Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Close to giving up with 4month old ds2, using nipple shields, dreadful latch, help!

71 replies

accessorizewithbabysick · 08/04/2007 16:17

Please, I do want to be persuaded to keep on with this, I find some things about breastfeeding really lovely but nearly every feed is uncomfortable because he just won't latch properly & never really has. I was in tears today and yesterday because of this, it's like an endurance contest & my neck, shoulders & back (and nipples of course) are aching so much I'm taking pain killers every day.

I started using nipple shields from birth nearly because they're flat, managed to get him off them to some extent but can't get him to gape properly so often end up going back to shields as my nipples hurt so much. Have rung the NCT 3 times, had a BFC come to see me and also rang La Leche last week. They've suggested lots of things, and I've tried them all but I really feel that now it's either put up with the pain & discomfort or go onto formula. I want to keep onto until 6 months because of asthma & eczema in the family, but this is just ruling my life & I can't take any more of it like this. He feeds about 7 times during the day & sleeps 12 hours at night which is my salvation thus far.

Any more advice, can I pay for a bfc to come and see me as the NCT one just suggested lying back on lots of pillows & letting him crawl up me. Which was fine, but doesn't really work in a cafe on a straight backed chair. Thanks so much

OP posts:

dueat44 · 12/04/2007 17:54

I found nipple shields the answer, I must say.

macneil · 12/04/2007 18:53

I never managed to make my baby latch, but right at the end of my breastmilk days, she would latch on in the bath. I mention this because I have very large breasts,
i very
flat, very large nipples, and my baby was born with a tiny mouth, that she would screw up to the size of a pinprick. It was actually funny how small her mouth could become, like she was doing it to take the p*ss out of me. But it was interesting when she managed to latch in the bath (and only in the bath) that I could see how breastfeeding would have worked and might work for another baby, if I'm ever lucky enough to have one, despite the flat nipples. It seems to be something to do with the softness of the breast - my breasts never used to seem soft enough to do it, and I couldn't squeeze the flesh into a mouth-friendly shape. But I think the mouth size has
i definitely
got a lot to do with it. I do think you should persevere because as I say, I could see how the nipple shape genuinely didn't seem to make a difference once she'd got the hang of it, and your baby isn't horrified by your breasts, as mine was. I'm sorry I can't help with the pain because I am useless at breastfeeding, but don't think you have to give up because of nipple shape, and remember also that your baby's mouth will grow and he'll get better at doing it.

macneil · 12/04/2007 18:54

sorry, I keep doing the wrong formatting! Will check before posting next time.

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 12/04/2007 20:03

thanks all! Some useful advice to follow up on & I really appreciate the encouragement
I must follow up on the tongue tie lazycow, I haven't even looked at his tongue yet the days fly by with 2 now! And thrush I hadn't even considered, but I don't think I have that kind of pain, it's just nipples I think. I managed to express enough so that my mum could feed him today (just once tho) and it made quite a difference having that break so I'm rethinking mixed feeding. If it keeps me bf for longer, worth it.
Macneil, I don't even know if my baby's mouth is small, but I suspect he just doesn't open it very wide. I did have the same prob with both my children. You know, I did try to feed him once in the bath & it was v.comfy, I must try again this weekend. I wonder why that would work? Sorry it was too late for you, but thanks for sharing to help me

OP posts:

lillochum · 12/04/2007 22:57

Good to hear you are carrying on carrying on - keep up the good work Accessorize!

Lio · 13/04/2007 10:18

good for you

magicfairy · 13/04/2007 10:37

dont know if you are still watching this thread, if you are well done for lasting soo long. I would def get checked for tounge tie. My ds had tounge tie and the first month was sheer agony/hell, then after realising he had tt and had it snipped, done by nct bfc, feeding got a little better but still hurt. i thought it was just going to be painful all the time, then i changed my position and now feed him whilst holding him with the same side arm with that side leg crossed ( hope that makes sense) this isnt how you are told to do it, but the change was remarkable and the pain was gone. he is now 7 months and still bf, hope this helps

Bubblemummy · 13/04/2007 13:25

Hi accessorize, just want to let you know that I had problems with BF my DS until he was just over 4 months old. I was worried because all the books I read and advice I recieved told me that the discomfort and pain should be gone by 8 weeks. I tried many different things (like you have been doing), but I really couldn't say which one (if any) worked. It just seemed that one day DS learned to latch on properly, and ever since then we have had no problems with feeding. A few bits of practical advice I got from my BFC were:

Try to keep good posture - bring your baby to you, don't hunch over or try to poke the nipple into the baby's mouth! This helps with back pain.

