thanks to covid), I’m at loss as what to do.
Thanks for any ideas. I must say, I have no issues with ff at all. I just can see that the closeness from
Bf is quite a unique experience and I don’t want to give that up yet.

Have you tried feeding laying down on your side on the bed? That's the only way I really got feeding going. I was too tense sitting up holding the baby, my back be neck hurt and I'm sure it made it all go wrong. When you're both laying down you are both supported and can relax.

Yes, and am just as hopeless! I’m starting to think it’s me now. I had so much trouble with my first child too. Thank u for the idea though.

Happy baby needs a happy mum. You've tried and there's no failure in stopping. X

Sorry you're having such a tough time with it OP. Obviously nothing wrong with ff as much as you need to for baby to stay healthy but if you want to keep going with bf I found this website an amazing resource:
kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

It sounds to me like you do have a latch problem - the clicking is a bit of a giveaway. I had a similar issue - latch seemed fine, no tongue tie, but DD obviously wasn't getting anything much. I combination fed for a few weeks, kept trying different positions, and also expressed to keep up my supply. Only just got her to bloody stop breastfeeding well over 2 years later! It can be done.
Good luck, and congrats on your sweet new arrival.

I was going to ask. Is 8 weeks a stupid amount of time trying to get a baby to latch well? Everyone seems to say most have mastered it by now. I’m not sure I can keep on with the pain and dread every 1-3 hours.

Good on you for sticking at it.
The clicking will be a bad latch-see if your midwife can pop in and assist with some techniques

The electric shock feeling might be thrush. Thrush on the tongue is painful for babies which makes it difficult to latch. Thrush tends to be passed back and forth between baby and breast.

The electric shock pain sounds like a symptom of thrush

Is baby making a big mouth for you? You have to be strict & wait for the big mouth every time. You also need to be sure your nipple is ending up in the soft part of baby’s mouth - no “lipstick” shape/blanching of nipple after feeds.

This is a fabulous video globalhealthmedia.org/portfolio-items/attaching-your-baby-at-the-breast/

LLL helpline might be useful?

Good luck it can be a bugger to get sorted but once you do it’s so worth it

Don't worry if you have to stop.

Best peice of advice I had was to not wait for them to latch, because they get more and more upset and your likely to just struggle through a bad latch. She said you see an open mouth shove as much nipple as you can in .

Sympathies, breastfeeding can be lovely but also hell on earth. What about the latch can't he do? Open wide enough? Stay put? The flipple is a good thing to google for getting a mighty wodge into an teeny mouth. The click might be the seal on the breast releasing, showing that the latch isnt quite right. If I were you I'd find a lactation consultant to do a Skype consultation to look at latching if you haven't already. Look at this kellymom.com/bf/concerns/child/clicking-when-nursing/. Once you've got latch sorted I wholeheartedly agree that lying down to feed is amazing, it means everyone gets more sleep!!

Yes I feel like that at the moment @cleowasmycat!

No, with ds it took ages.

Thrush can happen but I saw an IBCLC qualified lactation consultant who said it's usually just the symptom of a posterior tongue tie. It's hard to diagnose a posterior tie but it makes a HUGE difference if cut.

I had this with DD and struggled on, then saw the consultant with DS, had the tie cut and their was a massive improvement. Before DS would click, and the pain escalated to being like knitting needles being shoved through my breast at the start of each feed. I'd cry at the prospect of each feed.

Thank you all.
I did wonder about thrush but I don’t have any nipple (skin) changes? My ds has a minor white coating on posterior part of tongue but I’ve read that that can just be a film of milk? I’ve no clue

Nipple shields. The only way my baby could latch and they worked immediately. Gradually weaned off over time and she latches without. They were a lifesaver and I wish they'd been advised to me in hospital.

Thanks for the links.
I’ve tried shields and he absolutely goes ballistic

Do you have different types of bottles? Clicking is a sign of had latch ( which you know) but it might be learned from the bottle.

And to add to pp if you've got lying down sorted then try standing up feeding (one if mine liked that).

Shock is probably let down, which is good.

It took me 13 weeks to be fully pain free and for to drop the amount of formula I was supplementing. I had the exact same latch and weight gain issues as you. You really have my sympathy - I was determined to keep going but I nearly gave up several times. The pain in my nipples and shoulder blades was utterly excruciating.

I had loads of advice from various health care professionals, but the best was from our local feeding expert. She advised holding your baby like the bag of the bagpipes, ie completely supported in one arm. You need to be sitting fairly upright but with your shoulders relaxed. As you would expect the baby is on its side so it's face is looking at your boob, completely horizontal with your fingers supporting the baby's face. Put baby nose to nipple. DO NOT move the baby or your body/nipple/breast (this is critical). The baby will be forced to move it's head to reach your nipple, its chin will push into your boob next to your nipple creating a dent, the nipple will move into the top of the baby's mouth and create a really strong latch.

It doesn't sound very different to all the other advice I was given, the critical thing is the baby being horizontal and allowing it to find the nipple itself. As you've been breastfeeding for a while your baby will know what to do.

I really hope this works for you. It was a game changer for me.

I've been there unfortunately my DD wouldn't take a bottle so I ended up keeping going, I ended up feeding her until she was 2.

I would never normally say this but given the shortages will there be problems in getting hold of formula? I'd be give it a few more days although I'm a strong advocate for doing what's right for you so ignore me if it all gets to much.

I had problems with tongue tie with my DS I've just looked at his health book to see what advice there is written in there not much actually.

What I do remember is something i'd not been taught with the other to and that was to not assume your nipples point of sit centrally. When I was feeding him I was aiming him nose to nipple but not taking into account that they don't point forward. As soon as I got the hang of thinking of it that way the discomfort disappeared.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it well, I wonder if one of the support charities would do a video call with you.

The fact that his teeth are grinding on you makes me think his latch isn’t deep enough, definitely try the flipple technique. Does it start out painfree and get painful or is it painful the whole way through? If it’s painfree to start then gets painful I’d suggest his latch is changing while he feeds so take him off and put him back on again. Are you doing nose to nipple/waiting for a big mouth?

Check out milkmakingmama on Instagram for some amazing tips - she’s a fab lactation consultant.

Blimey loads of typos 🤦‍♀️

The different bottles. Just the avent and the one with the Lansinoh pump.
The clicking is getting worse. He’s not always clicked if I remember correctly.
It’s all so depressing. But then again, your right - maybe difficult to find more formula at present.
The bagpipes thing is interesting - I’ll give it a go.
Thank you

Always painful yes 😢

We had lots of problems getting feeding established and called the La Leche League helpline for advice (on the advice of mn) They were so great so do give them a call ❤️

DD clicked which I was paranoid about but she just kind of stopped one day, I didn't notice any difference in her latch.

If you need a break from painful feeds pump and give a bottle for a bit, there's no harm. And if I had my time again I wouldn't stress about the odd bit of formula here and there, supply issues shouldn't be an issue you if you're pretty much EBF at 8 weeks.

But remembered camilosane cream is brilliant for soreness. I just looked for some pictures online but can't it was a nearly four years ago now but I remember the support worker describing it as imagine you nipple centred in the baby's mouth which way should they line up. It may sound weird but one of my nipples points more to the side than the other and both are slightly downwards so I wouldn't start the baby in the same position as someone who has nipples that point upwards.

I really hope you get it resolved either my cracking breastfeeding or going to formula,