Not being controversial honestly but I'm interested.....

[Manictigger]

...in the different reasons why people use formula whether it's by choice or due to circumstances. I've been bf for 7 months now and I do it a) for peace of mind (there's a history of allergies on DH's side and I would feel so guilty if later down the line lo developed an allergy and I know that I chose not to do something that might have prevented it from happening) Also, lo was born underweight so I felt she needed all the help she could get in life (but those are reasons personal to me). Anyway, b) I'm a lazy cow and would find all that bottle malarkay a faff (even at my lowest, most exhausted point with thrush the idea of dragging my carcass downstairs to make up a bottle sounded like an even worse horrendous nightmare) In fact in a way, I think bottle feeders should be given credit for putting in the effort which a lazy cow like me is unwilling to do.

So like I say, I'm interested in whether people always intended to use formula or whether they had to because bfing went wrong (and whether those people felt they were given the support they needed)and whether formula feeders (whatever their circumstances) think it's right that bf is actively promoted in the NHS. FWIW, I think it's right that bf is promoted by the NHS because according to one survey, a sizeable number of women believe that formula is just as good as bm which as mature MNers we know it isn't but equally I think the NHS is wrong to push that message without also acknowledging that most women will initially have problems and without providing good support for such women.

Anyway, like I say, I'm genuinely interested in seeing the other side of the ff/bf debate because usually it all descends into a playground fight which helps no-one and creates more divisions and prejudice.

So PLAY NICELY

(actually feel a bit guilty because I'm off to plant potatoes now but I will return at some stage)

I'm bfeeding my 6 wk old. Always intended yto bfeed for 6 months and could nevre understand why anyone wouldn't want to. Now after all the problems i've had -post c-section difficulty latching, baby disinterested then fighting breast, sore, cracked bleeding nipples not to mention feeling tied to the house and anti-social cos don't want people in room when im feeding i totally understand why women wouldn't want to.

I'm persevering but don't think I'll make it to 6 months. Have ahd lots of support from lac consultants first at hospital then home -mw have varying degrees of experience with bfeeding so some were fab others rubbish and got really sick of conflicting advice. My HV is great tho and supported my decision to express after just 2weeks and let husband give EBM despite others telling me off for this.

I think more information is needed on the realities of bfeeding before birth so when you experience problems you know it's normal and will pass. I only found this out by talking to other mums but they had never mentioned before.

Also I have been told my baby has a really unusual latch/technique but as he's only 6wks and already 10lb11 (bw 8lb9) i figure it's going better for him than me so am determined to carry on as long as poss.

also it's interesting how many people tell you to give up -MIL and others who didn't bfeed just couldn't understand why i would want to suffer and kept telling me to give up and that he probably wasn't getting enough food which is why he cried, I'm not sure why i was so determined to carry on but am glad now i did.

Vmama - my experience has been a lot like yours. I'm now BFing my third child and still finding it really difficult - although its early days. Also, like you, prefer BFing at home, so have to sacrifice sociability to persevere. I keep having to remind myself how good it was Bfing DD (who I fed for 18 months) as my baby is only 4 weeks old and its been really hard the last few weeks.

Sorry, I seem to have hijacked this thread

I think sometimes when people suggest one of your options is to give up, it can produce very strong reactions and a feeling that the mother is not being understood - I certainly felt like that when people did that for me with DS1, but I found myself trying very gently to suggest it with a dear friend who was tying herself in knots of mental and physical agony trying to feed her second whilst coping with a very unimpressed toddler while she had no family support, and it did seem then that mixed feeding with a bottle in the evening would at least release her from the eternal anxiety about how much milk the baby was getting before bed. Tiktok, the NCT person was my antenatal counsellor, but I am afraid to say not all BF counsellors I tried sound as willing to help as you appear to be.

Vmama, thats a positive post. You are probably over the worst bit now (almost) so hopefully you will find it easier and more enjoyable soon and may well make it to 6 months or even more!

I would love to get my norks out in public foxie but people look at you even more if you do it whilst bottle feeding

oh god someone please post after my hopelessly flippant comment about terribly serious subject

I haven't actually read the whole of this thread through, but i breastfed my dd until she was about 12 weeks and I returned to work. I work in a casino and there is nowhere to hygenically express or store milk, and it was heartbreaking for me to have to pump and throw it away. I was lucky in the fact that the hospital I gave birth in had bf counsellors on hand and their advice was invaluable to me.
I was really sad when I gave up, but found bottlefeeding not too much of a chore, but I felt soo guilty. Am currently 39 weeks pg again, and hoping to take longer off work this time and so bf for longer.
Oh, and I definately think theres a generation divide somewhere. My mum and nan were horrified when I told them I intended to bf, kept trying to tell me that because I'm petite I wouldn't produce enough milk, and that it runs in the family etc, it would make me tired/ill

SueJonez, take no notice. I honestly never wanted to breastfeed even though I know it was the best for my children. I am adopted myself and know that I wasn't breastfed.

