Still struggling at eight weeks... sorry but I need some more advice please... again!

[Mossie]

Ds is eight weeks old today and I am trying my hardest to bf him.

He only very occasionally opens his mouth wide enough to get a good mouthful of breast (my areola are absolutely huge which doesn't help) and even then he often falls asleep after just a few minutes feeding... I have to tickle his ears, strip him down to his nappy etc just to keep him awake. Still he never comes off by himself, and even if I feed both sides he's certainly not a contented baby.

I got to the point where I would feed as much as I can and then express the rest (only ever an oz or less each time) and feed it him in a bottle so I could be sure he was getting enough. This exhausted me. I have now resigned myself to just constantly feeding during the day.

At night he latches on even less well and basically sucks the nipple. I have tried everything to encourage him to open wider, it just doesn't happen. So I'm sat there for almost an hour, never sure whether or not he's had enough, as he's not proper sucking really.

He produces plenty of wet nappies but poos only about once a week. His weight gain is slow - only a few oz each week (except last week where he put on eight oz but this week we're back to two).

He is never settled between feeds for more than about ten minutes... he then starts crying again, sucking his fingers etc. like he is hungry.

I went to a LLL support group a few times, the woman there checked my latch, said it was fine, said that if he wasn't opening wide enough "he probably wasn't hungry". Which can't be the case in the middle of the night.

I have rung the NCT helpline and got advised to switch feed, which occasionally works in the day, but again, not at night.

What I want to know is, is the above normal behaviour for an eight week old? If not, has anyone else had this experience and if so how did you solve it?

Also if all else fails where can I get someone to actually come and have a look at what I'm doing and explain to me how to do it right? I don't mind paying as if I can't get this sorted soon I'm going to have to pay out for formula milk which is expensive anyway.

Everyone thanks for your advice, every week I decide I am going to give myself another week and then give up... by doing that I have made it to eight weeks.

A decent bf councillor - I will ask my hv when I see her tomorrow. I have had so much conflicting advice. Yes I thought that about the cows (surely cows don't drink milk?) and I didn't think letting my breasts "fill up" sat right with supply and demand.

I think I do need help with positioning, as no matter what I try, we only get it right about one time in ten, maybe one time in twenty! I think once I am confident he is feeding better then at that point I can start thinking about a routine, but not until then.

To give you another idea of some of the help on hand, there was a drop in at the local hospital on Friday morning, the mw who normally does it was off (half term) so we had a different mw. When I told her that I was having problems getting him to latch on properly she said "oh dear, that must be frustrating" and that was it.

If you're sure that only pooing once a week is okay, that really worried me, even more than the slow weight gain.

Norma... you're a star, it would be lovely if you could come around this afternoon, you don't have to take him off my hands though it would just be nice to see you again and have a shoulder to moan on!!

OK

I have stuff I have to get done today (and I shouldn't really be on here at the moment - DD is asleep and I should be getting stuff done!). Once she is awake I will get chores and stuff done and then come over, but don't know what time it will be.

Oh - and I will stay for a tea and a chat but then I will take him out for an hour. It sounds like you could do with a little bit of time for yourself while you don't need to worry about him.

Norma if you are busy it is okay, as dh is going to be leaving work about four today, so he can take him off my hands for a bit!

Mossie - re the pooing - a newborn should poo 3 or 4 times a day I think, but at some point (6-7 weeks? tiktok will know) their guts seem to change and b/f babies poo much less often as there is little waste. I think at 8 weeks that's probably ok, but I'm sure tiktok can confirm or correct that.

Not that busy. You can't deprive me of the warm glow I will get from being of some use

Hi I'm a bit short on time so I have only read your post and not all the replies. I think sometimes having big boobs or nipples can make bf harder. I squeeze my breast just before the nipple gently to make it stick out a bit more into my baby's mouth (sorry if this is a bit graphic). Leaves my elbow poking out into mid-air which isn't very discreet ! Also try wiping your baby's mouth halfway through so that it isn't all slippery with milk (or infacol in the case of my baby). I find it is easier for the baby to 'get a grip' if you try and make your nipple more pointy rather than trying to latch onto a huge globe ! Have you got a local bf support group ? Hope you can figure it out, I also had troubles it's so disheartening. Take care.

tortoise is right - it's to do with the maturing of the reflexes as well. Infreqent poo in a baby of more than a few weeks is fine, as long as everything else is ok. It's not an issue in itself. You will see different ages mentiooned - I wd say it cn be fine after about 4 wks but other texts say later.

OI - no phone numbers on here you numpty!

I have your number already

I have asked MNHQ to remove it

Mossie - has he been checked for tongue tie? I know it's my stock response to these things these days, but honestly your DS sounds exactly, EXACTLY like mine. He was diagnosed with TT when he was 5 months old - it was too late for us. Otherwise, listen to all the good advice from Mears and Tiktok and good luck!

