12 weeks and not getting better, I'm at the end of my tether, please help.

[daisyandbabybootoo]

Babyboo was 12 weeks on Tuesday. BF got off to a flying start and had settled after the first two weeks. I was feeling great about it as I didn't manamge with DS beyond 5 weeks.

After 4 weeks she started to get very clucky at the breast which has got steadily worse over time. I've had blocked ducts, mastitis, more blocked ducts. Two weeks ago I started getting shooting pains in my breasts towards the end of feeding, continuing for over an hour afterwrds and intermittently between feeds....pain shooting into my armpits. Was given thrush medication for me and baby last weekend and over this week the cluckiness has improved, but she is now fighting with the breast at every feed.

I manage to get her latched on ok, but as soon as i relax into the feed she shakes her head and either pulls abck or gets her face pointng down to my lap. I re-latch and she does the same again. My nipples are back to taking a real beating like in the early days and the pain when feeding is excruciating. Nipples coming out wedge shaped and can't get her to stay properly latched at all. I'm now starting to dread feeds.

I think I've got a bit of an oversupply issie as well....when i express (not often)it all seems to be the thinner foremilk, up to 6ozs of it)

I've called the NCT and am waiting for a call back, but am sat here crying as she is waking up again, and I don't want to feed her. I've got PND as well and am trying to cope on my own weith her and demanding 5 year old through the week as DH works away.

This just feels like shit.

Hi,

I'm sorry I have no practical advice for yo, but wanted to send you a big (hug) and let you know your message isn't being ignored. I had similar problems with ds and remember that feeling of dread

I'm sure someone will be along with something more helpful soon.....

thanks Jas....

If you have thrush it could well be that feeding is painful for her. Try to persevere if you want to continue bfing, as the thrush will clear up and she will probably go back to feeding normally.
I used to sit and cry it hurt so much, and DD1 was having a very hard time.
Remember it is probably painful for her too,, adn try to relax, as being stressed makes it worse.
Keep expressing and if she will take bottle and breast, maybe alternate breast and bottle feeds to give your nipples a break, and her mouth.

thanks BoM...but she has been taking nystatin since last Friday. would it not have cleared up by now? the deep breast pain in me has completely gone.

I had to stop bfing DD1 at 12 weeks as she had lost so much weight from it that my gp said I must top up with formula. She refused the breast after that, so beware that your dd might do the same. But DD1 was fine, she slurped her formula and gained weight. If this should happen there is no point in feeling bad. Guilt will not help anything so don't give yourself a hard time. You are doing your best and that is all you can do.

If you can push thru then great, but don't be hard on yourself if it doesn't go well.

DD2, to make you feel better, is still bfing at 1 yo. So I did much better with my second, than with DD1. Live and learn.

It may be worth calling one of the other helplines, too:

National Childbirth Trust Breastfeeding Line 0870 444 8708
La Leche League Telephone Helpline 0845 120 2918
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers helpline 0870 401 7711
Breastfeeding Network Supporterline 0870 900 8787

(I hope these are still up to date, I copied them from a post by Hunkermunker a while ago.)

continue until all the nystatin is gone. DD1's was so bad, thanks to HV telling me it was milkspots, that it took 3 rounds of it to get rid of it. Keep treating yourself too. even tho it feels better, until every sign of it is gone.
And if you ever suspect it is back get to gp straight away

from that pov, I've done so much better than I did with DS as i stopped BF at 5.5 weeks, expressed as much as i could and he was fully ff by 7 weeks.

i really wanted to di it this time and was pleased to get off to a flying start relatively pan free.

Since four weeks though it seems to have been one hurdle after another.

i've called NCT and am waiting for a call back. I was gong to the baby cafe, but my local one is off during school hols, and the nearest one is really busy and i didn't want to take DS with me as well...he is finding the lack of attention really hard and would be trying every trick in the book to get my attention when i was with the bf counsellor.

My HV did come over last week and was really good and made some suggestions re latch, but it doesn't matter what i do, she re-positions herslef.

I hope you get over this hurdle, I know how awful it is. I have had a dep distrust of HV's since then

Can you still see any white spots in her mouth?? Even after it had gone in DD1 she didn't seem to suck right. I think she learned to suck in a strange way when it hurt. Mind you she got it at 2 or 3 wks, so your dd should be ok.
Give her some more time, which should be ok if it's not painful for you anymore. She will hopefully get back into it.

It is tricky as it is painful for you, but she may well be trying to make it less painful for herself.

Hopefully the pros will be able to help you. It is awful when feeding is painful.

God I sympathise. I had a similarly awful experience second time around. I remember thinking "I thought it was supposed to be easier this time"

Bout after bout of mastitis, the latch was never correct, pain never fully went away - etc etc.

Despite all of this I persevered for 5 months. I remember feeling so relieved when it was over, virtually to the extent of whooping for joy.

You have done really really well to get to this stage. I would say to get as much help as possible. For my first I had loads of support with a breastfeeding counsellor - I just kept going back, even with a massive baby compared to the tiny tots that they usually see.

