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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

4 m.o. bf troubles - better to wean onto formula or food?

39 replies

Kif · 12/03/2007 16:26

I'm a little sad - but exclusive bf seems to be on the skids. At 16wks and only a little over 5kg am I better off supplementing with food or formula?

No history of allergies - though me, my Dd and my grandmother share an aversion to dairy esp. white milk - so ,may be some kind of sensitivity.

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Kif · 12/03/2007 16:34

correction - 18 wks - i'd lost track

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margoandjerry · 12/03/2007 16:37

in no way an expert but I asked the same q a few weeks back and was told formula rather than food. But my daughter didn't have slow weight gain - just greed issues!

yellowrose · 12/03/2007 16:38

kif, what did your baby weigh at birth ? Can you give us some idea of her general health ? Is she/he alert, healthy, good skin tone, reaching development targets, several wet poos a day, etc ?

How often does she/he feed in 24 hours ?

mears · 12/03/2007 16:40

How is it on the skids at 18 weeks out of interest?

Some babies are just slow weight gainers whatever fodd they are on. Is she otherwise well?

If you really do need to supplement it should be with formula at this age.

Kif · 12/03/2007 16:58

weight at birth 3.45. he stuck to the 9th centile for a while, then curve flattened to put him on 2nd centile. At this point he was picture of contentment, good feeder every 3.5/4hrs. 2 wks ago I was talked round to feeding him more often to try to boost the weight.

It's kind of falling apart since then.. I was staying with ILs 5 days the first week, so I had time off from Dd and housework. Fed lots - frequency 2 hrs or often less. Hoped that when i got back to london things would settle down naturally.

the feeds are unstrucutured andvery frequent (though i've lost my confidence on distinguishing hungry and sleepy cry. He fusses at the breast - finishes every feed crying. Daytime sleep is up the spout, waking more in the night.

Main thing is that it feels like a little more crying each day.

Saturday started to show signs of just refusing. After a looong day with barely any sleep, and pretty unconvincing feeds he got his first sma bottle last thing. Was noticeably more settled sunday.

I had thiught teeth - but the problem seems specific to feed/sleep. Whether or not related to this, I'm in the wars at the moment. Seem to have recurring (but mild) thrush in milk ducts. I look and look and can;t see any evidence in his mouth or my nipples, so i ruled that one out. Ds has also picked up conjunctivitis from me and Dd (we're a handsome looking family, i tell you!). My other thread suggested growth spurt - but it seems a long one!

He's fine in between times. More generally his development is spot on and he's alert and sociable. Wees fine. Poo has never been his strong point - but he's consistent with his own pattern of every few days. In character he's peaceful but quite 'touchy'. Check on my profile in 2 mins for a pic of him 2 days ago.

I don't see a way out of this exclusively bf. Been a bit emotional over it all - but trying to look on the positive that 4 months is a good run.

Thanks for reading - anyone that got all the way through my essay!

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Overrun · 12/03/2007 17:01

I hit a major problem at 4 months with dts, I couldn't quite meet their demand, and was under pressure from every one to give food. In the end and with much sadness I offered them a bottle in the evening, and dt1 took me up on it, and this held the situation until I felt he was ready for solids

Kif · 12/03/2007 17:04

Oh, and I seemed to 'plateau' with my Dd who was a grand feeder but really struggled with weight gain until daily 4oz of SMA were brought in at 6 wks - from where we mixed fed for months.

But ds seemed to have been going much smoother.

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yellowrose · 12/03/2007 17:10

kif - thanks for that. It all depends on how strongly you feel about excl. bf until 6 months. If you feel strongly about it, it sounds like your baby is generally healthy, so keep going with excl. bf, feed as often as he wants it. This is the only way to ensure a bf baby will gain weight. Top ups of formula will not help you with supply and can lead to breast rejection eventually.

I am no expert, but from bitter experience can tell you that even if no sign of thrush in baby's mouth or nipples, they can get very very sore mouths (ds and I had thrush at 3 months) and stop feeding properly. If only one of you has thrush, BOTH of you need to be treated simulateously, otherwise it is just a circular cross infection that can go on for months. It is a bugger to get rid of, but we got rid of ours within a few weeks of using daktarin oral gel/canestan. Luckily it never came back.

If you are not that keen and finding it too difficult, then of course it is your choice to stop bf.

Kif · 12/03/2007 17:17

you think he could have thrush?

But my nipples don't hurt - I just have deep shooting pain after feeds.

Oh - and i was idiot enough to do a pregnancy test at a point when i would have only been a week or so gone, because I felt peculiar. It came back with what looked like an incredibly faint but definitely there line... i repeated a couple of days later and it said 'no'. I'm assuming that I bogged up the test - and not really entertaining the other explanation.

Complicated, huh?

On my feelings - i love bf - and feel upset that things are conspiring against it... but not to the point of not giving my ds a top up if he's clearly becoming unhappy.

