The difference between being passionate and being militant

[hunkermunker]

I am passionate about women who want to being supported to breastfeed by healthcare professionals (and the wider community).

But I am not militant. Militant suggests having no sensitivity to personal circumstance, no understanding that it's not "the same" for everyone and that women aren't to blame for the failings of those who are meant to be supporting them.

So, just because I want more women to have the support to breastfeed and for the wider community to understand that it is an acceptable thing to see every day, it doesn't mean I'm inconsiderate, or wanting women to feel guilty if they don't breastfeed. I just want women who feel awful about stopping breastfeeding (and there are thousands of them) to have the help to continue.

Isn't that pretty reasonable, really?

Sorry, harpsi, you can't be a militant, you're not horrible enough.

I have to say, I've never met IRL anyone bullying women to bf - my experience is the exact opposite.

night hunker
night jools
night Walter
night jimbob
xx

night Welliemum

or is it good morning?

lunchtime.

See, you're no good at snarling!

Night.

Night, Harpsi.

of pebble upgrade.

night mili

tant

I'm a militant feminist too you know

night harpshi

And a militant pacifist too, I hope... Oh, she's gone.

Anyway, related to what harpsi was saying - tricky subject, but I agree, it's not always a good idea to be so careful of people's feelings that you can't talk about the health issues of bf vs ff.

There's now a lot of very good evidence "out there" that this has big and possibly life-long consequences. It's not academic - it's about real babies and real lives.

If someone feels hurt at hearing how much better bf is, that's very hard - but ultimately, I would give more weight to good information for women vs being tactful. Not because people's feelings are unimportant - not AT ALL - but because impact of bf on lives is EVEN MORE important.

[outs self as passionate, or anyway ranty, but I hope not militant or fanatical]

Indeed welliemum.

On a subject tangent, its similar with discussions on rape or abuse. Some folk dont want to read/see stuff about it because its painful.

HOwever, half the battle with helping folk deal with this kind of thing is to talk about it, not be ashamed of it etc.

Its hard to strike a balance and be sensitive when clearly a subject needs to be talked about to make things better.

oh, here you all are, furtively discussing what brilliant lactaters you are...

i thought that it was interesting what GGrrrr said on that thread, that it did us no good to fight amongst ourselves as it might allow Bev and Ivan (Bevan? i think Not) to slip off the hook. i also thoguth that it was interesting that it was a new poster who came on and wilfully misunderstood/ignored the point being made, almost as if to better facilitate hook slipping...

hunks i think the thing is that you're funny, and when people argue with you and they purposefully misconstrue what you're saying you don't just say 'well, no', you also turn the funny up to 11 and (uuum, thick) people don't know how to handle that and get offended. not you, ladymuck, but there have been others.

Ah, Aitch, I think fast, I type fast and I am cutting as heck sometimes.

And I have the fatal flaw of "not being able to resist a joke", however ill-advised. I am Working On That though.

don't, by christ. too many boring people on here as it is. i've honestly been finding it a stretch to post here recently it's been so weird.

The fact is, it wont matter, because some folk will always be defensive about this subject, due to their own emotional investment in it.

I agree about winning folk over, but, ultimately, sometimes the end justifies the means.

Clearly you have done far more good than you ever have harm with your posts regarding b/feeding. This is shown over and over with folk asking for you specifically re b/feeding advice. (and of course the lovely tiktok).

Please dont stop being funny. I think I might have to shoot you

Actually, you're right, I don't want to be earnest. Or even Lady Bracknell.

Of course, I am biased, because I bloody love you

Ditto, ditto, VVV

Pleeease don't resist the jokes Hunker.

I think my main frustration with the bf/ff debates is that people mix up their personal feelings with the objective stuff.

So you'll see people saying "Don't worry about changing to formula, as long as you're happy that's what's important". That's a nice thing to say, but actually it's not true. There's potentially a lot more hanging on a choice of ff vs bf than "what will make me happy".

But it's hard to point that out without being accused of not caring.

" think one of the problems is that sometimes people say I couldn't bf because....and some people answer BUT with the right support you could have.

And that's not necessarily true. "

May I to Camelia's post that one of the things that I find more insensitive of some BF passionates/militantes, is the need to insist in convincing the already convinced mother that BF is best and she should have continued trying no matter what the circumstances were. Unfortunately we don't really know the exact circumstances those women were going through (either lack of support, missinformation or plain medical problem) and most importantly, we can't change the past, particularly when the woman in question stopped BF months or years ago, so a bit of more empathy for those women would be appreciated.

I'm completely convinced "Breast is best", I boicot Nestle, I think I may have helped some women to choose BF and to keep going when problems arised but sometimes when I read the BF threads I feel the need to run a mile when a poor woman says she couldn't breastfeed and some persons feel the need to tell her she should have continued no matter the circumstances ignoring anything said woman can say on her defense, and that sort of attitude won't help at all, actually the effect may be quite the oposite. That person may be sensitive (with good reason) and I think that sensitivity should be noted and respected.

yes but no but yes but

I am a bit millitant really.

I am millitant about the piss poor information, the insiduous misinformation, and general lack of support avalible to many women.

Fine if you're a middle class women in your thirties

When I bf my first child, I was 25, and bloody unusual among my aquaintances. I also worked with still younger women, and bfind rates among poor teenagers is pretty much zilch IME.

Yet these are the babies who NEED bfding. These are the babies who can actually be lifted out of poverty by being bf as a baby.

I honestly can't get massively worked up by stuff like the feed ins, or these scary bfding calenders (I mean wtf? WHY associate bfding with p3 any more than needed). I don't see what they achieve, tbh. They are too soft.

I would never dream of telling another women that they were wrong for ff.

But I AM bloody millitant about all women getting a decent level of information, support and so forth and that is just not in place atm.

Oh and I think all this support etc should be funded by the formula companies, since i is their fault for pushing formula in the 60s and hence depriving our generation of supportive grandparents.

Yes Chandra.
Also with regard to welliemum, personal feelings are part and package of the whole thing because bf is an inter-relationship with the baby involving a whole lot of psychological/physical wotsits.

I agree completely, it's a deeply personal thing, but I think it's good to have both views - to have the insight to understand your own feelings about it, but also be able to step back and see the bigger picture.

It's the personal threads on MN that go nuclear and burn out, and the objective threads that turn up fascinating ideas IMO - and they can be discussing the same topic - it's just impossible to discuss bf if people are taking every comment personally.

I dont know if I am militant or not but I get so worked up with the FF clever markering ploys & lack of support & information some mothers dont get. I also get very frustrated with the grandmothers who are from FF generation who just dont understand the benefits of bfing & wont listen to them as all they say is, "well you, he/she turned out ok" & so that breastfeeding is just a fashionable thing, hardly. However I am the only bfing mum in my close group of friends & have never said anything to them about their choices to ff but I really wish that I could say they havent said anything to me about bfing & how it ties me to the baby, cant believe you are still doing that, why dont you try him on a bottle etc etc etc.
Would being a breastfeeding evangelist a bad thing?