What to say to people who say "this formula is CLOSEST to breastmilk" -

[Lucy1977]

Hi

I don't want to cause offence to anyone, but in my mind an infant formula cannot be "closest" to breastmilk but I cant get my words together to explain this to people who say "I use "x" formula because it's supposed to be closest to breastmilk".

Anyone help?

Thanks
Lucy

LOL. New business venture is born. And all from a mumsnet thread.

Lucy says: "Seems unfair to lead these mothers under a marketing strategy rather than actual proof that their produce is closer to bm than another formula."

Lucy - precisely.

Now here's a thing - maybe 'being close to breastmilk' is an impossible thing to be, or to judge. Given that formula can never be able to replicate the dynamic nature of breastmilk's antibodies, to take just one example, maybe we should just look for the formula which nourishes the most number of babies adequately with the least risk of bacterial contamination of the powder, and the lowest incidence of, say, constipation?

Breastmilk's antibodies are made to order - the mother's body makes them in direct response to the pathogens in her and her baby's environment, and the baby 'orders up' other ones with his saliva. We're not gonna get that any time soon with another mammal's milk, dried and fiddled with in a factory. When seen in this context, maybe it really doesn't matter how many fatty acids you stick in the resulting mix....so why not be honest about it?

I mean, the manufacturers themselves say they would like to give mothers more information - which always makes me smile, because it's pretty certain they do not want this information to include the risks of bacterial contamination, manufacturing defects, and the impact on infant health.

Nooooooo...marketing-led 'information' is either cute and fluffy, or pseudo-scientific, making health claims about fatty acids which at least one country (Canada) has forbidden them to do, as the evidence isn't there.

I don't think any of these bits of info should be thought of, or presented, as 'evils' (eidsvold's post). Any infant feeding education and information should be open, honest and truthful with mothers, without cute stuff and cod-science. Most babies in the UK have infant formula at some point. Mothers should be offered top quality product, at a low price, without the need for expensive marketing frills....and the information available to them should have no limits.

Speaking of marketing,that in yer face Macdonalds shenanigans to my right is beginning to piss me off no end.

We are sdafe nowhere.

One of the reasons I avoid shops and tv is to escape this crap but even on MN there is no peace.

Hmmm, but weasel milk might be very similar in make-up to human milk, yet still not "work" for humans. I think there's a lot more to breast milk than percentages of proteins, fats, cabohydrates etc.

Actually, I take my hat off to the developers of formula, because breast milk is amazing stuff and they've managed to make something which may not be as good as the real thing, but which babies can thrive on and which is truly lifesaving.

Crossposted with dozens of people there.... but just wanted to add that I imagine the original developers of formula were simply aiming to devise a food for babies whose mums couldn't breastfeed.

Then somewhere along the line a someone realised what a huge market there would be if you could con the general public into preferring ff over bf

Formula is OK for what it is, but as tiktok points out, it can't come close to the real stuff in certain aspects. That's fine, imo, if the alternative is not feeding your baby at all, but less fine if you just can't be bothered to bf (though I'm not sure how common that is really).

you say "i dont care hwo you yourbaby"

"i dont care hwo you yourbaby"

Then change the subject while they're still trying to puzzle out what on earth you said...

I'd say nothing as its none of your dammed business how other people feed their babies! Unless of course you are a HV in which case if a mother has made a decision to bottle feed her child you should be non judgemental and supportive.

riab - you obviously haven't read the whole thread.

asking what, though?
how do they market it?
or how should they?
personally, I would prefer they didn't market it at all I think it should be much more strictly controlled and distributed

ah yes i can see it now, after deciding i couldn't BF i should have been amde to line up at the chemist and buy my formula for DS only after filling out numerous forms etc. When we ran out of formula in the mniddle of the week I would be forced to travel/fill in yet more forms instead of nippng over to the local store. I should have been given no information or help about formula feeding because that would be marketing and so i should have been left to work out for myself how to feed my baby. I should have been marked and shamed for needing such supplies of a controlled subtance.

btw to the OP, sorry i posted before i read oyur explanation fo why you started the thread - no offence taken at YOUR posts.

