12 weeks and not getting better, I'm at the end of my tether, please help.

[daisyandbabybootoo]

Babyboo was 12 weeks on Tuesday. BF got off to a flying start and had settled after the first two weeks. I was feeling great about it as I didn't manamge with DS beyond 5 weeks.

After 4 weeks she started to get very clucky at the breast which has got steadily worse over time. I've had blocked ducts, mastitis, more blocked ducts. Two weeks ago I started getting shooting pains in my breasts towards the end of feeding, continuing for over an hour afterwrds and intermittently between feeds....pain shooting into my armpits. Was given thrush medication for me and baby last weekend and over this week the cluckiness has improved, but she is now fighting with the breast at every feed.

I manage to get her latched on ok, but as soon as i relax into the feed she shakes her head and either pulls abck or gets her face pointng down to my lap. I re-latch and she does the same again. My nipples are back to taking a real beating like in the early days and the pain when feeding is excruciating. Nipples coming out wedge shaped and can't get her to stay properly latched at all. I'm now starting to dread feeds.

I think I've got a bit of an oversupply issie as well....when i express (not often)it all seems to be the thinner foremilk, up to 6ozs of it)

I've called the NCT and am waiting for a call back, but am sat here crying as she is waking up again, and I don't want to feed her. I've got PND as well and am trying to cope on my own weith her and demanding 5 year old through the week as DH works away.

This just feels like shit.

I've just been in exactly the same place as you but after 5.5 weeks rather than 12 - latching probs followed by mastitis followed by thrush - but it sounds as though you've had more to deal with though with having other children too.

Yesterday I made the difficult decision to switch to formula despite general pressure to continue bf, plus me desperately wanting to and understanding all the intellectual arguments pro bf.

But when it came down to it I was in too much pain, and dreaded feeds and began to resent DS. That just shouldn't be how it is. My dad - ever the voice of reason - said to me that DS won't remember how he was fed but he will remember whether I was holding back from him emotionally because of the feeding problems. That really put it in perspective for me. I tried my best, gave him nearly 6 weeks of breast milk which will hopefully give him something healthwise, but now it's time to move on and start to enjoy my baby. Plus if you feel that your mental state is affecting not only your relationship with DD but with the rest of the family then it might be worth weighing up whether it really is that important to bf or whether there are more important things in life.

I got to the stage where I had a near miss in the car and my first thought was 'if I ended up in hospital everyone would accept my decision to stop bf'!! That suggested to me that bf was sapping my sanity. Plus who is 'everyone'?? They can eff off as far as I'm concerned. No-one should comment on the choices you make as parents. It's hard enough without that kind of crap.

But I feel the guilt too, and feel heartbroken and disappointed that I couldn't bf in the way I wanted to or imagined I would, but then I had a brilliant birth experience that I will cherish forever so maybe it's swings and roundabouts... And I feel so much better about everything having made that decision.

Having said that, you really have to have a really good soul-searching session about what is right for you and have the courage of your convictions to put that into place.

Good luck and I hope things get better for you.

PS - Don't necessary believe all the militant pro-bf arguments about the health benefits. My SIL pointed out to me yesterday that she has bf her DS for 10 months and he has terrible ezcema, and that her brother was bf for 18 months and has ezcema, asthma and nut allergies!

brave post oyster

good for you in making a decision that is best for you
x

oysterpots, i posted on your thread the other day. i was like that with my ds and its horrible. i'm sorry you had to give up, and hope that you can go from strength to strength.

i want to carry on and think there's nothing going on with me that can't be sorted by talking to a bf counsellor and getting some one to one support.

Hi daisy, sorry you are having a shit time. I wish I could help but just wanted to let you know I know how you feel. Just as I thought thing were going well with me and DD it seems to have got worse again. Think we have both got lazy with the latching on and my nips are killing me. I also think the breast feeding is taking it out of me physically, my boobs wake me up hurting due to engorgement in the morning, my nips are sore, and it makes me feel a bit out of sorts sometimes, but like you I was prepared to let myself give up, but after doing it this long I don't feel like I can, I'm not sure why.

Sorry, that's just me offloading instead of helping but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. Hope things get better, and give DH a kick in the nuts and tell him that's how you feel in your nips

Btw, I'm thinking of getting these

LOL bumper...i might just do that with dh...and offload away, it is good to know I'm not alone, although I wish things were easier for you. I know exactly what you mean about having gone this long!

not sure about the silverette things though....i've got some silver elastoplast, will they not do??

Maybe, you can also get silver backed breast pads from the same site.

