Probably a bit early to say but I really hate breast feeding and I feel really guilty

[Dawnybabe]

I have an eight day old dd. I had to have an emergency caesarean and spent four days in hospital. I had real trouble trying to learn to breastfeed and every time I asked for help I had a different midwife on shift with a different opinion. I came home none the wiser and had to ff to stop her going hungry. I have managed to get her to latch on a few times, and sometimes we manage to get it right and she'll suckle for anything up to twenty minutes. Other times she refuses point blank, even though I think she's hungry cos she's mouthing at things and sucking on her hands. So I try to be firm with her as my midwife suggested and keep offering the breast and denying the bottle, which she obviously prefers cos she'll knock it back like there's no tomorrow. She refuses the breast, screams her little head off to the point where she's almost crying, and it makes me cry and I have to give in and give her a bottle, which she promptly empties. I have tried expressing with a pump, which is crap quite frankly and takes ages, although she will take ebm from a bottle. It hurts, she seems to hate it, and the only reason I'm putting the both of us through it is because I feel guilty at denying her the goodness of the natural milk. I want to persevere but I really hate it. Please someone give me some advice.

I really feel for you as I struggled with breastfeeding and gave up to early and regretted it, is there not a more relaxed environment in which you can get someone to help you with the feeding, your local clinic may know of a breastfeeding group.

The Mumsnet expert is tiktok. I've never directly sort her advice but my dd2 was sucessfully fed on advice she'd given others on here after a miserable time with dd1. Try browsing for her name in the Breast and bottle feeding threads. You can do that in the search all messages option. I understand how you are feeling and promise that if you get acess to some expert advice it does work and I never got anywhere with expressing. I understand that there are some mums on here who have only expressed for months so that does work but I do think there are tricks to doing that.

Good Luck

Thanks guys. It is so depressing to listen to your baby howl and know it's your doing. I know I need to persevere and other mums have had it much worse than me, but I just feel so fed up about it all and under pressure from the 'breast is best' mantra. It makes me miserable and she probably picks up on that.

Oh and by the way Weatherwax, I assume that's a Discworld reference? I wish I'd thought of that, only I'd have been Ogg!

I'm sort of in your situation, Dawny, except I haven't managed to make my baby latch yet, and I feel everything you're feeling. Often I just give up trying to breastfeed her after about 10 seconds because she's so unhappy and screamy and I know she's desperate for food, and this happens even when I try it half way through the feed, and I feel like my husband is looking at me thinking 'for eff's sake, why do you care how she's fed, it's all about you and your breast, isn't it?'. I want to say he isn't really thinking that, but maybe he is, who knows. He has sort of banned me from trying the breast in the middle of the night because 'that should be calm time'. And frankly I don't have the energy in the middle of the night to make her wait while we do the whole rigmarole of remembering how breasts work, when the breast consultant has weighed her before and after and told me she's getting nada from the breast. I'm expressing every 4 hours in the day, and have been advised, sensibly, by everyone, that I have to do it at night too.

I don't do it at night.

DD is 4 weeks old now, and I'm not going to give up at this point because I've had such positive advice from my bf consultant and GP. But these people have also said really positive things to me about formula. My bf consultant is a lovely middle aged English doctor, and she said she was born just after the war, her mum couldn't breastfeed, and they didn't have formula, so she was fed on powdered milk. She is brilliantly clever, rake thin and looks amazingly young. (I'm sure you know all the bad things associated with not breastfeeding.) My GP said the same - that there was a fashion when she was a child in China for not breastfeeding, and she is also incredibly thin and clever. My consultant said, really lightly, when I admitted I mostly fed her formula: 'What are you going to do, starve her? If the breast didn't work, you do what you have to do,' and I could have cried with gratitude.

In your case, it could just be tiredness and the fact that your baby is very new. I think you shouldn't beat yourself up whatever you choose. I've spent a month crying all the time because I can't feed my baby and she'll be stupid and overweight when she grows up and I'm failing her as a mother and I've missed one of the best experiences of my life. It's really a stupid thing to do to yourself, please don't do it.

Dawnybabe, it sounds as though you are doing really well so far, given all the difficulties you have had. Please don't feel too disheartened. It can take a while for babies and their mums to get the hang of breastfeeding.

It's really upsetting when you want to BF and your LO is less convinced - my DS & I struggled for weeks but I am ridiculously stubborn and refused to give up. For once in my life, my stubborness paid off & we ended up succesfully bf. But, if you can't/ don't want to continue because it's making you so miserable, then don't torture yourself. Formula is fine. Yes, it's not breastmilk but it's the next best thing, designed for that purpose. I tend to believe that a baby needs a happy mummy more than it needs breast milk. I think what MacNeil said is very true. Just do what is best for the 2 of you.

