The expression 'breastfeeding nazi'...

[emkana]

... is offensive and meaningless, just plain horrible. I really wish it wouldn't be used on Mumsnet anymore - I find it very upsetting that people do.

I've written this on another thread today, but I feel so strongly about it that I decided to start another thread.

How about 'breastfeeding fanatic', if you need to describe a certain type of breastfeeding supporter?

The point I'm trying to make (very badly) is... if it's the choice you have made, or a choice that was made for you, whether you BF or forumula feed, sometimes it's nice to hear people's advice, without the discussion......

BR

dinosaur, how on earth am i putting off mothers from asking questions about formula??? i thought i had been very clear that this happened occasionally...in describing it, i am giving the other side's opinion, namely i'm saying that formula feeding mothers should be supported as much as b/fding mothers should be. I'm extremely sorry if in doing that, i've put anyone off posting anything on mn. my original post on here was in response to a comment from JJ who posted that she wanted a phrase to describe people that are more than just enthusiastic about breasfeeding, but are fanatical to the point where to do anything else is seen as anathema. i've just re-read this thread, and i certainly didn't accuse you of being a fanatic aloha. Nor do I feel that the term breastfeeding nazi is a good one. having said that, i've used the term in describing gina ford (i have used her book, and was describing my feelings about her before i had read it, that is to say that i had been knee-jerkly anti her) i apologise for this. My father is half German, and my Polish grandparents were in siberia during the war, so i should know better than to use this phrase flippantly. I'm really sorry i seem to have got everyone's back up so much. i'm pretty convinced there are people, both here and in rl who feel judged for choosing to formula feed their baby (and as you say, the reverse is often true). it's usually expressed in an implicit rather than explicit way, so i don't think i can prove this. however, i seem to be required to prove my assertions on this thread, so like i say, i'm bowing out. i really hope there are no hard feelings about what i've said especially from you aloha, as i never set out with any intention to attack you (or anyone frankly) at all, but rather to pass comment on what some posters can sometimes do (as we all can) which is pass judgement on others. sorry

No hard feelings Sophable We have very similar experiences of mixed feeding, I think and so have a foot in both camps, iyswim. My only disagreement is that you feel mothers who ask for advice have their wishes ignored, and I just don't see that personally. Also, I think Mumsnet is full of people with different experiences who bring their experiences to the table here - ie you will find threads saying to a mother 'Go for the section' and the next one will say, "Ugh, no, try for a vaginal birth" - ardent anti cc-ers on threads about sleepless babies next to equally ardent advocates of it etc. I think it's the nature of the beast!

dinosaur! 'some' people 'i know i'm being extreme'...i think anyone reading this would be very clear on the fact that i'm not talking about a blanket response to this issue at all...this is so frustrating...

Sophable, I think you're right not to go and unearth old threads. Yikes....imagine! Let them die!

Is it possible you have remembered them in a way which illustrates my point about people being v.v. sensitive at vulnerable times?

Not everyone understands how tricky this area is. Bunnyrabbit says people ask her why she didn't bf for longer....it's none of their biz, of course, but they may be genuinely interested and not have a clue this is a sore point or that it could be a bit personal. To many people, it's like choosing between disposables and cloth, a sort of lifestyle thing, and without any 'baggage' at all.

If BR is in an area/has many friends or family where bf is common, then they may not be aware that actually, quite a lot of mothers bottle feed.

BR, you feel there is a critical under-current (you say you feel people's eyes 'judging' you for using a bottle) whereas people may be just looking and admiring your baby or wondering where she got her cute jacket from, or what sort of teats you're using or whatever!! Is that possible?

Overt criticism in public is very rare, of breast or bottle feeding, and when it comes to interpreting 'looks', how many of us can be sure we get it right?

no apologies needed...live by the sword and all that...i'm an argumentative poo-head at times, and need a hauling up in terms of keeping to assertions that i can prove...i live to discuss heatedly another day!

I bottle fed ds out and about and never once felt criticised or judged for it - really. I didn't think I was treated any differently than when I breastfed - except sometimes I was embarrassed to breastfeed when everyone else was bottlefeeding around me (I was one of the last in my NCT group to breastfeed) and I did feel self-conscious about it sometimes. I don't often say this but one of the reasons I stopped at just over a year (not the only one by any means, but definitely in my mind) is that I know women who breastfeed older babies do get critical comments all the time and judgements about how it's wrong and they are needy etc. People have made remarks to me about other people who breastfeed past early babyhood. Newspaper columnists say it. I do sometimes feel judged when ds has a dummy - but nobody has never actually said anything so that may be paranoia.

Obviously that wasn't a reply to you Sophable! Just some random thoughts in my head triggered by this thread.
Argumentative? Impulsive? Wouldn't know the meaning of those words....ahem..

BTW re all these 'looks' do you think anyone other than other breastfeeding/bottlefeeding mothers even notices women feeding babies?? I'm not sure I ever noticed one before I had my ds.

Could it be that if you are doing something you feel perfectly ok about and people look at you you either don't notice or assume they are looking at you because of something else?

