10 minute feeds?

[CommanderShepherd]

Just been passed over to the health visitor 2 days ago. She was asking about ds feeding, told her he could be on for 30+ minutes. She told me that after about 10 minutes he will be full or take him off and offer the other side for 10 minutes. She basically said after that point he is using me as a dummy. Just curious if anyone else has been told this. I've been doing the 10 minute feeds for the past couple of days, ds seems ok, dirty nappies are up etc

Benydick, clearly your baby was not thriving. You had very poor care, if your baby sailed down the centiles like that without anyone spotting that this feeding was not normal :( :(

It had nothing to do with supposedly long feeds.

I always let mine feed on one side until they slowed down/stopped actively sucking or fell asleep and then swapped them onto the other side.

Sharon it's a shame your training did not equip you to recognise the difference between an effectively and comfortably feeding baby and a baby not feeding comfortably and effectively with a tongue tie....for eight weeks :( , though I take that back if you trained since then.

I noticed with my babies that they would flutter on the breast and this seemed to indicate when they had finished feeding. Some feeds would be quick (similar to a snack/quick thirst quencher) or a full on mega feed and both were equally fine and necessary.

It's very difficult to quantify bfing.

Bingo, you are right. Quantifying is difficult! That's why the only sensible thing is to watch the baby and not the clock

In the Armadillo post she does suggest to seek advice if a baby is feeding for over 40 mins at a time to check everything is okay.

Yes and the checking would include confirming the baby is healthy, happy, thriving, the feeds are pain free and comfortable. On its own the length of a feed is irrelevant

Dd- after about 10 days old she never fed for more than 10 minutes. Ever
Ds- I watched The Wire and House in their entirety, and then some, whilst bf him!

All babies are different

Tiktok kindly don't patronise me. Everywhere mentions feeds over 40 minutes being indicative of an issue. Even the breastfeeding support workers and specialist infant feeding coordinator told me there was no reason for feeds to be lasting forty minutes and having an unsatisfied baby but I guess of course it's possible we are all wrong and you are right

In my case DS was thriving my nipples weren't damaged etc was just not satisfied after feeding. So you would advise people to carry on with this on the same side for over forty minutes? What about the chance of mom getting sore? If a baby hasn't transferred enough milk in 40 minutes to satisfy them then there is a problem and I'm not really sure why you are arguing with that?

A satisfied baby should be spontaneously be coming off the breast by itself not continuing to feed over forty minutes. Are you are breastfeeding peer supporter? Do you advise parents this is normal as it really isn't and I'd hate to think of new mums sat feeding non stop at one feed all day long whilst there is an issue because someone on mumsnet said its normal!

Total rubbish! If u take lo off before they ate ready they will not get the right mix of fatty milk hence why you are getting more dirty nappies as they digest the sugary first bit of the milk much quicker. All babies are different so instead look for a change in the way they feed from deep sucks to comfort feeding.

Speaking as someone who has experienced thrush and blocked ducts, neither can be caused feeding for too long thrush can be made worse if your nipples become cracked from a poor latch and ducts can get blocked if you take the baby off early before milk has drained. When my lo was 2 weeks he took and hour ish to feed. At 5 months he is done in 10 mins but is not currently getting to the fatty milk at the back because he comes off too soon. As a result, his weight gain in slow right now and I long for those hour long feeds from the early days!

Sharon don't get angry.

A rule like 'the baby must be satisfied within forty minutes' is wrong.

It is highly possible that I am right and all the people you mention have just misunderstood how bf works.

I will post later in more detail.

What absolute bollocks your hv is spouting

To be fair Tiktok you do monopolise this board and you could be anyone. This is not just your patch and I specifically remember you gave me a lot of very unhelpful 'all sounds normal' advice when I was reaching out on here in the early weeks with my baby (different username then).

Nah that's rubbish.

It's best to feed from one side until they're full, so they get the hind milk, and then only go to the other side if they're still hungry after. Then next feed, next side.

It's totally normal for them to feed for longer than half an hour, but generally speaking if feeds are routinely taking longer than around an hour there may well be an issue you need help with.

I'm sure she said that the excessive feeding would lead to clogged ducts thrush etc.

It's worrying that this lady is employed to give out such misguided advice. Not emptying the breast is more likely to lead to issues.

Currently feeding dd, she's been going about 25mins one side. When she's done I'lll offer the other side (she won't take it) next time I'll start from that side. She'll feed til she brings herself off, sometimes 2 mins (a bit older & bloody nosy looking at noisy ds!) sometimes 50mins.

from NHS website
Feed your baby as often as they want. This is called baby-led feeding (it's also known as "on-demand" or "responsive" feeding). Let your baby decide when they’ve had enough. It's not necessary to time the feeds. In the beginning, it can seem that you're doing nothing but feeding, but gradually, you and your baby will get into a pattern of feeding (routine), and the amount of milk you produce will settle.

