Join the campaigns to BF in Public and stop Formula advertising!!!!!!

[Difers]

I got this e-mail today and thought that some of you may be interested in supporting these campaigns

Dear Friend,

We have a short, but important window of opportunity to influence policy and implement two of the Breastfeeding Manifesto?s objectives. As a supporter of The Breastfeeding Manifesto I am writing to ask for your urgent help to influence two important proposed laws which could see the implementation of objective 5 and 7 of the Manifesto- if you act now. Visit www.breastfeedingmanifesto.org.uk and send the emails to the government ministers on the ?How You Can Help? page. It?s quick and easy!

Objective 5-Breastfeeding in public

Objective 5 of the Manifesto is: ?Develop policy and practice to support breastfeeding in public places.? The UK government has released The Single Equality Bill for consultation. This means that everyone including organizations and members of the public can submit their comments on this proposed new law. The Single Equality Bill covers a range of issues but one of its aims is to stop the discrimination against breastfeeding mothers in public. We are delighted that the government is finally addressing this issue. However, we feel that the bill as it currently stand is worrying; it only provides protection for those mothers who are breastfeeding a child up to the age of 12 months. By only protecting Mothers breastfeeding children under the age of 12 months the UK government is sending out a message that it is unacceptable to breastfeed a child over the age of one and therefore suggesting it is acceptable to discriminate against them. The World Health Organization recommends that babies are breastfed for two years or beyond and so we believe that the cap on 12 months could be damaging to children?s health. We need you to send the email at the bottom of this pagewww.breastfeedingmanifesto.org.uk/make_your_voice_heard_1.php to ask the government to change the proposed law to ensure all women are fully protected to feed their babies in public beyond their first birthday.

Objective 7- Advertising of Formula Milk

Objective 7 of the Manifesto is: ?Adopt the World Health Organization International Code of Marketing of Breast Milk Substitutes and subsequent relevant Resolutions.? The Food Standards Agency is currently consulting regulations for the advertising and promotion of formula milk. You may have read the recent press coverage and out cry surrounding OK, the model Jordan and SMA formula milk. It is this kind of promotion which we want to stop. However the proposed regulations would not cover this kind of promotion and so the regulations are inadequate for protecting parents and babies from the influence of formula-milk promotion. Parents need reliable information based on evidence, not commercial pressure from baby milk companies. Non commerical, independent information will benefit all parents including those who bottle feed. However, the proposed regulations are inadequate for the job of protecting parents and babies from the influence of formula promotion. Objective 7 of the Manifesto calls for the implementation of The WHO Code on the Marketing of Breast Milk Substitutes and it provides an excellent model for the law that is required. We need you to send the email at www.breastfeedingmanifesto.org.uk/make_your_voice_heard_2.php asking the Foood Standards Agenncy to go further than they propose to go.

It is only with your help and when we work together that we will be be able to influence the government and have lasting affect on children?s health.

I urge you to please visit this website and send the emails, your voice really matters.

Best Wishes

Alison Baum

Co-Founder and Spokesperson, The Breastfeeding Manifesto Coalition

it does impact on 'choice'

elsbelle, an independent website would be a great idea...I think...sadly, the different Formula companies aren't all that forthcoming to support this.
They WANT to advertise, not to advice, but to sell their product....afterall, they are not a charity, they are in the business to make money!
Like Tiktok said though, midwifes, etc...are actually allowed to give advice ont eh practicalities...however, I assume they are as badly prepared for this as they are to correctly support breastfeeding...! I will never understand why Health proffessionals that are the first contacts to new mothers do not get better training in infant feeding (breast and Formula feeding, I mean) surely this would make sense...

Suey, you really do NOT know any infant milks etc...
but, yeah, I suppose, if someone wants to find out what to feed their Baby, then, well, a trip to the supermarket and some label reading, etc...is not really to much to ask, really, is it? Not being sarky, just genuinely surprised, tbh.

Suey - genuinely interested here. You presumably want an ad that contains reliable information, plus the name of the brand, yes?

Well, you'll be lucky....because this is not what advertising is about.

Els, for more than 20 years there has been an internationally-agreed code of marketing of breastmilk substitutes, from the World Health organisation, supplemented with resolutions from the World Health Assembly.

This explains how manufacturers can market their product ethically, and inform mothers and healthcare professionals of their products.

Marketing is allowed under the code, but it is restricted, and its scope is defined. Manufacturers will still make a profit and mothers and healthcare professionals will still be able to find out about new products and so on.

The code charges government health departments with being the prime central source of information about infant feeding, and calls on them to ensure healthcare personel are informed and up to date, which seems to me to be fair enoug; there are checks and balances to ensure healthcare workers do not get incentives from manufacturers to induce them to recommend one brand over another.

full code is here

i would only expect the name of the brand from advertising and maybe the different types of formula they make

Thanks, suey.

So all you want from the advertising is the name of the formula and what type of formula it is?