D'oh Norma I hadn't thought about that, sleep deprived brain!

Twinklemegan I haven't had him checked, would I ask the health visitor? Surely someone would have noticed though? I will ask her tomorrow to check.

I'm sure you will all shoot me down in flames but i had exactly the same problems with Dd2 although Dd1 was fine bf til 8/9 months. I gave Dd2 a bottle at 8 weeks and we never looked back, i had the usual guilt to begin with but when she became a happy calm baby who gained weight i knew we had done the right thing for us, sometimes you have to do whats best for you and not what you think is expected of you...

Suzie71 I'm not shooting anyone down in flames, I just want to know that if I do give up, I can look back and say, "I really did try", and just yet, I don't feel I've tried everything, iyswim.

My only advice to you is try until youre ready to give up. think about why you really want to continue with it... i'd love to say i breastfed Dd2 til she was 6 months but it just wasn;t working and we were both miserable... my friend kept going with a hungry baby with all of the same feeding problems for 5 months and then gave him a bottle and he was a different baby!! she wishes she had given up sooner... Good on you if you want to keep trying but just remember he's yr baby yr his mum and its yr choice.. i think there is sometimes to much pressure to be wondermum and sometimes somethings gotta give.. good luck. keep smiling it really does get better which ever way you choose..

Hello Mossy you poor old sausage.

Only one suggestion from me...

Has anyone shown you the rugby hold? I've now got big, floppy norks & huge areoles (lovely) and that hold was a revelation.

I'm back on the cradle hold now, but if DS is being fussy I go back to rugby.

And well done for making it this far!

Mossie Hi

Sorry to hear you still have worries about your latch and the feeding.

The things I've tried with sleepy babies are:

Spacing out feeds - even if it means walking for two hours. That way, when he does latch on he's actually hunf=gry so has a good feed

Squeezing my nipple into a conical shape to make it easier to latch, plaus btreast massage and expressing a drop before hand to make it flow easier

Opening the windows - my nipples get erect when they're cold which makes latching so much easier - plus if its cold, baby will stay awake as its less comfortable

Letting him cry a bit before picking him up - if he's still hald asleep he'll just drop off to sleep again after a few mouthfuls

latching by hooking his bottom lip/chin on first and waiting until his mouth is wide open - sometimes it takes several latches until its right. My baby also has a not-very-wide-open mouth

Sounds a bit cruel I know, but it just means he's hungry when he feeds and gets a good feed.

[big hugs] to you and LO

I seem to feed non stop and so I just have to sit on mumsnet breastfeeding, and eating and I'm far too busy breast feeding to clean the house or do anything boring

So don't give up yet, in a months time you too could be like me!

The lack of sleep is a nightmare I know, I was in a bad way with sleep deprivation for a long time with the last baby. Also he was a small baby and all my friends and sisters younger babies were bigger than him, but he's a fine 2.6 year old now, (still smaller build than my others.)

Anyway Mossy, just wanted to add my best wishes.

hello my dd is 3 wks old and i really understand how you feel. As i type she is attached to me and has been on and off all morning. I bf successfully with my last ds and had none of this, he had read the baby books before he came out i think! This time it has been very difficult, lots of problems with latching on painfull nipples and mastitus. I contacted nct breast feeding line(you don't have to be a member) they gave me no.s of local bf councilers, and a really great lady came out and sat with me at home for ages helping me to get it right. She has given me the confidence to continue. Advice from m.w. and h.v. was conflicting and not helpfull! I really hope you get the support to help you continue in whatever way suits you and your baby.

Hi Mossie! Can´t really advise you as you might have seen I´m going through some probs as well but just wanted to pop in to give you some moral support.. you are doing great getting to 8 weeks, really really. To me that feels like forever away ( at 5 weeks + 4) and yes, I do think the day (or week) at a time approach helps get us through.

I´ve got large aereola too and I think it does make it harder as there´s no WAY the poor thing could get all of it in his mouth LOL. You might aswell get him checked for tongue tie, it wouldn´t necessarily have been picked up, no one picked up on my lo´s, we spotted it.

Wishing you all the luck in the world with getting it sorted asap, sometimes it does just feel like it´s going to finish you off, doesn´t it?? x

And at unhelpful health workers. Saw the paed. nurse today to weigh him cos of poor weight gain in the previous fortnight and she asked how feeding was going, I said ´not that great actually, we´re having loads of problems and finding it quite hard´ response : ´uh-huh´ (in a distracted, looking at something else way). So why did you ASK??!

Mossie - have you tried breast compression? That might help get more milk into him

this site is really helpful with breastfeeding problems Can't remember if I posted a link on your last thread or not.

hey Mossie - the rugby ball (or football) position as mentioned lower down by some clever MNer is on this link called the Clutch Hold.