I would try to get some RL help though - try your MW and/ or GP.

The National Childbirth Trust : Breastfeeding HelpLine 0870 444 8708

La Leche League Breastfeeding Helpline: 0845 120 2918

Kellymom & Medela websites have some useful info too

Hope this makes sense. Good luck.

poor you dawnybabe. i know waht you mean that the midwives were no help due to conflicting advice. you have had a crap time and no wonder you hate it and don't know what to do.

try to get in contact with one of the support lines mentioned below. there are also two more

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers - 0870 401 7711

and

Breastfeeding Network - 0870 900 8787

if you are in the north east, i am willing to come and see you today as i have nothing planned - not a trained person just a mom how had a really rough time and managed to sort out the difficulties despite all efforts of the medical establishment.

top tip to get newborn babies to relax after also having a crap time in hospital - as yours has had - is to have lots of skin to skin as much as possible even when they are not hungry so that they relearn that being snuggled up next to mummy is a good place to be.

if you have someone to help, get them to pass you your baby after you settle into the bath. babies love these baths. and will feed a lot then.

also, let others do everything for you and just focus on feeding your baby.

Dawnybabe, you have had a crap start because of conflicting advice, not your fault at all....I am not sure I agree with your current midwife's advice to be 'firm', either. Feeding time - however it is carried out - should be happy and relaxed, and not a time for insitisting or struggling or denying.

Offering the breast to a baby who is screaming - sorry, no, this is not the way to go, and I am sorry because this is more conflicting advice for you It's horrible to be confused.

You need to talk to someone - any of the helplines given here, or NCT 0870 444 8708 - who will listen and who understands that feeding is not a fight. Fighting will make your baby even less likely to want to come to the breast.

Instead, keep your baby close to you, skin to skin if you can, and let her find her own way back to the breast. Express to maintain your supply - at least 8 times in 24 hours including at least once at night - because otherwise your milk will dwindle. Then you can give the ebm in a bottle (you may need a better pump than the one you have, or ask about hand expression). Enjoy the feeds, and enjoy being close with your baby; as soon as bf starts to be a struggle, give her a bottle of ebm.

But most of all, talk to someone who knows about bf and how to support you. Good luck.

Just wanted to add my support dawnybabe (I remember you from the pet threads!)

I too found bf awful for the first few weeks and spent most feeds in tears and swearing in frustration at my ds and myself . You've had the expert advice. I just wanted to say listen to tiktok and others on here as it is because of them that I am still bfing (now happily and easily!) at nearly 5 months.
At your stage I never thought I would get there and dreaded every feed. Midwives trying to be helpful manhandled my boobs into all sorts of strange shapes and grabbed my ds's head and forced him onto me, which eventually just made him scream as soon as he saw my boob. It was only when I took the advice on here and spent pretty much all day cuddling up to him and RELAXING about whether he latched on or not that it started to work. I think I had previously ignored all the advice to relax and get comfortable, thinking it was just to make me feel better - but it is really important. I was never going to make bfing work hunched over tense with an aching back and pleading with ds to get it right .
My ds had a few bottles in the first days too but then a lovely paediatrician told me to just focus on bf and gave me confidence - a chat with a couple of bf counsellors over several weeks improved things no end, and now it's like falling off a log .

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BF is not as easy for some as it is for others and some babies, just do it and others struggle.

Keep going with it and give it all you have. It is still very early days and the first 2 weeks is the hardest of all.

However if you do end up not bf do not beat yourself up about it. You would have done all that you could have and guilt really will not help you or your baby (goodness knows! us mums get enough guilt for one thing or the other!)

You will not be failing your baby if you end up bottle feeding. There's more to motherhood than boobs.

HI, it took me at least 3 weeks to establish brfding. It was hard going and yes we had all the conflicting advice (and lots of people telling me to give up) but can I just say that it really is worth persevering. I ended up brfding my dd until she was 1 and my ds until 9 months, so it was worth it!
(all those hundreds of ££££s saved if nothing else!)

Poor you. Just do what you think is right. It can be best to have no bottles. It's best not to buy them. We didn't and then just keep at it. It gets much easier and in fact it saves time and is actually enjoyable when they get bigger for all kinds of hormonal reasons.
Get a breastfeeindg counsellor to come to your house to help you with it or a relative who has successfully breastfed.

Dawnybabe, I really, really feel for you, because I've been where you are now. I couldn't believe how awful it was at the start. I couldn't get ds to latch on, had various midwives shoving my nipple in his mouth or telling me my boobs were the wrong size or I was too fair skinned etc. etc. When my milk came in my boobs swelled up to the size of watermelons, milk leaked out everywhere, and it hurt like f**k when he latched on, so much so that I took to biting down on a flannel to avoid screaming. Worst of all, he seemed to reject the breast, with only the occasional feed going well, so we supplemented with bottles. I perservered for a while, because deep down I wanted to breastfeed, but my confidence was destroyed and I gave up completely before he was 12 weeks.