If people really judge Mothers on this, then I guess I will be outed and villified for it. The help was there, support was there, I just didn't want to do it.

My DS is not allergic to anything, neither does he have asthma. He did have a little excema when small but has outgrown this.

Once again, I would say to anyone, breastfeed, it's the best way. It was not my best way and I am happy that my decision was entirely selfish.

I still want to know what a "bum fight" is.....

I havent read the thread manic but in response to the origonal question, a friend of mine who is currently preggers is going to formula feed because..... wait for it

Bf is disgusting

Twas difficult to respond calmly I can tell you

let me show you QV

Bum fight harpsi, not bum FRIGHT....

I am about to get my head partially removed here from the force ... anyhooooo

We know breastfeeding is best for baby - no competeition there but the facts about bottlefeeding do baffle me somewhat - the stuff about infections and braininess in particular - that babies are more likely to have infections - is that because of people not sterilising properly?? How does that give you an ear infection??? (am being dim there I know) and level of interlligence - nothing to do with genetics and nature/nurture then??

I tried to bf my first unsuccessfully and switched at 6 weeks - bottlefed no.2 but planning to bf no.3 - neither of them have ever had an ear infection, rarely get colds or bugs, don;t have asthma etc - are pretty bright kids - so was it so bad to bottle feed them?

I am genuinely confused by the whole thing and watch bf threads with interest as there is such a huge divide and I am currently suspended mid air in a huge gorge awaiting arrival of no.3 and worrying what will happen if don;t bf.

A breastfeeding workshop I went to confused the issue even more when the midwife said that breastfeeding reduced the chances of SIDS - how is that then? I assume she means that if they are in the same room as you - but that isn;t what she said. In fact I nearly got up and walked out.

Sue LOL!

I think you make a good point earlier BTW - that diet throughout childhood is important.

octo, im sure tiktok can answer most of this.

The perspective of research tends to indicate that b/feeding is 'normal', and as such, the 'benefits' people talking about are not benefits as such at all.

The risks you mention are there for many reasons, but, generally, its considered that b/feeding assists a baby's immune system because it has these natural 'prebiotics' (going for the media/pr term).

Also, research hasnt been that indepth so far I think, only that of the large numbers of babies monitored, those that were b/fed were less at risk of ear infections etc etc. It wasnt investigated further than 'incidences' of illness etc.

not less at risk, less likely.....

Interested to read that someone lower down the thread bf because they were too lazy to ff.

My experience of bf was that it was much harder worker (in terms of time consuming) and it is all your responsibility so I always thought it was harder!

I also found bf very resticting to my life. I did not like bf out of the house so had to time all visits out of the house so that I didn't have to feed while out. Made life very difficult and limiting. On the rare occasions when it couldn't be avoided I really felt uncomfortable.

Despite all this DD was bf for 8 months exclusively. DS was exclusively bf for 5 weeks and then I swapped to mix feeding (1 bottle of ff in the afternoon) so I could get out of the house! He was bf till 14 months

Having said this when pg with my first I sort of assumed I would ff and I was DEFINITELY bullied into bf by the mv and dh. Perhaps that is why I didn't really like it tha much...

I was determined to bf both of my children, but DD has special needs and couldn't suckle which broke my heart, after a c section taking the experience of birth away, bf-ing was really important to me. A lot of what she had for the first 3 or 4 months was expressed though.
My DS took to the breast no probs, but I am sadly on my own with these 2, and having a DD with problems meant I had to still give her huge amounts of time, and DS wanted to BF every waking second. So with the blessing of a La Leche league BF advisor I started mixed feeding from a few months old. At least it meant he still had my breast several times a day for about 8 months.
I wish it could have been different and I could haved fully BF-ed both. My DS still grabs my boob for a milkless suckle sometimes, I wish I could still be BF-ing him now at 2 1/2! Breast is best but when you have no choice we should be gratful that formula is available as an alternative if things don't work.

I chose to breastfeed because the evidence was overwhelmingly in favour of the natural stuff. It wasn't easy at the beginning. DS was born 3 weeks early via c-section initially feeding was very painful. During his first week he lost more than 10% of his body weight and had jaundice.

I vaguely remember arguing with a nurse from the special care unit who told me that without formula my baby would not put enough weight and he'd end up in special care. I was devastated but he was given formula.

During the first 6 weeks he probably had more formula than breast milk but I continued to pump every 2 hours or so and we glued ourselves to the sofa while I tried to up my supply. This process was entirely informed by mumsnet.

Every day for that first 6 weeks I thought it would be my last day of breastfeeding. I hated the pain and felt a failure. But, suddenly at 6 weeks something clicked and it became easy. For three months or so I exclusively breastfed and I find it so easy.

Now at 5 and a half months I am mix feeding because I am back at work part-time and find it difficult to express enough.

I am so glad I battled through those first 6 weeks. However knowing how hard it can be has made me feel far more empathy for those who struggled and gave up.