Perhaps your hv needs to be retrained

Yeah your hv is spouting crap. I highly recommend la letche league. Their coffee mornings are a fab place to meet other BF mums and they have advice/help lines. If you have a leader nearby they're often happy to come out to you and have a look to see everything's going smoothly

Babies don't use nipples as dummies, they use dummies as nipples.

At 2 weeks old comfort suckling is just as important as active feeding as its stimulating your supply anyway.

Unfair to say tiktok 'monopolises' the board. Blimey. She's a well respected poster for a reason, she's been posting must be almost or over 10 years. She's a trained BFC with NCT IIRC. But she never ever claims to be the one authority on BF nor does she object to being contradicted. You don't have to follow anyone's advice on here but there's no need to be nasty.

I think the 40 min thing you're talking at cross purposes. 40 min plus feeds are a reason to seek help especially if mum is worried. Tiktok is just saying in her capacity as a professional if she saw a mum presenting with 40 min feeds she'd be looking at other things, and if the feeds were just long but the baby was doing well her training says it's not an issue.

I'm guessing it might still be an issue for individual mums, perhaps with older children so a BFC's role is then to help the mum manage and arrange things in her life and/or feeding, so that they fit around each other.

Bendy, sorry if you feel I monopolise this board. I think that's wholly unfair. I am here a lot but that does not stop anyone else chipping in ! I say to people many times 'that sounds normal' adding or implying 'on what you have said here' because it's very rare that anyone can say for sure a situation is normal, when we can't have the full picture. If you found that didn't help you, I can't take responsibility sorry! I presume you got further help elsewhere and did not rely on three words from an Internet poster :)

Of course I could be 'anyone' - I could tell you more about myself that would add a lot of detail to that, but you'd be wise to remember I could be a liar. Mumsnet Managenent know who I am, have met me, and trust me, but I could be lying about that, too - so yes, be suspicious :)

Thanks, bertie.

I think you have explained it well.

Of themselves 40 mins plus feeds are not a concern. In fact, it's wholly impractical to have this as a benchmark. Babies tend to stop and start during a feed. They might take a few mins rest. They might be sucking vigorously and then rest a bit, but staying on. How can anyone possibly get an accurate picture of the time the baby is actually feeding? Stop watch?

In addition, sometimes babies do not have 'feeds' as separate entities. They have sort of 'sessions' :) where you are not sure if they coming to the end of one 'episode' or beginning another one.

But let's say you somehow time your feed by the clock, and calculate if you are on the sofa for forty mins plus there's something wrong. My point is there might not be - is the baby happy, thriving, growing, nappies normal, mother comfortable? If the answer is 'yes' then we may have a conversation about why this is not a sign that things need changing.

However, other children, busy life, mother literally unable to move from sofa all day every day, mother overwhelmed.....then we might explore ways the mother can spot when the baby is finishing, other ways to offer comfort, ways others can help.

It's individual. But to pathologise feeds of forty mins plus, and/or to train peer supporters and health visitors and anyone else into intervening or offering intervention, is to undermine confidence in what may well be a perfectly happy, rewarding breastfeeding relationship.

Being dogmatic about the time a 'feed' ought to last is how we get into a right mess.

Babies are individual, as are mothers, as are situations. Certain principles apply, nevertheless, and one of those is that you cannot, must not, assess breastfeeding by the clock.

Sharon, I have re read your posts.

I think you have a misunderstanding of breastfeeding.

You think the baby 'should' be satisfied after forty mins. If the baby isn't, there's a problem.

That's where you are misleading. You think breastfeeding is all about putting 'fuel' in the tank, and this must be done within a certain time limit.

It's not. Obv, BF is about nutrition. But it is also about relationships, and responsiveness, and comfort and connection, and individuality and change. You have to be flexible to allow for all of that - it can happen in five mins, an hour, over a number of days and weeks.

Where it doesn't happen is within a context where rules decide what the baby 'should be doing' :(

Yes tiktok of course they are ALL WRONG and you, some random on the Internet are right. I really don't know what some people are on at times

So a breastfeeding counsellor on here knows more than a health visitor and the specialist infant feeding advisor/breastfeeding counsellors where I'm from? All of us have had incorrect training and tiktok is the only one who got it right? I object to being called on my pretty professional knowledge and told I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about let alone a whole host of other professionals