And if you are at all sensitive about what you are doing (like aloha and the dummy, or BR who is bottle feeding and has sad memories of not bf) maybe you see looks more, and maybe interpret the negatively.

Just an idea

aloha (and tiktok for that matter...although sometimes things aren't in your head...possibly...sometimes...).

A little bit of both I think, some people are probably just looking at my gourgeuos son, some may be judging me.. I know I certainly look at BF mothers a smile... they probably think I'm a mad woman!!

As for baggage, well two things to mention.

1. My DH saw an article on TV the other day which made him fume... it was concerning the choice between BF and bottle. He said they did make it sound like a lifestyle choice and in fact like you always have a choice, which in some cases (mine) you don't. After seeing me go through my 3 week trauma, he was absolutely livid at the misrepresentation concerning BF, promoting the 'fact' that anyone can and it's your choice not to.

2. My local Mothercare has been refurbished recently and they now have two 'rooms' One is the parent and baby room for changing and bottle feeding. Lino floor, quite chilly, hard, barely upholsterered vinyl bench seat for feeding. The other is a carpeted room with those new style rocking chairs, nice and warm, soft lighting, water cooler etc. you guessed it.. this is the nursing room for breast feeding. So, because I am bottle feeding DS and I are not allowed to be confortable!! I've got to feed him next to other babies pooey bottoms? I don't bl**dy think so. I heated my bottle up in the "waiting room" and went straight into the nursing room, took my coat off, sat on a comfy chair and fed DS.

Oh and yes you know I think I am going to contact Mothercare and complain!!!

BR

Are you sure the other room is for breastfeeding mothers only? That sounds v v odd. The rooms in John Lewis/Peter Jones are for all mothers feeding babies (and have those lovely comfy chairs!)

I agree with aloha.....I cannot believe Mothercare would knowingly ban you from a comfy chair....I bet their signage is misleading. You should tell them!

John Lewis's feeding rooms ( all) are signed with a bottle....but breastfeeding mothers use them!

I agree with your dh, bunny.

Anything I see about bf which makes it sound as if all that was needed was a decision to 'do it' without mentioning the support you need, the setbacks you can have that make it hell, and the fact that many, many women give up in great sadness makes me cross, too.

There is this article in the Guardian which says the same thing, more or less.

I can understand when people recommend breastfeeding to someone who's not considered it, or recommend alternatives to, say, introducing formula. I don't agree with it, but that's one of the things that I've learned that is my problem.

People do tend to say what they think here and many times the posts illustrate the force of their belief. (I've been labelled a "child abuser" before... ahem... )

What gets me are subsequent posts which say that what is given to the babe doesn't matter. Tiktok, I can see your point about feeding your child tried and true brands of formula. A lot of people aren't like that though and research is continually being done on formulas -- this is strongly encouraged by the people responsible for guidelines on infant nutrition. Many times it seems the only information available on particular brands of formula, esp with new stuff added, is from the companies themselves.

I have always thought it was a shame mumsnet didn't have a resident "formula expert" (like mears is with midwifery and tiktok is with breastfeeding). It does seem like it's underappreciated here sometimes how carefully women think about what they're feeding their children if they bottle feed.

oops, just reread -- tiktok doesn't feed her child formula, but she was saying that if she did, it would be the tried and true ones.

sorry for any confusion!

That's right, JJ.....I was speaking hypothetically.

You're right about information regarding formula. I can't imagine where one would source good, independent and comprehensive info. The manufacturers don't say much, and are careful about what info they trumpet - I mean, do they tell us where they source the LCPs they think we should be keen on? No, they don't. They're from processed algae. Challenge to the marketeers: make that one sound yummy, if you can!!

The fact it's from algae doesn't make it any better or worse in my view than if it came from somewhere else - my point is that manufacturers don't exactly shout about what they put in formula, as they do want you to buy it

aloha, the john lewis in oxford st has a separate breastfeeding area - more for modesty's sake I think (not that I have any ) - as well as a bottle feeding room.

I always assume the room with a bottle on the door is jsut as much for me breastfeeding as it is for someone bottlefeeding and viceversa.
My local mc has a parents room for feeding and changing and a Mummys room where people both breast and bottle feed. This makes sense to me as sometimes I do feel the need to breastfeed without a man there and appreciate a room where there will probably be no men. Other times I go in to the parents room so I can still talk to dh when breastfeeding.
Surely it is a good idea to have 2 rooms as not all mums want to feed in front of men. This isnt excluding mums who are bottlefeeding just giving some privacy to breastfeeders.

Dinosaur, that's hilarious!

Tiktok, yeah, that's why it's too bad someone doesn't know the ins and outs of the brands, what they contain, which is good for what... I have noticed that manufacturers don't encourage best practices either (eg selling thickened formula over the counter).

Can I ask you if you were agreeing with me that people need to know about hypoallergenic formula as a preventative measure for bottle-fed babies at risk for allergies? It's ok if you weren't, but I'm seriously chuffed (if that means what I think it does.. thrilled?) if you were.