Desperately desperately need bf advice

[firsttimemummatobella]

I’m at the end of my tether...

My beautiful dd is almost 3 weeks old and I have struggled with bf from the start.
I have been unable to get the perfect latch meaning my nipple on one boob has huge chunks out of it and is absolute agony when she feeds. I went to a LLL support group and the consultant hugely helped but I cannot seem to recreate what she showed me at home.
Last night I think I started with the symptoms of mastitis in the bad boob making everything 10 times worse.
I have been in floods of tears all day agonising over what to do.
I am spending all day in a state of permanent anxiety over feeding and it is all I think about. Feel like I am missing out enjoying these first few weeks because I’m so stressed out.
I guess what I’m looking for is opinions as to what I should do...change to formula? Try expressing? Suck it up and carry on (probably cannot do this)?
Even the thought of changing to formula is making me feel like an utter failure that I can’t do what should come naturally but I really can’t carry on like this.
Any advice would be hugely appreciated!

Oh lovely that sounds so tough. You're doing an amazing job in persevering and asking for support though. Have you seen someone about the mastitis? Do keep feeding or expressing from the breast as it getting engorged will make things worse.

Can you contact the LLL lady you saw? Many of them publish their phone numbers so you can contact them directly. She's seen you both so maybe she can help talk you through latching the way you did in the session?

You know I might be wrong but it reads to me as if you want to move to formula but you're looking for validation that it's the right thing to do... If that's what you want to do then do it and don't worry about anyone else's opinion! Breastfeeding is so bloody hard, I struggled with it too at the start but I just wasn't ready to call it quits so persevered with it and it got better with time. If you feel like you've give it your best and it's not working out then please don't beat yourself up about it. Having a baby is hard enough as it is without adding pressure to yourself unnecessarily. The fact that you've taken the time and effort to get support shows that you're doing a great job as a mom. Breastfeeding is not the be all and end all, if you want to give formula then do it and enjoy your baby

You should move to formula if that's what you want to do. Breastfeeding does get easier with time, newborns have very tiny mouths which can make latch very hard. I hated it for the first six weeks, was horrendous.

If you have chunks out then you can buy a wet heal dressing called Jelonet over the counter in boots pharmacy. Complete lifesaver for me when my nipples were shreaded. You micropore tape it on, I promise it does help.

If you want to persevere then go back to the lactation consultant and get her to show you again, they won't mind at all. At some point it will click. If you're at the end of your tether though it's OK to stop

You poor thing, no wonder you have been feeling at such a low ebb - that sounds so tough. You have done incredibly incredibly well to persevere in the face of such pain (nipple pain is just toe curling) and that alone makes you a wonderful mummy, especially when such perseverence comes at a time of exhaustion and huge physical and hormonal upheaval.

If finances allow I would strongly advise getting a private lactation consultant to come to your home. I did it with both my babies and it was the best £100 I spent. The degree of pain you are in and nipple damage suggests a poor latch which if sorted will transform the whole breastfeeding experience for you. Being in such pain and spending all day dreading feeds is awful and as you rightly point out, robbing you of your enjoyment of these precious early weeks with your baby. Caveat - I found the pressure to be in constant state of newborn bliss a stress in itself and it is worth remembering that for many many women (the vast majority in my experience) the first few weeks of parenthood are exhausting, stressful and frankly something to be endured so don’t beat yourself up for not having the ‘perfect’ newborn experience that is the creation of social media and not born out in reality. With that said, you should at the very least expect to be pain free when feeding hence the urgency of getting the latch sorted. I wonder too if your baby has been properly checked for tongue tie? This is often overlooked by health professionals and can really impede the ability of the baby to achieve and maintain an effective latch on the breast. Both my children had fairly significant tongue ties which before getting them snipped made my nipples a painful blood-blistered mess.

If you are having any symptoms of mastitis you will need an appointment with a gp first thing in the morning to get some antibiotics as it can quickly make you feel very ill.

Huge hugs because I well remember what it is like to be in the trenches of postnatal recovery, exhaustion and breastfeeding woes.