Gosh, it's hard work, don't you feel like you want your own full time bf councellor on hand!

so much so that I'm considering training to be a BF counsellor.

will try the elastoplast and reprot back, LOL

I would worry about the stickiness though, especially if you have tender nips!

wow! that's some nipple bling!

if you have lots of milk why not expr and bf?

i hope you feel better soon. make sure you talk to someone about your pnd too.

sending best wishes for your problem with this post

Well done for managing 12wks.... did DD slip in a growth spurt at the same time, that won't have helped your nips??

Contact your doctor as many times as needed over any issue, that's what they are there for. Write some points down to take with you if this helps?

I know very little about PND but here's a hug!

As you've mentioned you want to carry on bf you'll prob feel tonnes better in yourself when these probs are sorted. Contact bfc helpline if not heard back yet, you need help and the releif of knowing you're seeing someone can help (it helped me!).

There are threads about sore nips, breast pads, have a look through, they are helpful.

Getting the latch completely sorted as well will help with soreness. When you relax in the feed do either you or dd move position slightly? maybe this is a bit of the cause of the wedge shaped nips?

when I was sore I used to dread feeds, it's not nice to feel like that. I used to have to really concentrate on the latch, nipple aimed, wait for dd to open mouth & launch (gritting teeth & curling toes!) I, like you, expressed but I also did it for a bit of nipple releif to help when I was really sore.

Now I can feed in the dark without even thinking about it!

I recommend air time after a feed, don't put your bra back on straight away, it might help with the soreness. You may end up with damp patches on your t-shirt but that can be washed!

As for DS, I watched a programme (I watch too many!!) when mum was bf, she'd get a special bag/box of toys out for DS to play with, it was like a little treat and special time for DS whilst she was feeding. Same programme showed mum feeding & having DS sat next to her whilst she read to him although you may have to balance your laptop on your head for that one!

It's hard when you haven't got all the support from DH, mine works 12hr shifts including nights where I just don't see him or get any help & then he's knackered on his days off!

When the feeding stress is sorted the both of you will prob feel a bit better.

I have a habit of holding my boob when feeding & have to be really aware not to squeeze it or press too hard to make sure I don't interupt my milk ducts as I've heard this can cause blocked ducts, I'm not saying this is the cause of yours but do be careful with milk machines!

Sorry its long but I'm hoping I'm helping just a little.... keep us posted about the counsellor! They are worth their weight in gold, I had a great NCT bfc who sorted me out!

Chin up & this time next month you'll prob be feeding in the dark with your eyes shut & this chapter will be but a distant memory!

Just read the beginning of this thread and haven't time to read it all as off to do a dream feed- if it's thrush that's causing you pain Nystatin WONT clear it- it's no longer considered the best treatment. You need a gel call DAKTARIN 2% for babes mouth 4 times a day and DAKTARIN 2% cream for your nipples applied as often as needed after each feed. Treat for 2 weeks even when symptoms have gone, It can be bought over counter but can also be prescribed by GP- however some are a bit behind the times and you may have to be assertive. Really hope this helps- hang in there- good luck.

Daisy, I've ordered those silverette things. I'll let you know what they are like.

I meant to tell you that DD does the same as yours sometimes, she shakes her head and though her mouth is open she won't latch on, sometimes it's wind but not always. She really doesn't get on with my left boob either. I've had to start concentrating on the latch again, but she doesn't seem to open her mouth wide enough any more. God this is hard!

hi daisy, big hugs !! i've been on my own with 1 lo who feeds easily and THATS hard so god knows how you're coping. you're doing so well.

my lo sometimes buries his head in my waist / armpit and it's usually wind (he's 6 mths and it's been the same signs since day 1) due to v fast letdown - we've cracked it now though, he takes a full feed in about 6 mins now. not come across the head shaking though. if you're getting lots of formilk, maybe try a little expressing before a feed so that she gets more hindmilk.

if it's thrush and you've had antibiotics, i would definitely get on a course of probiotic tablets, and get some ABC dophilus for your LO to add to expressed milk - this will help the thrush clear up miuch faster by replenishing some of the good bacteria that the anti b's will have killed off in both of you.

as for the skin on skin, why don't you ALL go to bed in your pants ad have lots of lovely family skin on skin ? let ds cuddle up to her too ? or is that a silly idea, sorry don't know much about older kids !!
anyway keep your pecker up, hope the NCT can help you.

thanks for the responses...and the hugs...I feel all hugged out

Yes, we've had a growth spurt going oin as well, meaning constant feeding on thursday and friday which hasn't helped. She's settled down a bit today thankfully.

i will try winding her next time she thrashes about. It's not like her usual wind signals, but worth a go.

I have daktarin gel as well, (for my nipples but find it nasty and sticky) so i will try that in her mouth as the nystatin is finished. will get daktarin cream at the chemist

Will also try live yogurt etc for friendly bacteria, but as the ABs were 9 weeks ago i would've thought we would both have recovered by this time.