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millysimmons · 12/03/2007 18:20

Kif,
Been in similar situation, spoke to BF counsellor who said not to feel guilty if i decided to give bottle of formula. My son was 4 months but kept on with exc BF. Last week he got really upset & just didnt settle, thought teeth but not sure. Like you was feeding some days almost nonstop but he was still fussing. Anyhow kept on till yesterday when hes 5month 1wk & gave him some puree both days & he's delighted! Not sure this is right, feel really bad not done the exc BF but if it makes our LO happy then maybe you do need to look at the FF or weaning a little earlier than the 6 months?

alex8 · 12/03/2007 18:38

kif on the breastfeeding network site they say deep shooting pains after a feed are thrush.

yellowrose · 12/03/2007 18:44

Kif - it is most certainly thrush in your milk ducts. That is exactly the description for thrush in your bresats.

Treat baby with Daktarin Oral Gel and your nipples with Canestan or something similar. Best of luck

yellowrose · 12/03/2007 18:47

breasts

mears · 12/03/2007 18:50

Pain could be thrush

see here

Kif · 12/03/2007 23:41

Thanks for your replies.

I'm surprised 'real food' doesn't hav e more votes.

Say, you can argue that food would supplement rather than replace bf, and is less likely than formula to escalate at expense of bf. I'd have thought with food you'd avoid nipple confusion and refusal/fussing at breast.

The clincher being ' a few years ago he would have beeen routinely weaned at this age.

No?

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yellowrose · 13/03/2007 08:55

kif - there seems to be a lot of debate about that on MN and elsewhere.

All the major world health orgs. bang on about bf or ff as the MAIN source of food for a baby under 1. So that is probably why GP/HV would recommend formula over food at 4 months.

You are right, in the old days it was apparently very common to wean onto solids at 4 months.

Try talking to NCT or other similar org. and find out what they advise.

fishie · 13/03/2007 08:59

kif i would have thought that since you can't give most things to eat before 6 months then the baby would be getting very little nutrition from a bit of pear puree or baby rice, hence formula ercommendation over food.

anyway, sounds like if you can get the thrush diagnosed and sorted it might be ok? no point in going on to formula when you don't want to.

yellowrose · 13/03/2007 09:01

I am wondering whether one other main reason that they advise against solids before 6 months is the increased risk of allergies ? This is a major reason we are told it is best not to introduce an excl. bf baby to solids before 6 months.

It may be the same reasoning for ff babies. A baby's gut is very sensitive so perhaps they are not ready for solids at 4 months ?

Worth investigating if you are not sure.

fishie · 13/03/2007 09:09

as i understasnd it, the ff baby may not have the 'virgin gut' but they have exactly the same issues re gut maturity pre 26 weeks.

mine did nto have virgin gut anyway, spent first week on formula.

yellowrose · 13/03/2007 09:26

Yes fishie, I think you are right. Gut maturity is the issue and it would be the same for any baby whether bf, ff or mix fed.

yellowrose · 13/03/2007 09:30

I have just read this again on kellymom.com

Kif, it says that the recommendation for ff and bf babies is the SAME - i.e 6 months:

this

Kif · 13/03/2007 18:44

To update, I think Ds's unsettledness has really been due to hunger, despite the previous 2wk feedathon. He's chilled out a lot from one bottle of formula last thing at night, and has had some great sleeps over last 24hrs.

The thrush - I've been round the block with it before - got a low dose prescription from GP with dire warnings that I must not let a drop of my bm pass my babies lips for a week, and how I must express for that week if i wish to carry on bf. . Ds really does seem OK though - seems to all be localised in me.

I'm feeling OK about it all - nice to see him back to his old self, and hopefully the other bf feeds will be maintained for a while longer.

Many thanks for your support.

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Kif · 14/03/2007 18:37

oookay, i tske it back. Grumps have returned despite the formula miklk.

back to the drawing board.

went to gp today to discuss if he migh have a sore mouth. a bit of a waste of time

"no white plaque in mouth mean no thrush"

"why woiuld you treat him with antifungal? wouldn't sntibiotics be first choice?"

"why don't you get him weighed more often? Really the hvs are the ones to talk to about feeding troubles. they've had the training and they know all about it!" (?!)

"his feeding patterns aren't really relevant when it comes to deciding if we need to investigate further... now if we only had the weight..."

"Lots of reasons for breast pain. your shooting pains and pins and needles in the nipple don't mean anything. thrush is a red cracked nipple. If you want to talk about your health perhaps you shouldmake another appointment"

Appreciate any personal experiences anyone has like me - i've read kellymom.

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yellowrose · 14/03/2007 18:40

kif - could you please move to look at another thread where alex8 and I have been discussing thrush in lots of detail ? Could someone please tell me how to link to another thread ? I am too daft and can't do it !

NormaStanleyFletcher · 14/03/2007 18:42

YellowRose - I think you mean this one

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