Pain and feel like giving up - handhold?

[BabyOrSanta]

DD is 18 days old. EBF so far. Labour was good but I had a tear. She's overall a good baby.

Last Sunday I was unwell so I went back to the hospital. Got given antibiotics.
Tuesday night DD wouldn't feed properly and it hurt. We'd previously gone through the cracked/bleeding nipples and she was a dream to feed. Friday we went to the doctors as she has thrush in her mouth and I've got it on my nipples. He gave me Canesten and said it should clear up her's too.
Last night I expressed and cup/bottle fed to give me a break.
This morning it's almost killed me to feed her and I had to unlatch her as it hurt so much.

Has anyone been through this? It hurts so so much and I don't know what to do. It feels like a cat is licking my nipples repeatedly. Plus she hadn't gained at her last weight check (which hv said was fine) so I think I'm putting myself under a bit of pressure to get milk in her.

Please tell me it will get better again?

Thank you

And thank you all for all the support and info

Urgh. So I seem to have a rash on my nipples again.
She still has some white stuff on her gums but I only have the smallest dribble of her medicine left. As I went through OOH I'm wondering if the GP will prescribe more over the phone?

I don't know whether I posted this but the HV said her medicine should be taken:
4x1ml per day
7 days + 2 extra to ensure it's cleared
Therefore I needed 36ml... the bottle only contained 30ml and I know I've completely spilt at least 1ml (trying to get it into her mouth, she hit my hand and it went everywhere).

What I'm thinking now is, even if I started FF, I would still have to treat both of us and I'd have gone through all this for nothing.

Got an appointment with the BF HV today so I'm hoping she has more pointers and can tell me how to get more of this medicine.

I'd call these surgery for a repeat prescription... They'll have all of the details from the OOH so should be able to do it no worries.

You're really going through it OP, you poor thing! Hopefully you're in the home straight now.

I've decided to give up BF.
Seriously can't hack this anymore and DD only put 2oz on this week. BF HV said that if she doesn't gain loads by next week she'll have to be admitted to hospital and given formula (tbh she didn't listen to anything I said, even how to pronounce DDs name... so even if she gained a pound, I'm guessing she would still refer her...).

So over this shit now. As if it's not hard enough having a newborn and then all of this on top.

I feel like I should just hand the baby over to MIL like she wants (always wanted a girl but got 3 boys). Feel like a completely shit mother.

Oh OP! I'm so sorry this is happening after things were looking up for you guys on the bf front.

You are not a shit mother. Look at everything you have been through for your daughter! You have tried so hard and that's being an excellent mother, regardless of the outcome.

HV sounds really unhelpful... Regardless of whether her advice is right or not she shouldn't be making your feel like you are too not being listened to.

Your baby needs to gain weight and formula will do that... Giving her formula isn't a failure, you are making the best decision possible for her in these circumstances. I have never understood why some women make others feel crap for giving formula... It's food specifically designed for babies and contains all of the nutrients and minerals they need.

I am not trying to change your mind, I absolutely respect your decision to feed your baby however you want. I just want to let you know that if you did want to continue to breastfeed a bit, you can do both. Even if it is just to reduce your supply gradually before stopping completely. Please do read some guidance on stopping too as the last thing you need is mastitis on top of everything else!

Get DP to sort out MIL if she's becoming a problem... Sometimes MILs don't know when to back off and don't realise how draining they are being. Mine is at PITA so you have my sympathy.

Allow yourself some time to get over this experience, regardless of whether you keep bfing a bit or just go straight to formula. I had problems feeding my first baby and tried for 6 weeks (you have done much better than me!) before giving up and accepting it just wasn't going to happen. Once I'd made the decision to stop everything improved so much for us as the pressure was off and I was able to really enjoy him.

Good luck with everything... Please do come back and chat if you want to. There are lots of women who have had similar experience to you and lots of women who can't breastfeed for lots of reasons. You are not alone.

Sending you a massive hug.

You're not shit! You're taking control and making a decision for the sake of your LO and your sanity. That is what an excellent mother does.

I am so sorry you've had such a tough start to motherhood.