PS - if for whatever reason you decide to formula feed please please be assured that you are not remotely a failure as a mother. Feeding choices are not a marker of our love for our babies nor our devotion to them. They are simply that, a choice. Do not fall into the trap of equating feeding method with your worth as a mother. You don’t need permission from anyone to start formula feeding and I found it helpful to have it in the house so I knew it was always there if I needed it. That alone took some of the pressure off.

I do however think that if you can get the latch sorted, have her assessed for tongue tie and get yourself some antibiotics on board if you have mastitis then the whole experience could quickly do a complete 180.

One extra thought, nipple shields get a bad press but I have seen them used to great effect and are definitely worth considering. Also it goes without saying that you must rest rest rest this weekend if you are coming down with mastitis so if you can stay in bed and get your partner to take over the babycare between feeds that is a must.

I came on to say my baby struggled to latch and I found nipple shields a game changer. Mastitis is horrendous- agree with trying to get some rest.

I had very similar experience with bf, it's so awful when it's painful like that and you just dread feeding. It takes real courage to put baby on each time. Nipple shields helped me massively, only used it on sore nipple for a few days but made it less painful, easier for baby to latch and gave nipple a chance to heal. They need sterilising so make sure to get sterilising stuff. I also found using one of those C shaped feeding cushions helped get position right so I could just focus on latch itself, rather than angle as well. Also helped to have someone who had done it like mum or friend come round for the day and just help me every time. Bf is a skill and It's something I at least needed to be shown again and again.

It does get easier! When it clicks, it clicks. But also, there is nothing wrong with formula! Using it in no way makes you a failure, it might be right choice for you and your baby.

Hi mum to six month old here and went through exactly the same thing for the first 4/5 weeks with my little one. I had to top up with formula as baby would be on me for hours and hours sucking but I obviously didn’t think she was getting enough - and I didn’t know what a let down felt like and couldn’t feel much milk being gulped.

I was also terrified of baby actually latching on as it often hurt because her jaws werent developed enough.

I went to a few clinics who all said cluster feeding was normal. Most didn’t recommend nipple shields but one lady said I should use that if it works - and it honestly helped me. It meant I could feed with confidence of not having pain - and eventually when baby’s latch developed I didn’t use them. I also massaged my breasts to get more milk out whilst baby was feeding - LL website shows how. I also learnt to safely co-sleep whilst feeding - which I only used for napping - but it let me get some rest whilst feeding.

From then on baby gulped milk (I could hear it) and the feedings got more spaced out and took a shorter time.

I’m now still breastfeeding little one and with ease.

So if you want to use formula then absolutely do - babies thrive on that.

But if you want to Try to do more bf then the above helped me and eventually my baby’s jaw strength improved - and I hope the same happens for you

Firstly, use a nipple shield. If it's agony and your nipples need to heal, they are a game changer, as others have said. The modern silicone versions don't have any of the risks associated with them that the old ones did (reduced milk supply etc)

Secondly, get more support. I strongly recommend seeing a lactation consultant if you are able, usually they come to your house. Are there other groups you could attend? The more support the better, really.

Oh lovely this was me 9 years ago. I had shredded nipples and was in agony.
I ended up expressing for a few days and bottle feeding expressed milk then I started again. But it was tough.
I saw so so many people who said my latch looked fine and they couldn't explain why I was so sore.
When I started feeding again I used to alternate position at first and I also used nipple shields and in the end fed for 8 months.
BUT the experience mentally scarred me. I can remember not wanting to feed the baby or have her near me in case she wanted to feed. I can remember the pain so much.
I desperately wanted someone to tell me to stop and give her formula but no one would make that decision for me. Yet I wasn't in the right frame of mind to make it.
It took til I had my second and was hysterical in the delivery room at the thought of it happening again. It did and when she was 10 days old my husband said "we can't go on like this give her a bottle"
I felt like he had made the decision and stopped and felt like a massive weight had lifted. Huge. I had a totally different experience of her being a baby.

So if you got this far...
nipple shields
Change feeding position regularly
Lasinoh - lots of it
But mostly
If you can't carry on then stop. Or combination feed to give yourself recovery time.