The picture of the twins is awful , really made me feel sick and just adds to mums awful guilt if ff. I cant seemt to get out of my head the feeling that may be that image is sort of a reverse propaganda in favour obviously of BF , like a shock tactic for those to qoute wellimum "just can't be bothered to bf ". Really not a very positive way mind. We dont know all the circumstances concerning the poor babys death , there may have been many other factors. Im MIXED feeding right now and also cant understand why the FF companies imply "closest to breast milk",its not really a substitute , its just all thats available as an alternative, what else is there really if expressing doesnt work????

I go to a BF group and the women running it is totally undertanding that in our society BF is not always the easiest thing to do, which was such a relief. I was so nervous going when I 1st went I felt so bad saying I needed help with the mix feeding. Its a shame , as many mums in this qaundry would just give up totally with the bf & not ask fr help to mix but I still want to do it in some way.

gosh riab! - what a post

bctmum, well when someone says it should be 'controlled and distributed' i get a bit het up.

But riab, there's a world of difference between marketing and being informed.

If formula were a prescription medication (the scenario you've outlined), you would want lots of info obviously, but you would want unbiased information not marketing.

Hadn't seen that riab.

I certainly do not think formula should be prescription only - what a thought. Has someone suggested this? What on earth would a doctor know about whether a mother or baby 'needed' fornula, and why should mothers get 'permission' from anyone to use it?

There's no need to market (ie advertise and promote and commercially brand) formula milk. Mothers who want/need it should be able to obtain it easily, and if they want advice on preparation, different types and so on, their HVs should be well informed enough to advise them.

I think the control should be on marketing it, and it should not be distributed to places that break the law about the way its sold.

But riab - no need for form filling

I read somewhere that formula was originally developed as a way to use up whey, which was a by-product from the manufacture of something else. Unfortunately, I can't remember what, but I'm sure some other mumsnetters will know.
It satrted out very much a business-driven product, rather than one developed for altruistic reasons - and that is still the case today.

Well, if it was on prescription, it would be free.....thats a plus side I suppose. I think the charge for formula is extortionate.

I'm glad I get DD's Wysoy on prescription otherwise it would cost £9 a tin.

melsy - I remember seeing that photo of the twins about 10 years ago in a magazine. The mother is in Pakistan and had a boy and a girl. Her in-laws didn't want the girl and convinced the mother she wouldn't have enough milk to feed both. The original article was about the cultural differences of valuing a boy rather than a girl. Have no idea why the girl died if she was receiving formula. I remember being very upset by the photo for ages.

This thread has produced some very emotional responses, hasn't it?

I breast fed my 2 but was very anti anyone who would make someone feel guilty for 'failing' or even 'choosing' not to do so.

Breast is best, we all know that, but yet mums from lower socio economic groups are (apparently) far less likely to bf.

Are they more likely to believe the slogans and feel that they're feeding their babies a 'designer label'?

I think the photo is normally used as part of campaigning against inappropriate marketing of formula - I have never seen it used in any breastfeeding support activities, and I don't think it's very suitable for that....mothers in the UK would not identify with it, anyway. The point about formula promotion in poor countries is that the money may not be available to buy sufficient formula, and the water used to make up the milk powder may be neither available nor clean. If the baby gets sick as a result, there may be no money or resources for treatment.

that photo has really really upset me too poor little girl.

fortyplus, I don't think it's to do with designer labels....it's just what becomes culturally normal for different socio-economic groups, plus the research that says these groups feel more uncomfortable bf if anyone can see them doing it. The decision to breastfeed then becomes much more fragile.

possible contributing factors to the death of the female twins would be:

the lack of a reliable and safe source of drinking water with which to make up formula

the lack of money in the family to buy formula and give in the recommended water to powder. trying to stretch the powder over more feeds

the first instance will lead to d & v and all the ill health those bring especially when doubled up with the likely scenario of not being able to find the money to pay for a visit to the doctor or the buy the prescribed medication - that is, if a doctor is available. most medical care the world over is NOT free.

the second malnutrition.

both these instances are very real in the 3rd world. and happen quietly everyday all over the world but not necessarily in such a dramatic way.

the photo is dramatic but nevertheless comes from a real incident as far as we know.

i am not trying to make anyone feel guilty. posted the photo in the context of a discussion where someone held the position of 'why does it matters that formula companies make the claims they do.'

that photo really upsetted me too when i first found it. in fact it haunted me for a few days and still do when i look at it.

this is what happens when free formula samples are given to women in hospitals in the developing world with the implicit association that if it comes from the industrialised world it must be a good thing.