It is a personal decision and clearly one which provokes much debate. I personally decided to continue breastfeeding because I'm pretty stubborn and didn't want to fail at it! I'm also pretty lazy so see it as the easy option...

I plan to continue for as long as he wants to feed - I really enjoy it now.

intended to bf dd for the right reasons but the right reasons weren't right for me if that makes sense.

No regrets

ds1 and ds2 formula fed straight away

Oh I would like to add, to this, that if anybody had told me to buy an electric pump so DD wouldn't have been actually breastfeeding, I would have. But no one did. I felt a bit sad when I found this out after 3 weeks.

So I guess I was not informed properly, but I expect they thought I was well informed as I was the oldest mum on the ward.

SueJones - I think some hopelessly flippant comments can actually enhance these serious threads because they can release the tension.

And I'm still trying to work out why someone ptsl at my comment about planting my potatoes. Is it the female equivalent of 'choking the chicken'?

Sue...youre comment made me lol...I can just imagine that...lol ;)
VVV and Harpsi...lol, too

Octo...to your questions...not that I am a professional, but will try to answer them as good as I can and hopefully people will jump in if I am spouting rubbish....feel free...

Infections...yes, partly there is more "danger" because Formula itself can be contaminated, as factory conditions and produce used may not always be aswell as they should, but also, because obvioulsy breastmilk itself has infection busting active ingridients...formula is a "dead" product, Breastmilk is "alive, full of enzymes and whatnot....!
As for Earinfections...not one hundred percent on this one, but I think that is somehting to do with the feeding position that can lead to infections...i.e. a Bottlefed Baby will be more upright, etc....but don't quote me on that.
And then of course all that counts for any infection goes for this, too...i.e. bm has infection busting properties....!
Braindevellopement, well, Bresatmilk is made perfectly for just "YOUR" Baby, Formula is produced for a massmarket, so, your breastmilk is tailored for your child needs, iykwim.
Also, again it's a life food and all teh ingredients are active and in the form that a human can best and easiest digest and there are all those fats in Breastmilk that are good and essentiell(sp???don't look right) for good Brain devellopement.
However, I don't think that anyone is claiming that Breastmilk will make a person more intelligent against other people, possibly more intelligent then they would otherwise been...because of course genetics and environment do play a huge role in this.

"I tried to bf my first unsuccessfully and switched at 6 weeks - bottlefed no.2 but planning to bf no.3 - neither of them have ever had an ear infection, rarely get colds or bugs, don;t have asthma etc - are pretty bright kids - so was it so bad to bottle feed them?"
Thing is, you don't know how they would have fared if they were breastfed...in the end breastmilk is the normal food for a human infant, Formula is an artificial product and often cowsmilkbased, and well, cowsmilk really isn't meant for human consumption, but is for Calfs only (dispite knowing that, I still liek my cowsmilk and can't get friendly with soymilk, lol)!

The Sids theory, as far as I am aware is based on again, the active properties in Breastmilk, but also, that breastfed Baby's often wake up more often and have the more natural waking pattern of a human infant. Artificial milk can extent the sleep periods and this can lead to the Baby falling into a deeper sleep then they meant to, and this can lead to them stoping to breath...however, they don't really know all that much about SIDS, so, it's difficult to gauge if this is the truth...it does make sense to me, but just because something makes sense doesn't mean it's right.
Oh, also, a Breastfeeding mother is meant to sleep lighter and "more" connected to their Baby and therefore may wake up esier in case of a problem...however, I know that certainly with ds 3 this was completely untrue for me, I bf'ed him, but was not bonded at all wiht him until much much later, and even if we co-slept I would turn my back on him (which apparently a bf'ing mother doesn't do...hm...), I also slept really deep...but, of course this could have been mainly because of my feeling for him after a traumatic Birth, ratehr then an issue of feeding method. As I am sure bottlefeeding mums bond just aswell...

May I just add this disclaimer: What I have written is not necessarily my personal opinion, just my conclusions fo the things that I read up on...but we all know 2 people can read the same thing and draw completely different conclusions, lol...and I am not a BFC or anything.

3- yes to all that you've said. plus the ear infection thing, i believe, is to do with the action of breastfeeding which uses the whole jaw, as it involves a wider latch. whereas bottle sucking is more like just a suck, not a big suckle with full jaw and tongue action. IYSWIM!

Octo, I'm sure an expert will be able to answer your questions for you more fully. But, in general, I think the reason that bf babies are less likely to have infections etc is because they receive antibodies in their mothers' milk. I'm not sure of the exact mechanics of it, but my understanding is that, when breastfeeding, viruses and bacteria are transmitted to the mother from the baby's mouth. The mother's body then produces specific antibodies to fight the bacteria and viruses and these are then given back to the baby via the breastmilk. Breastmilk is also perfectly suited to the baby's gut whereas formula can irritate the gut lining. There are certain fatty acids in breasmilk which can help with brain development which possibly account for the improved IQ of breastfed babies which has been observed.
HTH.