If you want to persevere, then go for it. You have shown so much perseverence so far that you have a really good chance of overcoming your remaining obstacles.

she doesn't have any obvious sgns of the thrush, and i didn't on my nipples either. I had antibiotics when she was three weeks old and my GP thinks it must have been building since then, hence the cluckiness etc getting worse. I feel really guilty that she has been suffering all this time too.

I'm not sure I had the right dose of fluconazole though as it was less than that suggested in the BfN leaflet, so maybe it's just not cleared up properly.

She's fully awake and starting to protest now

Thanks

Daisy,

If I were you I would call every helpline you can, and see if you can get someone to come out to you, or you go to them - there is no substitute for an expert being able to see exactly what is going on.

If that doesn't solve the problem and you're still not happy with the way it's going. DO NOT feel bad about switching to formula.

You have your whole family to consider. I'm sure this is not helping your PND, and your 5 year old needs you too.

Give it your best shot, try every avenue you can think of for help and support, and hopefully they will be able to set you straight.

If it's still not working, move on.

There are worse things in the world you can do than formula feed a baby, whatever you may feel right now. if you do end up going down this route, at least you know you tried every avenue first.

Best of luck - you're doing so well to have continued as long as you have, and your baby is lucky to have a Mum as strong minded as you.

You should always take the recommended dose, or itwont work.
Don't feel bad about how it happened. I hadn't had anything and we got it. I had no obvious signs either, but DD1 did. Her mouth was thick with it.
Hope you figure it all out.

Daisy, if you haven't seen the thrush leaflet from the BfN, then please copy it and take it to your GP. I don't know how much medication you were given but it sounds like you need a full loading dose. GP's are wary of this but the BfN leaflet may help.

As you can see, you may need it for 10 days. You and your baby needs to be treated simultaneously.

this is kellymom on oversupply and fast letdown.

hugs.

I've just spoken to an nct counsellor. She's given me the number of someone locally who may be able to come out to see me or who can suggest some one who can. failing that there are some local groups i can go to, but not till tuesaday as its no use taking ds along as well

i don't want to switch to formula, but i am aware that my relationship with my son is suffering and that it's not doing my mental health great favours at the moment.

i feel like shite and dh being a twunt about it all too.

thanks kiskidee. i was originally given one 150mg tablet, daktarin gel for me and nystatin for lo. i phoned the hv and said i didn't think i'd been given the right dose (which i'd tried to exlain to the (juniorish) doc). she spoke to the senior parnter and brought me that leaflet, plus further 50mg tablets to be taken once a day for seven days (so only half the dose in the leaflet and for not as long). i didn't want to question it again, really but maybe i need to go back

i've read up on oversupply issues so am trying some of those measures but no success as yet, altho realise it will take time.

i just want to take me and dd to bed for some much needed skin to skin, but not easy with ds around. weekends are very fraught as i have dh to deal with too, who although is very good with hugs etc, gets very stroppy if i get stressed out (he says all the right things, but doesn't quite follow through and if i point this out he goes all teenagery and harumphy on me)

Daisy

Dont beat yourself up.It sounds like you are doing a great job and with an awful lot to deal with too

If you feel unwell and think your mental health is suffering then think about switching to ff.I dont know if doing this may make your feel worse as I know from reading on this site that women do stress about not being able to bf. I ff from birth by choice and it saddens me to hear when women are suffering like you (I am not anti bf by the way it just was not for me.)

Best of luck in what ever you decide and I hope you feel better soon
x

ps

hit dh over the head with a frying pan, that should give him a reality check eh
You need lots of support right now.

honestly men sometimes eh?

it's funny CP, because of the probs i had with ds i was pretty blase about things this time and had decided that i'd give bf a fair go and if it wasn't working not stress about switching to formula. but, now i've sweated it out for nearlt three months, if i stopped now i'd feel much more of a failure than last time, if that makes any sense?

typing crap sorry....dd and laptop vying for space on my lap!

LOL at hitting dh wit frying pan

Daisy {{{HUGS}}}!!

Tell your dh to stop being a twunt and take ds to the park!

I am always wary about making a comment about bf as I am a ff mum and have been shot down in the past.

I know its the best for your baby but imo only if it works for mum. Your health and state of mind is equally importanant and I get very upset when i read notes on here about mums bf and having a bad time and despite lots of good advice re continuing the bf from fellow bf mums, very rarely does anyone say, look if you want to stop then do so.

Being a mum is so much more than bf and look what you have achieved so far. You have been having a hard time and all I want to say is that you do have other options.

Please dont be offended,or any other bf mums. I realy do think that sometimes mums need to think about thier health and well being too.I am coming from a good place.
x

CP...i hope no-one takes offence, i certainly don't and have always been of the whatever works best for you school of thought. i just didn't realise that the more time i invested in this the harder it would be to stop.

i even feel i'm being a little bit selfish by wanting to carry on when no-one is having a good time at the moment in the boo household.....except babyboo who is placid and smiley and thriving in spite of the problems we've had.