Now it's less raw...
I saw the bf hv on Tuesday.

Highlights of our meeting include:
DD only putting 2oz on in a week (we got the medicine Tuesday night, she didn't start eating more than a little until Friday/Saturday)

Her telling me DD was going to have to be admitted to hospital and fed formula if she didn't put weight on in a week

Her not listening whatsoever to me saying she'd had thrush and growing out of her sleepsuits (length ways)

Her very roughly checking DD over for (what I'm assuming) bruises

Her attempting to wake DD after 2 full boobs. Didn't work at all, either aggressively (I felt) patting her back or not-gently blowing in her face

Telling me to freeze thrushy breast milk (complete no no as the candida fungus just goes dormant in the cold, you have to ultra heat to kill it). This is after I'd done my research and my normal hv had said it has to be thrown away... which I told her but she said we were wrong

Telling me to pump loads. No thank you. It's never been a supply issue as I pumped all through thrush and seem to make quite a bit of milk... I sometimes feel like I could feed a whole herd of calves...

Not even looking at the list of questions I'd written (Like, what is the rash on DDs head)

When I first went in, I changed DD and she cried as always. Horrible hv kept coming and opening the door to the baby changing room. I'm assuming to check I wasn't swinging her round by her legs...

Plus some other stuff

The only reason I can think that she did this was because I had to change DD as soon as I got there as she was napping when we left and I noticed she needed her nappy changing. It's less than 5 minutes door to door and I knew she'd wake up as soon as we got out of the car anyway. Also, I had dressed DD as a little girl (mini jeans and a t shirt over a babygrow) as I have a few outfits she's never worn and thought I might as well "dress her up" for going out as we never go anywhere else.
As you can imagine, all this really upset me as she just judged me from the moment I walked in.
So I took it and then went back to the rest of the bf group mums while trying not to cry. When I knew she'd gone I decided to leave. The lovely receptionist commented on how long DD has got and I just broke down. This attracted the nice hv who also runs the group and they both calmed me down enough to drive home.
The next morning the nice hv phoned and said she'd spoken to my hv as she was worried how upset I was. Nice hv arranged to come Thursday morning and re-weigh DD, discuss my options (ff, combi, bf) and my hv will see mr next week. And I will never have to see horrible hv again. Ever again.
Nice hv was, well, really nice. First thing she did was weigh DD. She'd gained 4.5oz in 2 days... which I took as a massive f you to nasty hv... nice hv then said DD is obviously getting better and she really boosted my confidence and said that DD is very very strong and very tall (she'd pushed up on her legs while I was holding her so you could see all her tall, thin body). She also answered all the questions nasty didn't and saw DD move her head loads unaided (nasty had said I needed to support her head more... kind of impossible when she's looking round all the time...). She basically said DD is thriving and hopefully that's the last of the set backs. She also noticed the stress induced angry hives on my hands and arms...

So that was earlier this week.

This morning I got up to feed DD at about 3 and couldn't get warm again... DP disagreed and said I was boiling...
(Amusing anecdote - I said I'd give him a blow job if he got up with DD at 5... I, of course, claimed not to remember this as I was obviously talking crap coz I had a fever )
Phoned 111 and eventually went in. As they were taking my blood pressure, I noticed Leftie (the non favoured boob) was bright red.

So yes. I now have thrush AND mastitis. I am so lucky...
and I am still bf but also feeding expressed bottles.

I just thought I would update you all since you've all given me so much support

Shit, that was long. Sorry about that!

@BabyOrSanta bloody hell! You are really going through it! You poor thing... I hope you have had some drugs and rest by now and are starting to feel a bit better. I hope your partner is doing some good quality spoiling too.

You are coping amazingly well to still be BFing and giving expressed bottles... I would have given up by now I think! Sounds like your daughter has really turned the corner now and is gaining weight etc well, hopefully the thrish and mastitis will be gone in a day or so and you will be onto the plain-sailing part of feeding.