Unfortunately, unless you are very lucky, breastfeeding in the first few weeks is sh*t! But please don't despair - there's nothing wrong with you, it happens to a great many women (why do you think bf rates plummet in the first 6 weeks), and it seems like it will go on forever, but it won't. What you need right now is lots and lots of support, which unfortunately can be the problem, as people generally aren't tripping over themselves to help breastfeeding women, even, tragically, the health professionals.

Someone further down quoted some helplines, so try them because you need proper advice from a trained breastfeeding counsellor. (Better still get on to your local NCT (www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com )and see if there's a counsellor who'll come out to you. In some areas the Breastfeeding Network (www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk) do a drop-in which is brilliant. Also you've got this website of course.

If you can give yourself a goal of reaching say 6 weeks, and see if by then you can see light at the end of the tunnel. In the meantime, try to minimise the bottles you give, if you can, and get as much help as you can from dh and any other family members.

At the beginning of this, I told you about my experiences with ds1. Since then I've had two more babies. Ds2 was bf until 2 1/2 years, despite the same difficulties at the beginning, and I'm still bf dd who's 2 next month, again with a difficult start. Just because you've got off to a bad start doesn't mean you won't be able to bf, but it could be very tough for a little while. Go easy on yourself - remember all this is not your fault or anything wrong with you - it's just what can happen.

Dawnybabe, I had same problem. Me and DD were in hosptal for five days and never had the same midwife twice. Got so many conflicting views that when I got home I dreaded DD waking up because I knew how hard it would be to try to get her to feed.
I know many people won't agree but after ten days, I switched to formula and for me it was the best thing I did. I did feel very guilty for a while but DD was happier and I felt I was able to enjoy my time with her.
You must do what works for you and DD.
Good luck

dawnybabe - just wanted to offer my support as well, with DD1 I had an awful time trying to get BFing established as she was jaundiced and wouldn't suckle but I was so bloodyminded that she was going to get breastmilk that I stuck with it. I initially gave her EBM then would offer the breast before each feed, slowly she and I got the hang of it. I did phone Le Leche League and spoke to a wonderful counsellor for about 2 hours on a day I was feeling particularly down, it's so true get past the first 3-4 weeks and it will become so easy. The skin to skin contact is great just let her lie next to you in bed and root around for the boob if she wants to. I fed DD1 for over a year. I was very lucky with DD2 though she was feeding before the cord was cut and has never stopped, the girl is a natural but most babies aren't and they need a bit of help to get them started.

Best of luck x

I took between 9 and 12 weeks to become completely comfortable and established at breast feeding with all three of mine. Even my most recent one was a nightmare, on top of the latching on difficulties I had cracked and bleeding nipples, then severe mastitis where i have never felt so ill in my life.

It did however get easier as the weeks went by and i am so glad i perservered. It takes a very strong and determined person to stick with it and keep going - often to their own detriment. As much as someone wants to continue its often easy to give up as after just having a baby you are at a time where you are exhausted both physically and emotionally.

Please don't feel it is your fault, i have finally accepted with my third that they need to learn how to do it to - its not what you do. But, and its a big but, professional advice is fantastic if you get it early enough.

Yes breastfeeding is best for the baby in every way and also for you in terms of health benefits but I have found with myself and others that there is often a price to pay - though only for a short time hopefully.

I used to supplemnet a feed for a bottle of formula at night for my second but that didn't help at all and I wished i didn't. I didn't take that route this time round.

Now for me, my daughter is exclusively breastfed and nearly 6 months old and its fantastic feeling solely responsible for her health and growth. Its not always easy to think in those terms in the early days.

i would also say not to bother too much with expressing until you feel more established. i did that early on with my first and i felt that it added to the problems as i could barely get any and i felt that if i wasn't feeding i was expressing and i was shattered and it just added to the pressure.

You are doing really well, its a shame no one tells you how hard it can be. Good luck with it - its only for such a tiny part of your/their life.

Well done Chocolatekimmy.

Dawny, it is worth persevering with bf because human milk is what baby stomachs are designed for. There are hazards associated with formula, but then there are also hazards associated with starving your baby, and you can only choose from what's available to you. The overweight/intelligence issues are peripheral and I am v skeptical about them.
It's not your fault that your bf was sabotaged at the beginning, but you can choose now whether to persevere or give up. Remember that switching to formula completely is a no-going-back decision and can also give you many more probs in the future. (See tons of other threads on bottlefeeding probs.) There is every chance you can establish bf now if you get the help you need and make it your priority. Every extra day of breastmilk is valuable to your baby. If you are giving it your best shot there is no need to feel guilty, whatever the result of your efforts.