Make sure you hold your baby at the level of your nipple - don't let your nipple be pulled or dragged down (I think this is why feeding lying down can be easier, I found lying down one of he most comfortable positions); and

Don't continue feeding if the latch is bad. If you know it is bad start again, even if your baby is getting milk, because it will only reinforce bad habits.

I think it's a good idea to get as much advice as possible, but just remember that it really depends on the baby, too. I know of someone who had no trouble feeding her first child, but had a lot of trouble BF her second.

Good on you for persevering, I hope that your situation improves soon. It may just improve suddenly like mine did.

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 15/04/2007 20:53

Just wanted to say thanks again esp to bubblemummy & magicfairy for their advice. Trying to get to gp this week & will ask about tongue tie (and pnd cos I seem to have developed it but that's another story). Things are better though, he's feeding for less time with each feed aside from the bedtime one. And I'm trying not to put up with a poor latch although tbh they're all poor! Hopefully one day he might well get the hang of it. Couldn't quite figure out the position you suggested magicfairy - I think I do this sometimes on the left. I suspect a better position might make all the difference but can't get anyone to look at me!

OP posts:

thehairybabysmum · 16/04/2007 13:16

Glad its going a bit better for you.

I forgot to say that i used to express after the morning feed and then use this for the evening feed. It was a great help for me to have jsut one feed in the day that i didnt have to do from my boobs. Gave me a mental break even though it was usually me sat there with the bottle of ebm also. Maybe your 3yo could even help with this bottle if you are able to express?

Obviously this depends on how easily you are able to express but maybe you could try doing it routinely.

Anyway good to seeyou still perceviring

thehairybabysmum · 16/04/2007 13:16

Glad its going a bit better for you.

Obviously this depends on how easily you are able to express but maybe you could try doing it routinely.

Anyway good to seeyou still perceviring

Lio · 16/04/2007 13:19

Sorry you are feeling blue - do you have a good GP? If you think your concerns (for you and baby) are likely to be dismissed, can you take a friend to help you stick up for yourself? Just a suggestion in case you are feeling vulnerable.

mears · 16/04/2007 13:24

accessorize - you will be able to tell if he has a tongue-tie yourself by looking at him when he is crying. If he has a tongue-tie the tip will look heartshaped because the frenulum (skin under the tongue) will reach right to the end.

You may find that as he gets bigger he will get better however at 4 months you would expect him to get better. Did you check out thrush?

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 16/04/2007 21:40

Thanks, mears. Had a look, doesn't look heart shaped at all to me & I don't feel like it's thrush, only the nipple hurts. Fairly convinced it's just bad latch! He's feeding less during the day in the last week, and for not as long so I'm managing better. May have to accept that it's going to be like this for the duration as 18 weeks really is quite late on for this to improve. I can deal with that, fed him on the bed this afternoon & it was so nice (doesn't hurt lying down) I can't take that away from him!

OP posts:

mears · 16/04/2007 21:43

If it doesn't hurt feeding lying down then that can be achieved sitting up. That is a positive sign. Look at how he is positioned when you are lying down and see if you can replicate the same position sitting up.

mears · 16/04/2007 21:45

BTW - what does your niple look like when he comes off? It should look the same as when he went on.

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 16/04/2007 22:05

Mears, I'm trying! Just can't see what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I'll get dp on the job tomorrow. Nipple not the same when I come off, often pointy & chewed looking. The la leche lady asked me which bit hurt (if nipple was a clock, would it be 6 o'clock etc) as she seemed to think she could help more but I'll be damned if I know which bit of the clock he's hurting

OP posts:

mears · 16/04/2007 23:23

When sitting up is he at the 'angle of the dangle' of your breast or do you find you are holding your breast up to latch him on? Could be that when you are sitting up the breast is being held in a different position than when lying down.