Managed to feed her relatively painlessly this evening (and on the left side which is usually worse). worth noting that she had been awake for about four hours this afternoon at the park (she was very nosy, it was lovely) so she was very tired when we did our last feed of the day.

At least she is sleeping through the night so i don;t have draining night feeds to contend with.

I'll try expressing some off in the morning before i latch her on and see if it makes a difference.

I've also got some green bush flower essence on recommendation from one of my AN thread.

I'm going to do a bit of skin to skin with her tomorrow...send my boys out to do the weekly shop!

DH isn't that bad really [melting emoticon] he just finds my PND difficult to deal with and i tend not to tell him i'm finding things hard until i reach meltdown by which time i'm in a real state and he's at a loss.
Sorry for the ,ong post.

Thanks again . i'll see how things go oveer the next few weeks. it will be easier when ds is back at school next week.

thanks DG . DH is getting me some acidopholus caps on the way home.
I've not been controlling my coeliac disease too well recently so if my guts are trashed from that it might be taking longer to recover in general.

I've been eating a lot of yeasty things (ordinasry bread as well as gluten free bread) and cosuming sweets by the bucket load.

Things have taken another turn thi morning. i'm feeding her on that side to clear things and having a duvet day with ots of skin to skin and cuddles. boys off out so we're nice and relaxed.

will get back to the docs tomorrow though.

hi daisy. agree with domesticb. the place where i normally work specialises in treating systemic candida infestations and more often that not these are triggered by that 1 last bout of antibiotics which then allows candida to take a real hold in the gut and allows thrush to flourish. i suffered from it for years in the bowel, have only just cleared it and my last course of ab's was about 10 years ago.

IME nystatin and other conventional anti funglas don't really work in the long run, they just suppress the candida. the best way to kill it is a 3 pronbged attack, ie replenish good bacteria, starve the candida and kill it off at the same time. hence why domestic is advocating a sugar free diet.

it's worth also avoiding yeast, garlic and mushroosm, fungal cheses ie brie and sweeteners such as aspartame. if you want more info i can direct you to some sources.

but, obviously you're looking for a quick fix at the moment to aid your feeding, so i would try as much of the above as possible ! also try applying live yoghurt to your nipples - i know it sounds insane !

ta PL. i used to get thrush a lot, but after being diagnosed coeliac and cutting out most yeasty products from my diet...eg breads, i've not had it for years.

3-pronged attack it is!

Hi. I have been where you are. I haven't read all the replies to your post, just wanted to ask what kind of thrush med you are on. I was put on antibiotics (big mistake) for thrush in my nipples and baby's mouth only, baby was given nystan drops. That didn't help. Then I was given Canesten cream for my nipples (put on after each feed) and baby stayed on nystan drops, and it all cleared up. I was so convinced I was going to give up breastfeeding, but baby is 8 months old today and still breastfeeding. Very hard, painful, and demoralising at the time though. Antibiotics made the thrush work, I don't know WHY Dr's prescribe it for that. Try and get some canesten, or cream with clotrimazole in it (I think that's the word). All the best.

sorry that was supposed to say antibiotics made the thrush worse not work.

thanks thalia,...i've got antifungal tabs for me (finished now) nystatin for LO (also finished) and daktarin gel which i'm still using.

I'm persevering with the BF, as when it goes well everything is great.

daisy - are you trying different positions to feed her in? If you have recurrent blocked ducts and mastitis it sounds as though your breasts are not being emptied well. Changing positions such as cradle hold can help get the milk moving out of different areas. By alternating positions you can get better overall movement of milk until this resolves.

Pay attenstion to her latch - again if she isn't fixing as well as she could be she won't get the milk moving optimumly.

Your problems can be solved but it takes time. Good luck

this site might help - it has videos of latching on

thanks mears. i'm trying to get her latch sorted, but i think i've let her get a bit lazy with the clucking etc due to the thrush.

She doesn't seem to open her mouth very wide, or if she does and i get her latched nicley, as soon as i relax she pulls and moves about till she's where she wants to be.
I've tried lying down and haven't cracked it, and in the football hold she now kicks the back of the sofa which makes her tug on me so I've given that one up. Recently i was moving so her head was resting on my arm after she had latched, but she pulls off completely if do that, so I've been holding the back of her head with one hand and my boob with the other.

her bottom lip is never fully outwardly turned either and i can't seem to get her to do that.

will her recessed chin be part of the problem with the latch? (LOL she sounds like a horror, but she's beautiful really....it was just the HV mentioned her chin)

Thanks for the videos...i'll watch them later when she is in bed