In 5 years time when your baby is at school you'll have no idea looking round the class who was breast fed and who wasn't.

Sending you all the love in the world, happy mum = happy baby xx

I don't have any advice re breastfeeding itself, but I just came here to say it sounds like you've been doing a great job at persevering so far. It just isn't as straightforward for everyone and it can make you feel awful if you're struggling.

I have a 3 month old, and we made the decision to go formula within the first week as breastfeeding just wasn't working for me nor baby. I was so disappointed at missing out on the mother baby bonding with breastfeeding but have made up for that in other ways.

I hope you're able to make some progress soon, but if you do end up switching to formula please don't feel bad. And you really mustn't think of yourself as a failure. I certainly don't.

As @PhoenixBuchanan said a lactation consultant who visits can be a game changer - that’s where I got my tips above from and she also showed me how to correct the latch without suffering the horror or having to unlatch - this meant I wasn’t scared to actually try and nurse in the first place , which combined with the nipple shields meant I kept feeding, my supply increased and baby got practice in latching.

I did also need to nurse a lot in those early days which increase my supply. But it all got so much better after about 4 weeks or so with the help of the lactation consultant

Thanks everyone for your kind words. We’re hours deep into night feeds and I’m not losing it yet somehow! I think reading these messages has made me feel better!
@Puddlelane123 where could I find a lactation consultant? Don’t mind spending the money - I’m willing to try anything!

I’ve read bad things about nipple shields but will give them a go as everyone is recommending them!

I think ideally I do want to continue bf as all the other signs are good - dd is putting lots of weight on (she was 4 weeks early too so this is important) and I have plenty of milk, it’s just the pain is unbearable at the moment!
My dp is very pro bf but I think after the amount of tears yesterday he is opening up to other options if we need to do them!

How are you feeling this morning? Worth getting some savoy cabbage leaves in your bra if you can as they are great with mastitis and engorgement, although avoid the nipple area if they are essentially open wounds at the mo. I found that putting a nappy saturated in warm water in my bra really useful too as it retains the heat nicely and can be replaced easily.

If you google lactation consultants in your area you should find one, but if not if you telephone the la leche league they should have some recommendations.

Really hope you feel better today and have some joy getting hold of some help this weekend. Definitely speak with gp / out of hours if you continue to have signs of mastitis.

And great that your dd is gaining weight and husband is a support - a huge bonus!

Absolutely exhausted! She only went down for two half an hour sleeps and the whole rest of the night she has been feeding!! This can’t be normal can it?!

Exhausting! Can indeed be normal if there is a growth spurt / she is increasing your supply (have had many many nights like that with my babies) but it may equally be because of poor latch if she is having troubles transferring milk efficiently. Is so hard to gauge without seeing your latch / positioning etc.

Oh god OP you've taken me back to the nights like that! It can be normal unfortunately but they are few.
What you are going through is absolutely hell on a stick but it can change quite quickly and you can come out the other side of it with your BF relationship (and your nipples) intact.
Loads of great advice on this thread. Just wanted to give you a hug and say I've been there (with each of my two) and it's horrible but we came through the other side.

Is she actually feeding or is she comfort sucking? When you feed her in the night are you sitting up and cradling her, or have you tried side lying?
I recommend side lying for night times, you can go back to sleep very quickly, I promise it's so much better.

I hope you manage to crack it. With DD the first 6 weeks were awful, especially the evenings when she was cluster feeding. I used to use lansinoh heat therapy pads she take pain relief so it wouldn't hurt so much.
At 6 weeks she had an undiagnosed tongue tie snipped, and the pain went away the same day.

With DS it hurt for a week or two then got a lot better.