So (for example), you want

HappiMilk Infant formula made from skimmed cows milk. For babies from birth.

And that gives you enough to go on, does it? No self-respecting advertiser is gonna be interested in an ad which leaves it at that.....where are the fluffy bunnies? Where is the meaningless slogan ('closest to breastmilk' - a variation of which phrase is used by all the manufacturers)? Where is the spurious health claim (actually illegal)?

And where are you going to do your research?

If all you want is a name, then Google is your friend.

Ok I am starting to see why you feel formula advertising should be banned. They are not being ethical and are about the money.

The let's be more offensive promoting BF. Why doesn't the Breastfeeding Manifesto Coalition lobby for more money to be spent on BF campaigns especially as most people feel advertising does sway people's choices.

I have never seen an NHS TV ad on BF. Why not? The only thing out there are those posters/leaflets (only ever seen in hospitals, surgery's etc). They are dated and not very sexy. It seems we need to change the perception of BF. Get some ads out there of a mother BF whilst getting a pedicure, BF and DH doing the cooking...modernise it and get it to appeal to the young and old. I never realised until I saw BR rates and opinions on MN how misrepresented BF and BF mothers are.

Maybe the Breastfeeding Manifesto Coalition should shift their focus a bit.

Start informing and taking on the formula companies head on. Make BF campaigns bigger, sexier, cooler (you know what I mean by that I hope) and better I say.

could I just defend hcps for a moment, the university that i work at has just been the first to gain unicef baby friendly initiative status in the uk. This means that all our midwifery and child health students receive infant nutrition training that meets the unicef baby friendly guidelines. Some of us are trying to improve education at the student level unfortunately this is not true everywhere but I do think that it is a bit sweeping to say all hcps are rubbish at providing feeding support

andie - the reason for the Unicef baby friendly training is because good infant feeding training is not and never has been routine for HVs and midwives. Where you are is the first - in 2007!! - to become accredited as a provider. You are a minority.

I have never said 'all hcps are rubbish at providing support' but I do think routine training is poor, and as a result, mothers cannot realistically expect their hcps to support them the way they should.

How can you disagree with that?

And we will never get anywhere if hcps deny the huge gaps in the training, and get hurt if it's discussed, and accuse people of saying things they didn't say

Elsbells, there are NHS ads for breastfeeding on TV, in many regions, and there are radio ads as well. You can see and hear examples here:
http://www.breastfedbabies.org/

You haven't read the Manifesto - it has all the stuff in about training and support, and calls on the govt to adopt the Global Strategy on breastfeeding which has all that in it.

Current DoH leaflets on breastfeeding are really nice, I think - with modern mothers and cute babies, in a zillion languages

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4084370

These initiatives are the result of many years of campaigning from breastfeeding supporters and volunteer groups, raising the profile of breastfeeding and showing how poor support and information can be.

The formula promotion campaign is only a part of this.

To imply - as you do - that the only thing people are lobbying for is a ban on promotion, and to say you only ever see dated leaflets, doesn't reflect the reality of the situation.

tiktok I wasn't referring to you I was referring to

however, I assume they are as badly prepared for this as they are to correctly support breastfeeding...! I will never understand why Health proffessionals that are the first contacts to new mothers do not get better training in infant feeding (breast and Formula feeding, I mean) surely this would make sense...

please do not attack me when I am not attacking you also if you read my post I do say

Some of us are trying to improve education at the student level unfortunately this is not true everywhere

some women receive very good support from hosptal based bf counsellors ours at the children's hosp where I work is a qualified lactation consultant these women however tend not to post as they don't need advice

anyway this is not what this thread is about and I am now going to step away

tiktok of course they are going to market it in the way that will best persuade you to buy it. I am not stupid. When did you last see an advert for shampoo for example that did not use a beautiful model? That does not mean that i think that one shampoo is better than another because of the advertising nor would it be the same for formula milk.
I think that the ban on formula milk reinforces that formula feeding is bad. You may think that that is a good thing. But i have known many women (I am a physio and they are often patients who will tell me things they don't share with others) who feel terribly, terribly guilty already that they have been unable to breastfeed despite their very best efforts. Don't they deserve to be reassured that they are not damaging their children forever?
The breast is best message is well and understood, everyone knows it. Improve BF teaching and support to help new mothers and improve BF rates. Don't make them feel even more of a failure than they already do. The ban on advertising does.

andie, I still don't know who you were referring to

But glad it wasn't me I certainly did not 'attack' you - blimey, as if!

suey - I know many women carry the sadness of not breastfeeding with them for a long time. But to say that somehow adverts for formula help with this is preposterous - if the adverts go, no one will miss them. They just won't be there!

Do you really think fluffy bunnies on a pack and spurious health claims really help someone who is breaking her heart over not breastfeeding?

And if she is using formula, she needs decent information about ingredients, preparation and safety.

I don't know what on earth is controversial about that.

Ads are there to sell more formula and to make money. They have no other purpose. They certainly can't be expected to act as some sort of consolation to sad mothers - that comes from decent non-judgemental support from their friends, family and health advisers.

Advertising of formula is not compatible with good public health or information for parents.

And I am still waiting to hear from you about why you actually find them personally useful, because you want to know the formula names so you can do your research....you can't really have been serious about that?

yes, i was serious. I know of no formula companies at all. I am PG for the first time. The only reason i have heard of sma is because of the furore over jordan.

And yes, i do think that the ban on formula advertising reinforces failure on women who have been unable to breastfeed.

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone wanted to breastfeed their child in front of me. The judgement of women who, through no fault of their own, have resorted to formula I do have a problem with. It seems very illiberal to me. That is why there is no way i will sign this petition.

I don't judge anyone who uses formula. Unlike you, I don't even speculate on whether it's through 'any fault of their own' - blimey, who on earth is going to work out if it's their 'fault' or not?!

The debate is about formula advertising, which you think has an important role in comfort and consolation, and which I say is there to make money for the manufacturers, at the expense of infant and maternal health.

The option to use formula will remain, whether ads exist or not.

I heard on Radio 4 that independent research has demonstrated that women exposed to adverts promoting formula antenatally are more likely to use formula. Unfortunately I do not have a link for this. Initally when I became interested in this topic I thought that adverts did not have an affect but I have changed my opinion. I think adverts have an effect but obviously more does need to be done in other areas aswell.

Tiktok, here is a wall. Would you like to bang your head against it?

I just had a look at the ads and the leaflet (I have used that one myself as a guide many times).

The ads are good but I have yet to hear or see them. I guess I am saying is that I want to see/hear more of them. Especially if it is true that " women exposed to adverts promoting formula antenatally are more likely to use formula" would in not work of too if they saw more adverts promoting BF? Would they become more likely to BF?

Adverts and promotion work
that's why they spend money on them
they don't just have spare money to get rid of
they know advertising works and probably have an estimate of return for each £ spent

x post elsbells
yes, i think you're right

Elsbells...sadly there is no one interested with money in marketing breastmilk.....because well...Breastmilk is free, no one sells is there is no market...obviously one could argue that money should be made available by teh NHS and I even agree, I think it would be good longterm investment if it meant numbers go up, and we may become a healthier nation, needing less of the NHS rescourses for diseases , etc...but when have they ever looked at long term solutions, sigh!
(By the way, I know that Breastfeeding alone is not going to make the Nation healthier, there are many other factors towards that that would also need tackling of course...before anyone jumps on me)

Andie, it is great news that they are starting to put more importance on teaching infant feeding, etc...to those that need to know about it...lets hope this will be further improved. I don't think anyone is having a go at HCP's as such, often it really isn't there fault, it just should be made a madatory part of them all, rather then one of those things that they may further develope with personal interest....iykwim...! Like Tiktok said, sadly your Trust is in the mimority. And I do realise that in general midwifes and Health visitors often do try their best...but it's really really sad that the main support often is only available through volunteer organisations. Honest, I was not attacking HP's, but I know it may have come across that way, so, I do apologise if I offended you!

Suey, banning formula advertising does not mean that people think that formula feeding mothers are doing wrong. Formula feeding mothers often feel guilty, well, those are usually those that really wanted to breastfeed though, and were not enabled to do so through lack of support, or were not able to do so, from a medical point of view, forinstance (medication, other medical problems)...Honest, banning Formula advertisment does NOT equal that at all.
BUt, I really can't believe that you don't know about different Formulas...o.k. when I had my first son I couldn't have told you any names of Brittish ones, but I certainly knew the german ones, which were, at the time , not available over here...oddly enough, when ds2 was born and by the time I switched him onto Formula, aptamil and hipp were available over here and I actually went for aptamil, even thoguh ds1 ended up being on Boots own...but when I foudn a brand I "knew" my loyalties sort of went straight there...another interesting thing...what with the link to the other thread...I felt so guilty to switch, as I had set out to breast feed him much longer , that indeed, the whole marketing of there being extra good things in aptamil (added fisheyes, apparently...does obviously talk about omega oils, I think...can't remember now....), which made me go for that, as it claimed being almost as good as breastmilk for brain devellopement...now, I may didn't necessarily believe that totally, but I wanted to....but I certianly was a classic example for brandloyalty...and I knew about aptamil and Hipp, because when I was little advertising Formula was still very much full on in Germany...! I suppose because I still remembered those brands from when I was little and seeing advertisement of it, etc...that possibly everyone does...my mistake though....

i have to say i don't think i knew any formula names before i became pregnant - i thought SMA made mashed potato as well

maybe you are all really young mums then...or maybe I am just old, lol...

3andnomore - you are right there is no money to be made on BF BUT the gov't puts shedloads of money behind campaigns such drinking and driving, drugs, heart disease and smoking. They don't make money either. BF should be up there with the heavy hitters.

In fact it NEEDS to be.