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 17/04/2007 08:10

I'm often supporting my breast, end up with shoulder & neck pain because of it. I had a bf cushion which seemed to help with this, but my ds1 broke it Since then I'm using just an ordinary cushion to support him. I often feed on a not v.comfortable chair with arms, but I have nothing else other than our sofa.

lio, thanks re expressing idea, I have been trying but with another one around & the amount he feeds (3 feeds before 11 normally) I find it hard to express a bottle's worth & anyway the last ebm bottle he took was 9 oz! So it's just a couple of times a week & occasionally some formula to give me a break. he does sleep 12 hours though...

OP posts:

welliemum · 17/04/2007 08:38

Hi accessorise

Sorry I'm late to this thread as I had a very similar experience to you with dd1 - bad latch which no-one seemed to be able to help me fix.

Feeds were agonising at first and she seemed to feed all day - it was miserable.

But somewhere around the 4 month mark, it got better - I think she just got bigger and was going longer between feeds which allowed a bit of healing, or her mouth got bigger and latched on better - whatever it was, it just got more comfortable from that point and I fed her until she self-weaned at 19 months.

Things which helped:

using a bf pillow
squeezing the nipple into the right shape as runninglate described
changing positions - the "rugby hold" one was good
distracting myself whilst feeding by reading or mnetting
and lazycow's point of letting go the "ideal" of breastfeeding. I made myself see that the milk was giving dd1 a great start in life and that was the reward, not the lovely cuddly feeds everyone else seemed to be having!

Good luck, I feel sure it's going to get better for you as it did for me. When you can feed comfortably it's fabulous, and you appreciate it so much more than people who had it easy from the start!

Lio · 17/04/2007 11:34

HI accessorize, I was hopeless at getting any decent amount of milk from expressing, I just used to use the pump for a very short while to get the nipple out a bit (that big boobs/flat nipple combo). For a feeding pillow I just use a fairly cheap feather one - cheap is good as it is les stuffed, which suits my droopy boobs (god I am so attractive, dh is a lulcky lucky man )

mears · 17/04/2007 13:18

Accessorize - do you have large breasts? It may well be that the position is worse sitting up because you are lifting them up for the baby to latch on. It may be that the position will be fine without a pillow so that your DS can get the correct position to attach properly. That was what I meant by the 'angle of the dangle' - where do your nipples lie when you don't lift your breast up? A pillow should be inserted AFTER the baby is attached if there is a space left underneath, not before (like the way we used to teach mothers to feed their babies). You might find that will make all the difference.

Original poster

accessorizewithbabysick · 17/04/2007 14:08

yes, I'm a h cup at present! I'll try that, sometimes I've been out without a pillow & held him in the crook of my arm & it's been reasonably comfy. It's just if I'm using shields I can't do it that way so got in the habit of having a pillow. I always plop him on a pillow, hadn't given it much thought. Thanks, Mears

OP posts:

Bubblemummy · 17/04/2007 15:15

Mears, your last post is exactly what I was about to write!

I have large breasts too, accessorize, the same cup size as you, and I'm pretty sure that this is what caused the trouble with latching on.

I did find that I don't need to use a pillow, as that was raising my DS to a level higher than where my nipple falls naturally. I also found it useful to move DS as little as possible once he latched on, so I had him lying in the crook of my arm, then made sure his mouth was at the same level as my nipple, then tried to get him to latch on. I did this by using my other hand to hold my breast (but not lift it) and pushed the top of my nipple with my thumb slightly, to aim the nipple at the roof of DSs mouth (hopefully allowing him to get a good mouthful!).

If you were in London I would offer to come and show you as it is quite difficult to describe!

Definately agree that if feeding is pain free whilst lying this can be achieved while sitting, too.

I will try to find some pictures and post a link...

Bubblemummy · 17/04/2007 15:25

A bit like this

here

but my thumb would be touching the areola.

Hope this helps you, it's not the same as having someone show you though!

Flip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread