At loggerheads with husband over feeding

[Shadowboy]

I am desperate to make BF work. I've managed 8 days so far but have really really painful and cracked breasts. I have also been expressing enough for two feeds per day- one so I can sleep a couple of hours block at night, the other so I can go and walk dog/sort the horses out.

My husband keeps bottle feeding her but it makes her cry (I can hear her screaming when I'm upstairs trying to get 2-3 hours sleep) he's just
Given her two bottles in a row (I've just come down to feed her/relieve him of his shift) and he's just told me I have to express and that she just has colic and it's nothing wrong with the bottle. I'm convinced it's the bottles as she never screams after the boob.

My boobs are agonising but I want to try and ride through it to get to the other side to BF.

I'm not sure what to do now? If I express milk my husband will just use it in the night and I won't be able to BF. At the same time
My boobs are getting engorged. I'm so so so upset.

You need a lactation specialist not a midwife. There aren't many mums who try to do what you are so early. 8 days is very early to be away from an EBF baby for 3 hours. You also need someone to have a very good look at tongue tie if you're cracking and bleeding. Her latch needs looking at too. It might be not quite right from switching between breast and bottle so early. Have you tried nipple shields? If your DH is going to bottle feed her he needs to learn her cues. If she's crying then he needs to be offering more. He also needs to be winding her really well. If she's draining the whole bottle then she needs to be offered more. Establishing supply isn't just about getting the milk in its about the quality and timing of the milk. I can't imagine that you aren't going to end up with a wonky supply doing it like this so early. Clearly something isn't working for your baby and you need to listen to her. There's no shame in formula either of your life just isn't set up for breast feeding.

In my experience, partners can feel completely helpless in the early days when you're having issues with breastfeeding and are in pain, and sometimes the way they react and the solutions they suggest are the result of a kind of panic and not what you want to hear or what is right. Giving your husband the benefit of the doubt that this is what is going on, if you want to continue to breastfeed you need to tell him calmly but firmly that you will be carrying on, that you don't want him to suggest stopping any more. He doesn't get to decide what level of pain is too much for you.

It's very, very early days to be doing so much. I would also suggest taking the baby with you, you might find they sleep quite well wrapped up warm in a pushchair outside.

Thanks Orsono. I think I'm going to have to stop BFing. I'm devastated. Spent most of today in tears trying to get my head round it but I just can't get the left nipple to heal even though I've been expressing from it- the split is still very very deep. The right breast just can't keep up with the demand of 8 -9 feeds a day :(

Can I ask why you think your right breast isn't able to produce enough milk? It is possible to feed off just one breast.

Because she cluster feeds at night and I can tell there isn't enough milk to satisfy her- the breast is all soft and floppy and she gets upset and fussy, crying usually after the 3rd feed. It's day 14 and it's been the same last 5 nights so I'm thinking that my supply isn't keeping up with her 'Orders' I think tonight may have to be the first formula feed. I've managed to just about keep up expressing the left in the meantime but I think she's beginning to prefer the bottles anyway. Gutted is an understatement

It's totally up to you, but the early days of feeding are just really like this. Your baby is trying to get your supply going, it can seem like they're never satisfied. In the first couple of weeks after birth your milk supply is hormone based, then it swaps over to gradually to supply and demand. It's common to think that there isn't enough milk and lose confidence.

They tend to cluster feed at night, as a way to boost milk production. It doesn't indicate a problem. The painful nipple obviously does.
First formula feed doesn't have to mean end of breastfeeding - if you want to mix feed, you can. I know a few people who breastfed past weaning, whose child had a bottle a night from a couple of weeks.

Oh? Not sure what to do about the fussing/floppy boob situation in the night?! It soon 'refills' once I get a few hours sleep but it's getting her to sleep in the meantime that I'm struggling with as she continues to root/cry etc

Just a thought, the NHS sent me a lactation consultant. She was amazing. My pfb struggled to suck, so she suggested nipple shields, which was against all the advice at the time, and worked a charm. She saw me and pfb as an individual dyad, rather than giving generic advice.
She also found out that I have achey boobs during totm,and reckons there is s correlation between that and pain when feeding. So, if you can get a lactation expert, do. Good luck.

Proper old wives tale this, but make sure you are getting enough to drink. It's thirsty work, and add in manual labour and a toddler, you probably won't be prioritising getting yourself a drink.

Sounds like a growth spurt, are you getting plenty of wet nappies? I went along to a very helpful breastfeeding clinic at the local hospital, got latch advice. Is there something similar near you? If you get both boobs healed you can switch boobs when one goes floppy, though growth spurts are hard work.

Around 10 days they get into a frenzy of fussing/feeding it encourages more milk to come in ready for them upping their intake.
Tbh I think if you really want to do it, stick at it for a few more days and see.
I had terrible sore nipples with DS (tongue tie) and mastitis. It was hell, but we did get through it. It just depends whether you want to or not, not DH. Although he is trying to be supportive he needs to listen to you as to what support you need, otherwise it's likely to be quite counterproductive.

Your boobs don't need to refill, in fact, the more empty they are the more signals your body gets to generate more milk. Full boobs sends signals to reduce milk supply. Your boobs will always produce milk when your baby suckles, once the baby has drained any stored milk. The speed of flow will slow down at that point which is why babies can get frustrated, but there will always be milk.

The night time cluster feeding is really to boost your su

...oops!

...supply. As depressing as it is, I would just go with it and keep feeding her as much as you can bear.

The cracked nipples and feeling empty make me think of tongue tie.

My dd (my second) had a tongue tie and I had these sorts of issues.

Echo pp that you need a lactation consultant - you can call a helpline I think too. Look at la leche league and kellymom websites.

On my phone feeding my baby so apologies do typos etc!

My understanding (I had consultant with my first dd) is that you might think it's empty but it isn't. Your body constantly makes milk so as long as baby is on breast milk is coming out.
When you feel full it is coming out fast, but it will continue to come out even when 'empty'.

Pro Lactin (hormone that controls milk) surge is between 2and5 AM so baby needs to be latched at that time to boost and establish supply.

As it's supply and demand you could think if it as demand today for tomorrows increased supply with such a new baby - hence cluster feeding every night. For both my dd I had them basically attached to me every evening from about 6pm-11pm and again every 2 hours overnight for the first few weeks.

For the horses if you take the baby can you stop and give her a feed half way through if needed? She's more likely to sleep in the cold fresh air (obviously wrap her up well) and she will hear you bashing around and know you are there. Presumably you did it when she was inside you too so the noises and routine won't be lost on her.
For your boob get Lansinoh and smother it on and keep doing it - it will get better xx possibly try the hydrogel dressing mesh stuff too. Shields can help too. Where in the country are you I have a new unopened pack I am trying to get rid of you can have if you like.

If you want to get through thus, you can - but equally there is no harm in mix feeding of formula feeding if you want.

Takecare and good luck however you go xx

Cluster feeding for hours and hours is completely normal
Floppy boob is normal. The milk is produced as your baby sucks, only a little milk is stored in your breasts in anticipation.

What isn't normal is a cracked painful nipple
This often indicates a latch problem
Poor latch technique, or a tongue tie
A Lactation consultant can assess this

8 days is really early to be expressing and spending three hours away from baby
Can baby come with you to horses (I know zilch about horses so this may be a daft suggestion)
Can you co sleep with baby at night to get more sleep?

Like others, I'd suggest taking baby with you to muck out etc and feed her in the car while you're there. Your husband thinks he's being helpful but he's not. If you're keen to continue bf make sure baby is with you all the time. Your DH can take the toddler out for a few hours in the day so you and baby can nap. Now that really would be helpful.

OP I don't have any new advice but just wanted to say you sound like you are doing AMAZINGLY. It's so, SO hard and you have other things to think about like DC1 and animals to boot. Whatever decision you make please don't feel guilty because you sound as thought you're doing every single thing in your power.

OP you need proper professional support, not an arsey partner. The first days are so so tough and you need so much support, not doubting your abilities. Your baby wants you and bottles may be confusing her, she's very little to be trying both bottle and breast.

Soft floppy boob is OK - they still make milk, they make milk all the time. When they are full up it means you've got a lot of excess milk building up. You don't need to wait for it to "refill" to have enough milk to feed her. She might be frustrated with the slower flow of on-demand milk rather than "full boob" excess milk. If you kind of squash your boob a bit as she's feeding, it will help to increase the flow which can encourage her to get latched on but it can be annoying for you to do this all the time, so try not to get into the habit of always doing it.

I echo others - sounds like you're expecting a LOT of yourself. I expect both you and DH are probably both utterly exhausted which is why you're sniping at each other? Is there anybody at all you could call in for help with your older child or the animals maybe? You know when everyone says "Let us know if there's anything we can do" - they do genuinely want to help I've found.

I hope things settle soon one way or another.

Hi, I am a qualified breastfeeding counsellor with 16 years experience.
You should not be thinking about expressing/bottle feeding at this stage.
This will massively over complicate things and easily lead to problems.
It is very early days, your baby is still learning how to feed and your supply is establishing.

Switching between nipple and bottle this early often leads to sore cracked nipples. Your baby needs to spend a lot of time at the breast at this stage, including cluster feeding; this stimulates the nipple, which triggers the pituitary gland in the brain into producing oxytocin and prolactin, the hormones resonsible for milk production.
Prolactin levels are raised during the night, this is the most important time to feed, especially for anyone worried about supply. It's not a case of your breasts "filling up", most milk is made in "real time"

My advice would be to ditch all bottles . go to bed with your baby for 24 hours and have a "babymoon".

Can you seek specialist support from a lactation specialist in RL?

Feeding so early on can be hard, but does get much easier.

If you want to bf you still can: your H should support this, and help not push the bottle! Eg he could help with the horses temporarily, or you could take DD along.

Might be unrealistic at this stage to seek to have two breaks a day/night for horses and sleep.

I found cold (builders') tea bags amazing for cracked nipples. And painkillers!

dozer - teabags do work for some but the best solution is to find the reason behind the cracked nipples in the first place.

Which in this case seems to be the OPs husband I'm afraid.

With respect to your responsibilities for the horses, unless your H is always or almost always going to be there to care for DD while you attend to the horses it'd be better to persevere with BF as longer term it'll be much easier for you than faffing with bottles at the stables!