Women in Third World Countries are Still Able to Breastfeed Their Babies

[GeorginaA]

Firstly, please let me apologise, I've woken up in a really pedantic mood. I'm not looking for a fight, honest

It's just this phrase really winds me up, and I'm convinced that it's not helpful to tell mothers who are struggling to feed a statement that has major logical holes in on deeper investigation. I'd be very interested to see the research papers to back up the statement.

What is my problem with it?

• Third World countries cover such a huge, diverse population. People immediately envisage skeletal people in a drought area whenever the words "Third World" are used. But it covers cities, lush areas, etc.
• There is no other information - what's the child mortality rate there? Are there postmortems done on those children? In a famine-ridden area, is the death of young babies just due to disease? Have they a weakened resistance due to lack of nutrition?
• Logically, the nutrition a growing baby needs has to come from somewhere. If the mother doesn't have it in her body it's not going to go to the baby. Yes, the best of what she has may well go to the baby, but then neither is the baby going to survive if the mother doesn't.
• In the type of community imagined by that statement, would the breastfeeding and pregnant mothers get priority on any available food and water?

If what is meant by the third world statement is: "Don't worry, the baby gets the best nutrition from you that you have - if anyone is going to suffer it'll be you long before the baby, so it's worth eating healthily and well from that perspective" then why don't people SAY that?!

I have no idea why it irritates me so much, it's not as if I have strict accuracy in my speech all the time, but it's probably due to a similar statement that was given to me by a midwife who was very anti-epidurals while I was pregnant with ds1: "Women in Africa survive caesareans with only half a Panadol". I so wish I'd thought of a witty comeback at the time ("Really? And what's the mortality rate for mothers during childbirth there?"... "But you've been telling me how perfect childbirth is out in Africa - why the hell would they need a caesarean if everything is so perfect?"... "Some communities in Africa still practise female circumcision and I won't be following that either... now about that epidural" ) but instead I just gave her a withering look and actively avoided her for the rest of the pregnancy.

P.S. I am very pro-breastfeeding btw, but I just hate that statement.

georgina - I totally agree with you!! One of the midwifes I had while in hospital after having dd said, along with many other idiotic things, "Women in the third world breastfeed their babies without any help so you should be able to". This was after about a week of trying to breastfeed and dd not taking to it, losing weight and me being worried sick. So that comment just shoved me over the edge and I dissolved into floods of tears and shouted at her "I couldn't bloody care less what women in the f-ing third world do - half their babies die of malnutrition too but thats not exactly ideal for my baby is it!!". I still felt terrible at the time but looking back on it, it still cheers me up!!

What a stupid comparison to make though, it means absolutely nothing - yes the bfing rate is higher, but so is the disease rate and mortality rate - so what exactly is the point being made???

Oh...and I also demanded to see the mw in charge NOW and told her that if that mw came anywhere near me again while I was there that I'd make an official complaint about her attitude. Strangely I seemed to get nicer, more sensible mw's after that - they still didn't do a thing to help my bf-ing problems and they were still useless but at least they didn't make c**p comments like that.

sorry...started ranting there

Know what you mean. When having my second baby I attended my local antenatal classes. I like the mws - brilliant compared with first lot fro DD1 - so thought I would give them a go. A nutritionist turned up to one meeting to batter us with info about breastfeeding. She started with a "brainstorming session" where we had to call out advantages of breastfeeding over bottle feeding. That was fine, quite happy to do this, didn?t even mind that it was going to be one sided (obviously) and no positive list for advantages of bottle feeding as this was not part of her chosen "message" so let it ride. However, when some of the mums were thowing up clearly incorrect supposed advantages such as "your baby will be brainier if breastfed" and "your child will not get asthma or excema if breastfed" she just wrote them up on the board..I was stunned, didn?t bother to adjust or explain to rest of the group, just wrote these statements up as if they were the gospel truth. At this point I was itching to put my hand up and start a barny but not naturally confrontational and tbh quite interested to see how far she was prepared to let it go. I remember being bored and looking around the room only to see one slogan "just one formula feed can adversely affect the health of your child" - that really got my attention and made me really angry. Waited to the break - for plastic cups of warm water and the obligitory digestive and tackled her on this one. She stood by it rigorously arguing that one formula feed can be enough to make your baby lose all interest in breastfeeding and thereforeas breastfeeding has health advantages over bottlefeeding, it could, in theory, affect your babies health. She refused to acknowledge the "scare factor" in such a sweeping statement and basically told me that I was overreacting...
So, yeah, I am right behind you on when it comes to really pointless antagonistic statements - they make me livid too

I know what you mean. This sort of statement is meant to make you feel humbled and guilty for not doing it. When in truth it is irritating and out of context. Do midwives have a knowledge of the third world. As part of their training do they fly over there and study breast feeding in the third world?

It is like saying the third world manage without cars, a semi detached house and clean water so we should. It is all about socialisation and instinct. At the end of the day breast is a choice of the mother and a personal choice that should not be challanged by the medical profession. Although I feel that help and support should be offered to breast feeding mothers this sort of Sanctimonious unhelpful statement is not helpful in the slightest.

To be fair, I hadn't viewed the "women in the third world can still breastfeed" comment as sanctimonious - I've always encountered it as a genuine attempt to reassure someone who thinks they might not be getting enough calories to feed the babe.

While it's well meaning (and fair enough, in the western world, diet is generally good enough for it not to be an issue) - it just feels like a sweeping and unhelpful statement. I also don't think it would necessarily hold in a famine situation (in other animals, when resources are sparce the baby can be "sacrificed" in order to save the mother - the mother can always breed again. Horrible thought, I know, but evolution/nature is harsh) and I would like to see the actual research that backs that up which takes all the other factors I mentioned into consideration.

Georgina - if you had my midwife you would feel stronger!

LOL... swap you for my mad "panadol" woman (and yes, apparently she had spent some time out in Africa...)

I don't find it particularly annoying, as it is basically true - that, except in cases of true famine or quite severe deprivation - breastmilk quality and quantity is very similar (not identical, but amazingly similar) the world over despite huge differences in maternal diet. So many women (including on Mumsnet) genuinely panic that their breastmilk isn't 'good enough quality' or that they aren't producing 'enough' milk because they aren't eating loads of special foods or drinking enough fluids, but that really is a confidence issue, not a dietary one. However, that message is clearly not being got over very well if it makes women feel less confident rather than more ! The point is, you don't have to eat more or eat special foods to have perfect breastmilk for your baby. Of course a decent diet is a good idea for your general health, and it may even marginally increase the amount of some vitamins your breastmilk , but in the West we just don't have the problems that arise in developing countries or famine regions. However, what I do think is interesting is that the worry about having 'enough' and 'good enough' breastmilk is universal, even in countries where breastfeeding is traditional and near universal. Infant mortality in very poor regions is strongly linked to giving formula and weaning generally, as this is when the food poisoning bacteria (usually from dirty water) get into babies' systems, causing diarrhoea, which is a major cause of infant mortality. And it happens earlier than you might think - even in Africa only 25% of babies are exclusively breastfed to 6months. I have also seen research, though I can't lay my hands on it right now, to show that while breastfed, outside famine areas, infant mortality is low - comparable to that in the West, but it soars when breastfeeding ends, either to feed another child, or due to weaning.

A very good site full of stats for fact-fans is the United Nations site, which you can find if you Google: breast milk maternal diet composition (it's the top result) or search on www.unu.edu

Good post aloha. Dh is from a developing country and was amazed when we had ds at the amount of worries people here have about bf. Even where he is from sadly it has become fashionable and seen as you have money if you give formula due to the influences of the west and nestle.

When ds was born and I was struggling to feed and bleeding it was bloody irritating to have him shocked that I would be so ready to quit. I didnt quit but was very ready to.

I think what annoys me is this.

Ds wouldnt feed from my breast. At one point I had one midwife holding my boob and a woman (who was apparently a breast feeding expert) latching ds on. For various reasons it was not working and we tried and tried. Different positions, boobs, expressing, the lot for days and days until I was bleeding. In the end ds was so hungry that I gave in and bottle fed.

I felt upset about the situation and the last thing I would have wanted to hear was that women (anywhere in the world to be honest!) can do it and I cant! That is unhelpful and upsetting to an already hormonal woman.

hercules - my post crossed with yours and was not in response!

Also, what no-one mentions is that even in cultures where BF is normal, there are still some situations where it cannot be established. Where formula and clean drinking water is not available, babies die. Doesn't happen v.often nowadays, but was certainly not unheard of.

I find it maddening too. And, incidentally, it's a real blanketing of 'third world countries' - does it include my cousin, a rather well-qualified doctor, in India? (She's breastfed fine, by the way.) Although not as maddening IMO as 'all this fuss about pain in childbirth doesn't happen in "traditional societies"'...yeah, right, that's why every single literary and oral tradition perpertrated by WOMEN says that it's the most painful thing that can happen to you...

I'm wondering where you saw that phrase Georgina? Not that I don't agree with you, I do, but its a phrase similar to those used by Unicef et al, to counteract the agressive marketing of formula in less developed countries. The effect of this, mainly by !"£$%^&() Nestle is a huge increase in infant mortality - dirty water, lack of steralised equipment etc, leads to babies suffering from diahorrea and dehydration. Instructions are rarely in the local language and although Nestle kindly provide just enuf supplies, free, to last until breast milk dries up, mothers then have to pay for it and the cost is prohibitive, so they often overdilute.
4000 babies die daily from this, much of it down to bloody Nestle. Organisations such as Unicef and baby milk action campaign to counteract their activities. One of Nestles little tricks is to convince mothers, (by having sales reps wearing nurse-type outfits) that in the West, babies are bottle fed and healthier, and that breastfeeding will make the mother unwell, if she can bf at all - hence the statement
Rant over

Good rant Lisa78. Nestle are evil . I'm so cross they keep buying up chocolate companies I like.........there is very little choccie I can buy now without supporting them !!
mit x

Does this not boil down to lack of support and training from health professionals? Far too many women struggle to bf, far too many are made to feel guilty if they choose not to bf.

It seems as though health professionals are either pushing you to formula feed or making you feel crap for not bf.

Lisa: it's just cropped up in a few places recently in "real" and "online" conversations whenever calories+breastfeeding comes up. As I say, it's always said with the best intentions, it's just the broadsweep generalisation that irritates me.

But surely it is used to demonstrate that it is possible to bf even if you are on a poor diet as women who are far less nourished still breastfeed. It's not saying there arent other reasons why bf isnt successful nor that all women in developing countries bf.
Lots of hvs tell mums that they need to eat such and such, and increase calories etc to increase quality and quantity of bm. That makes me cross!
The point of the saying is to show what a load of bull that is.

I've only seen it in relation to companies such as Nestle, but I think you're right, it shows that bf is possible with the worst nutrition (tho at my antenatal classes, the loony midwife we had informed us that nutrition was vital and women in these countries couldn't bf cos they were malnourished - she didn't like being disagreed with )
The use of the phrase as a "pull yourself together and get on with it" is just pants, I had awful trouble bf and felt shite about it, for four months and if someone had said that to me, they would have left minus their head!

I remember being told to bf even though I was bleeding! It's like being told to write when your finger is hanging off by the tendon. Thankgod for breastshields!

MIT, can you get fair-traded chocolate in the Land of Bush?