If you decide to formula feed you absolutely are not a failure, you've given her the best start already. And you can share feeds with your partner which is a huge bonus over BFing!
Good luck

Another thing to recommend. If a nipple is cracked it needs to heal by "wet wound healing", this means keeping it clean but moist.
You will hear about different ways to do that

1. Multimam pads. These are expensive but I found them brilliant. The only thing is that the instructions say put them on for about an hour. Instead put a fresh pair on for twelve hours at a time. Do this for a good few days, it really eases pain and gets the healing underway.
2. Silverette cups. These fit on the nipple and keep it moist with breastmilk. Have to wash them twice a day I think with breadsoda

Others use lansinoh ointment but I think it's too thick to get healing going. I wouldn't recommend the multimam tube of gel, the pads are far better. I felt jelonet was too dry but I've seen jelonet sandwiches recommended online (a combo of that and multimam pads- Google it)
The lansinoh breast pads are great I think and I would also make sure that your bra cups are a little too big to make sure the sore nipples aren't being squashed.

Also make sure you are taking some pain relief like paracetamol. It will help too. Best of luck. I had similar and muddled through.

Absolutely exhausted! She only went down for two half an hour sleeps and the whole rest of the night she has been feeding!! This can’t be normal can it?!

That sounds like day/night confusion to me. Does she sleep a lot during the day? If so, I'd wake her up and make sure she's not so well rested, or this could continue. She's still really little (3 weeks old, but 4 weeks early, so she's only 39 weeks), so it's probably okay.

As for the BFing - can you afford a postnatal doula? With my first I had a wonderful woman who came in for a few hours a day for the first week. It was like having a LLL consultant sitting on my sofa and she really helped me to get sorted with BFing (so much so that I never used formula for either of my DC). She also made us dinner every night, put the laundry on, brought me drinks and held my DS while I showered and got dressed. She was wonderful.

doula.org.uk/find-a-doula/

Mine definitely cluster fed for the first few weeks - we checked tongue tie but she didn’t have it. In hindsight she was probably comfort feeding and wasn’t sucking enough to stimulate my let down so I wasn’t giving enough milk.

Again that changed at four weeks or so once her jaw got stronger and with lactation consultants advice.

In early days their tummies are tiny anyway so they do cluster feed. You are doing so well.

I just want to echo what other posters are saying. Firstly, breastfeeding is bloody hard but it does get easier. Secondly, if you did add in formula it wouldn't be a failure in any way - formula is a wonderful thing in a crisis (or any time if that's your preference) - all you need to do is make sure your baby is fed somehow. It sounds like you're doing an amazing job.

My first baby was 3 weeks early and had jaundice and a tongue tie. Establishing feeding was really hard. I saw a lactation consultant who recommended medulla nipple shields to stop the damage and let my nipples start to heal. I really believe that without them I'd have given up. It's a faff having to sterilise and fiddle with them each feed, but I only used them for a week and the difference was massive. Babies latch had improved with him getting older and having his tongue tie snipped - but without the shields my nipples still weren't healing. I do think it's worth a try if you'd like to carry on breastfeeding.

I wish I had known how hard it is! It wouldn’t have made me not try but I think I would have been better prepared.
@DontBuyANewMumCashmere Sometimes she does change to comfort sucking and I then de latch her but this seems to wake her up again and she wants more feeding. I am cradling her at the moment as that is the position the LLL showed me but I’m definitely not getting that right as it’s still painful so I can try lying down.

At the hospital they briefly checked her for tongue tie but do they need to do this more thoroughly?

@zafferana she does sleep more in the day as she sleeps on me/DP. Can they have this confusion so early on? I try in the daytime to be more engaging with her and less so in the night. We could look into a doula - depends how expensive it is.
She’s just fed now and gone to sleep on me straight away, was panicking in the night that I wasn’t making enough any more!

At this point, given she's still technically not even full term, keep her on the breast. Comfort sucking is still important as it helps establish your supply and she will still be small so get tired easily. You might want to read up on the 4th trimester (although you're still officially in the 3rd!!)

I found I couldn't feed DS lying down til he was about 6 mo as my letdown was so strong and he couldn't keep himself in the right position

You never ever stop making milk. Do not worry about that. And at this point, your supply is not yet established so it is important to keep offering it

As for tongue tie, get some one who is actually qualified to check. They won't just look, they will also feel.

Yes, it is totally normal for babies to not know day from night, and usually this takes up to about the 3 month mark to get the difference,