I too was in your situation - c - section, a million different midwifes grabbing at me and trying to get ds to b/f. Tried it for a few days then gladly gave up and gave him formula. Can honestly say didn't regret it for a second and he is the healthiest two year old imaginable. Am now expecting number 2 and am not even going to consider b/f this time. Don't feel guilty about it if that's what you decide to do, and above all don't let anyone else make you feel guilty - it's your choice and millions of healthy babies the world over have been formula fed, with no detriment to their health, weight or bonding with their mothers.

I am so overwhelmed with all your kind words. It's so nice to know so many other people care and understand what you're going through. I have since seen my health visitor, and she was absolutely brilliant. She said at the risk of getting shot by the midwives, stick to formula for the time being, cos my midwife wanted me to drop it, and give breast milk as top ups. She said this will take the pressure off to do it all the time, and as I get more practised it will get easier and it will give me the confidence to increase it, as long as I keep expressing obviously. I could hug the woman. She also recommended breastfeeding after a hot bath, and at night when for some reason it comes better, and she was right. I have since managed it a few times with not too much resistance and I feel so much better. I don't feel so guilty and I feel more confident about the future. My midwife did point out that I ought to wait till dd calms down before trying again, which some of you have more or less said, in that it makes it much worse to turn it into a fight. I think we're getting there and thanks so much for all your help. It's lovely to read all your comments.
Especially the one from poppiesinaline about there being more to life than boobs! Like it!

Actually Magaddict, babies in the 3rd world who are formula fed are 25 times more likely to die of diarrhoea in infancy, than those who are breastfed. Obviously the odds are not quite so stacked against them in this country and I myself was a formula fed baby who is now healthier than my 3 sibs who were b/fed. (Our adult lifestyle choices have a lot to do with it!)

I'm glad your toddler is healthy, but the fact remains that incidences of infection leading to hospital stays in UK are much higher in formula fed babies, because they are not getting the antibodies against infection which are only present in breastmilk. For example, incidence of hospitalisation for diarrhoea is still 5 times as high in UK formula fed babies.

It seems to me that health professionals know that b/feeding produces better health outcomes on the whole, and that the govt wants to promote it in order to reduce the costs of sick babies, but they are not always able to support new mothers in a way that empowers them to go home and do it themselves. Breastfeeding is a learned skill and any one who finds it easy straight off is very lucky.

I got hold of a very good book recently - "What to expect when you're breastfeeding...and what if you can't" by Clare Byam-Cook. I really wish that I'd had it when DS was born because I think we could have been spared many of the problems we had with breastfeeding. I would highly recommend it.

It's a complete nightmare learning to breastfeed isn't it? I had the same experience in hospital. The midwives were very encouraging, but every one told me something different. I sympathise so strongly with how you are feeling at the moment. All I can say is try to keep perservering if you can. I never did get back to exclusive breastfeeding I'm afraid, but I did manage partial breastfeeding for 4.5 months. And by the end we were both really enjoying it and I was sad to stop.

I would say that you are doing all the right things. Keep trying to offer the breast at every feed and do try to keep on expressing when you can. I know it's crap and time-consuming but you are stimulating your supply. I expressed solely for a couple of weeks and gave the EBM along with formula before I dared to put DS back on the breast.

I just wanted to add something to my post. I was all ready to give up on breastfeeding completely as I felt utterly rejected by my DS and in turn I was unable to bond properly with him. Then, one day I was carrying him in the sling, in the kitchen I think, and he started rooting for my breast. I cannot begin to describe the feeling. I breastfed him that day and it was lovely. It went to pot again a bit after that, but then another day I just couldn't settle him so I was cuddling him swaddled in a blanket and he started rooting again, and just took to the breast. From then on things got much easier.

But if it doesn't work please try not to feel guilty about formula feeding. I've been there and I don't recommend it. It really is the next best thing and your daughter will come to no harm at all, especially with a mum who cares so much about her wellbeing.

Don't give her the bottle and she ain't gonna know any better! And yes it's tough....but you mention feeling guilty about bottles, so no good giving those, is there!
It is difficult the first 6 weeks and best to resign oneselfs that that will be what one does in those first weeks most of the time....completely normal if knackering!
If your breasts are very full expressing a little bit, just to make the nipples softer can help a lot!
Also contacting a bfc would definately be beneficial.....am sure someone will have the numbers...otherwise google breastfeedibg coucellor...spelling might not be right.......

I'm sorry, but refusing to give a screaming, hungry baby a bottle might not be the answer. There is nothing to be gained from that approach except a furious baby and an upset and exhausted mother. It is natural for a mother who is desperate to breastfeed to feel guilty giving a bottle (I know I did), but IMO it is much worse to leave a baby who is having difficulty feeding to scream with hunger.