4 m.o. bf troubles - better to wean onto formula or food?

[Kif]

I'm a little sad - but exclusive bf seems to be on the skids. At 16wks and only a little over 5kg am I better off supplementing with food or formula?

No history of allergies - though me, my Dd and my grandmother share an aversion to dairy esp. white milk - so ,may be some kind of sensitivity.

Kif: sounds like you're going through a tough time at the moment. Re food, was chatting to HV today about solids (DS is 23 weeks) and she said she wouldn't recommend solids between 4 and 5 months unless there were exceptional circimstances.

Also, no-one has mentioned a growth spurt - from mine and others' experiences, many babies have one hell of a spurt at 4 months which takes ages to settle down and can led to a v restless and grumpy baby. It may be this and nothing to do with your milk.

Having said all that, go with what you feel happiest doing. Talk again to your HV or try the NCT/LLL/ABM if you need more info - your gp sounds rubbish

yellowrose - with a view of 'being able to tell if we're on the right track' how long did it take for symptoms to noticeably improve? bfn leaflet suggest 2-3 days - was it like that for you?

I'm planning: daktarin 4 times a day on babe; same on me (cream not gel); homeopathic stuff for both of us; probiotic for both of us; low carb diet to avoid 'feeding tthe yeast'.

Did you need to use fluconazole? A little reluctant since this seems quite a big gun for an unproven diagnosis.

Thanks!

Thanks Norma - I am silly I should learn how to link threads !

Kif - I totally agree with your plan.

Ds was 3 months old at the time. We tried Nystan which is the usual stuff given out by GP and it did nothing. My poor baby didn't feed for a whole 24 hours one day, I was going crazy. I knew I must have thrush due to deep shooting pain down both breasts after a feed. I read it kellymom.com.

So I started searching the net and found BFN leaflet and did exactly as it said. Daktarin from chemist and I got Canestan cream from GP.

Dakatrin worked for us within 48 hours. Ds was back to feeding from the boob as normal On the days that he didn't feed well, I just expressed and syringe fed him.

No, I didn't ask for fluconazole. Like you I held off until I had tried the Daktarin first. Because we were both better within days, never went to GP to ask for it.

Kif, just see how it goes my darling. Use the gel in baby and the cream on your boobs AFTER each feed. The gel gets washed around if you put it on your finger first. I recommend applying some to tip of clean cotton wool and then apply to baby's gums and a bit on the tongue.

Let us know how it goes, it DOES get better

Oh and kif - I am not a mw, hv, doctor or bf expert of any sort - like I said to alex8 - if you have any doubts about thrush, etc. PLEASE do go and see a local baby cafe, LLL, etc. I can help you find your local group if you don't have time.

alex8 got lots of help in her Baby Cafe and it turns out she didn't have thrush it was a latch problem.

Let us know how you get on today

thanks yellowrose - i note your disclaimers, but v v helpful to hear personal experience.

The problem with expert info is that it can be very impractical (and expect you to have cleared out the pharmacy of every random potion).

I've been going to a bf group - but thrush wasn't really discussed - I guess the problem is that you sometimes lose a lot of detail when you try to speak with a bfc innthe time available. I'll keep trying to re-engage with experts. Getting a little exhausted with the 'emotional energy' needed to keep engaging with people. (or perhaps U'm missing my candy .

for what it's worth (don't want to speak too soon) my little guy seems more relkaxed this am.

When you say after every feed, though - that is a lot more than 2 times a day recomended on leafket or 4 times a day elsewhere. did you really do it that often.

Family Kif off to boil wash the bed linen at the launderette|! not taking any chances.

Oh sorry, kif, I am going mad this morning ! I think BFN says 4 times for the gel for the baby ? Please re-check.

I thought I better mention not being an expert, as I didn't wish to come across as one. I just know a fair bit about thrush.

So glad your baby is better today

I?ve never had thrush but I?ve read lots about it on Mumsnet and it all sounds like it! Regarding weaning, dd was 4.5 months when I started her. I was bf every 2 or so hours (and had been all along) but noticed that she was intently watching us eating (while not watching us like that doing anything else IYSWIM, ie not just curiosity), following the fork from plate to mouth, drooling and licking her chops a lot (seriously, she was like a cartoon dog!), and when I mentioned all this to hv she said to try her on baby rice and pureed fruit ? we haven?t looked back. Dd is now nearly two and she?s never had any tummy or digestion problems (touch wood). She was obviously just ready for solids. But don?t necessarily do what I did, I was reluctant to wean before 6 months, but she was so clearly ready. Look for the signs and talk to your hv.

I would say, if your baby?s narky on the breast it?s probably sore for him to suck. Remember that it is ?easier? to drink from a bottle than the breast, so he may have settled after the formula simply because he had a good feed. Stick with it, I really missed breast feeding when I stopped.

Oh, and see a different doctor!

Sorry, didn?t mean to waffle on so much.

sigh phoned up a baby cafe lady this morning. I though tthat the little guys clothes were looking looser on him - so she told me of a place I could go to get him weighed.

Still think thrush is likely - and he's stopped the crying on the breadt business (albeit still daytime insomniac related tears - so he's still not himself). carrying on with the treatment.

However, the weight gain is looking catastrphically low. He's gone from just below 2nd to 'off the chart' (below 0.04%) in three weeks. I suspect (can't prove, but evidence of my eyes) he was sticking to his 'just under 2nd' trajectory until this last really lousy week, where I think he's actually lost weight. my poor little monkey.

Anyhow - hellloooo Mr SMA. The lady said that given that I'd already been on a feedathon and given that he's off the charts she thinks we neef at least three smas a day. Try to pump if i linke - but basically 'well done for getting so far'.

sigh

Still, 1-0 for mothers intuition - I twigged real weight problem.

kif - I am sorry. You and baby sound like you are having a really hard time. I just hope it gets better for you.

Let us know how you get on.

I excl bf then got to a point where dd2 was feeding every two hours day and night and found it very difficult my HV suggested baby rice and apple which really helped I didn't start her til 20 weeks tho. My decision was partly based on the fact that my dd refused to take bottle with expressed milk and so thought no point battling with formula.

Even if you decide to give one bottle of formula doesn't mean you have to stop bf, if you are determined to continue bf - good for you- have a plan and stick to your guns. I only just stopped bf dd at 17 months.

I'd like to continue - and for whatever reason ds has discovered new enthusiasm for the milk bar... I guess i wonder though if I'd be putting my kids and me (and dh!)through a lot of stress for a mission that's basically doomed.

It's not doomed, not at this stage. You really need to speak to a bf counsellor, La Leche League or whoever. Here in Powys we have a scheme started my midwives and hvs where they trained mums to be bf counsellors, it's worked really well. You should see if they have similar schemes in your patch. Good luck, it would be such a shame to give up now.

Yeah you are not deemed - remember positive thinking always works best. You can do it believe in yourself - look at how far you've come - your baby is alive and well.