When you are feeling a bit better, could you write to the powers that be about horrible HV? Your experience was absolutely awful and it would be good to let someone know so that she doesn't make any other new mothers feel the way you did. She is also giving out some dubious advice so needs some additional training... (And a slap with a wet fish too by the sounds of it!) I had a couple of terrible experiences with HVs (I am in London and never see the same one twice) and their treatment really contributed to the PND I had after my first baby.

Some HVs are brilliant but some are absolutely terrible and the terrible ones give the good ones such a bad name - it's a real shame. Excellent that you can see the nice HV from now on, she sounds much more supportive and understanding.

I hope you are feeling better today!

The nice health visitor said that nasty would be spoken to about upsetting me and making me cry and said 3 times over the half hour she was here that if I want to make a formal complaint she would give me all of the contact details. She also apologised about 20 times. She also agreed that I could completely opt out of the hv service altogether and sympathised that I'd given up my appointment with my hv for this one...

I am wondering why I started this whole bf game right now!

Oh and I have drugs and am creating an amazing amount of sweat... I think it's the fever coming out but I really smell!

At least all this pumping (rather than straight feeding) has given my poor thrushy nipples a bit of time off. I think it's helped both of us in that way.

Thank you for your support, you've been amazing (I never intended for this to be an epic tale and, in the nicest way, I wish it would end now with a "and they all lived happily ever after". I mean, what more can me and DD get? Am touching wood while typing...)

Well, I'm still going.
DD's latch has gone to pot completely.
I'm massively struggling today as she's just continuously shallow latching. My nipples seem to be too small for nipple shields. I have so much milk but it's still taking ages to express. I don't even like breastfeeding. I have absolutely no personal space, my boobs are out more than they're in at the moment (after being able to discreetly feed her in public a few weeks ago). My arms hurt, my boobs hurt, everything hurts.
She's 6 weeks on Wednesday and I can't wait. Hit the magical 6 weeks and we can give up (and bang go my dreams of extended bf)

Sorry @BabyOrSanta that you're still struggling.
You've done fantastically to get to the 6 week mark.
I really believe the saying happy mum happy baby!

You have done so bloody well.

Getting through the first few months is the hardest. I had late milk and supply issues and my baby got an infection at 2 weeks old which just made him too sleepy to feed well... we combi feed now at nearly 6 months old, mainly cos I tried stopping and the hormones made me feel so terrible that I just had to keep going to feel ok...

But don't feel guilty if you want to formula feed for "selfish" (god I hate phrasing it like that but you know what I mean) reasons.

You need to feel happy and it's about finding the best way to that. Whether breastfeeding makes oh happy so you can find a way to continue or you formula feeding would make you happy, it's all ok to do something for you.

A friend of mine went to baby yoga and the instructor said "give fuel to yourself so you can give it to your baby"

Tonnes of love and strength, you're doing a brilliant job!

Makes you happy not oh!

Hi @babyorsanta, sorry to have missed you the last few days, I have been off MN with my crazy children.

You have done a brilliant job to get this far with breastfeeding - you have had such a crap time of it.

I had a really tough time with my first baby and couldn't feed him... I was broken hearted when I finally gave up as like you, I had thought I would breastfeed to at least a year and I was so disappointed.

I felt like I had let him down but in reality, he didn't care a jot as long as he was being fed and after a couple of days of not bfing I felt loads better and started to really enjoy my baby.

I guess I just wanted to share my experience to say that you are not alone and that your baby will be happy whatever you do. You have done so well to get this far and if you are happy, your baby will be happy. Fed really is best...

I hope you are having a better day today. x

OP how are you?
My DD3 is 5months old, the only of the three I have breastfed. It has been the hardest thing I have done.
She had tongue tie which was not picked up by a midwife but by the breastfeeding support group I referred myself to at the hospital. After to and fro-Ing she had it cut at 2 weeks old. I expected the get better, but didn't.
So saw NCT group where the lactation lady said the tongue tie had either re healed or not cut properly, so back to square one. Ended up having it cut again-this time in a private clinic costing £150 (no saving from not buying formula!). That was at 6weeks, then took another 4-5weeks for me to "get it".
Just as I thought finally we've got this she was admitted to hosp with bronchiolitis. She had to have a feeding tube fitted because it was so difficult to latch with her oxygen tubes.
I so wanted to give up, but continued purely to say I could. But still then I was ridiculously guilty feeling like I was stopping her feeding properly just so I could say I'd breastfed her.
I felt so let down by all the health professionals who drum into you to breastfeed. And then I couldn't. HV were always just telling me it was a latch issue.
I'm sorry this is so long, I've not written all this out before it's like a therapy.
I really hope you're feeling better and that your baby is happy xxxxxxx

I am still reading - I'm just a complete mess most of the time atm and am now on anti anxiety medication it's got to me so bad.

@babyorsanta I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time... Your mental health has to be the priority here, please just do whatever you need to to feel better. Nothing is worth feeling this way. Your baby loves you so much and all she needs is you, however your feed her. Sending you a very unmumsnetty hug. X

@BabyOrSanta I'm in exactly the same position. Thrush and mastitis (but my LO is 7mo)

Both me and LO are on fluconazole for the thrush (he's also had the Daktarin gel) and I'm now on antibiotics for the mastitis.

Nipples torn to shreds, I'm dreading feeds, and really hope there's light at the end of this tunnel.

No real advice, just wanted to say I know how you feel and have had to battle with some unhelpful health care professionals myself too

So, since last update.

DD has 2x formula bottles a day as...

My anxiety hit new highs, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep and DP had to have time off work as I couldn't cope. I know it sounds whiny and maybe a little immature but I couldn't get out of bed, I was so worried by how much she was eating. So I was expressing and, basically, killing myself with it all. I couldn't even sit with my beloved dogs and, although I was on here a bit, I haven't even been able to read much. Except about baby weight gain. And baby latching techniques. And failure to thrive babies. And ingredients in formula (we're strict vegetarians and there are some veggie formulas out there - I could now give you a detailed list of what every one of them contains!). And tongue tie.

So. Tongue tie. I was giving her 8oz bottles and she was still hungry. At 4/5 weeks old. Why? Because she was wearing most of it. Very little was actually going in compared to how much we were giving her. So I called the National Breastfeeding Helpline as a last resort. Told her about the breastfeeding. Told her about the bottle. She said she thought DD had tongue tie.

Can we recap? At 3 days old I asked the mw to check if she had tongue tie. At 3 weeks old I asked the bitchface hv if she had tongue tie. At 6 weeks (last Tuesday) I asked the GP if she had tongue tie. All had a little look. All said definitely not.

So, hoping to recover some of my sanity and have a last ditch attempt at bf, I called a tt snipper (official term there!). She said she'd come the next day, an hour before the hv. There would be a call out charge and another charge if she snipped it.

Guess what? I was right. Dd had tongue tie. That's why it was taking an hour to even bottle feed her. That's why she was going into a dead sleep after 20-30 minutes at the breast. She couldn't get the bloody milk. And they were going to force feed my baby because of something they had missed! Apparently it was an obvious one and she had it snipped and fed straight away, gulping the milk down.

Both our moods instantly lifted and I was grinning from ear to ear like a looney.

We're still bf even if it's combi feeding (which I think we will continue for the foreseeable). I'm on anti anxiety meds. I've managed to browse eBay for non feeding/pumping related things. DD and I are sat on the sofa writing this with my beloved pups sat next to us, all cuddled in. She keeps feeding on and off and I'm in very little pain (but I have a doctors appointment to pre empt the new bout of mastitis this afternoon - no down-in-the-dumps leaving it for me, not like last week).

The best bit about this update though is that DD gained TEN BLOODY OUNCES last week, pre snip!!!! She is now an 8lb baby!!!

Sorry for the epic post but you all supported me so much and I've reread everything time and again. You're all stars

So pleased for you @BabyOrSanta
Xxx

Wow! That's brilliant and well done both of you!

Thank you
Unfortunately we're both snotty today but I'm still hoping for some weight gain this week (hv is just popping in as she's so so curious about the tt).
If she doesn't gain I DON'T CARE.
Compared to the last 3 weeks I think this is a miraculous improvement!