Breastfeeding help/advice

[MooMaid]

Hi all,

Hoping someone can offer some helpful advice as I'm starting to feel down about the whole breastfeeding thing.

I have a 4 week old DD born under slightly traumatic circumstances and I can't really remember when I first breastfed her (as in how long after EMCS) but we did have to hand express and feed her using a syringe for the colostrum. We eventually started breastfeeding but she had problems latching on (doesn't appear to have tongue tie issues from what I was told by midwife) and used to 'faff' about on my nipple. The whole thing was stressing me out.

When I got home I was advised by my community midwife and support worker to use nipple shields, which we did. They definitely have worked, she latched on and fed without issue.

Now 4 weeks on, I've been thinking about the logistics of feeding in public and the difficulties using nipple shields will add to this (DD knocking it off my boob, milk spillage, trying to discretely put it on...). In addition, I keep thinking if I forgot to take my shields out with me, I wouldn't even be able to feed her!

So, I've tried a couple of times without the shields but she doesn't latch on AT ALL. I wouldn't have said I have flat or inverted nipples but when she sucks my nipple isn't very elongated so it's almost as if she doesn't really know she should be latching on to the nipple. Even when I view my nipple through the shield immediately after she's come off, my nipple isn't very 'long'.

Whilst the shields have been brilliant, I think they've made DD a bit lazy now and I'm starting to think about giving up breastfeeding. It all seems too hard. She's feeding every 2 hours at the moment, I'm knackered, I'm having to keep washing the shields, I can't feed her without them and they sometimes make a mess.... it's getting me down.

The support in my area hasn't really been that good although perhaps is normal so I've been considering paying for a private lactation specialist - I've seen one in my area but they're quite expensive and given I'm on maternity leave I don't know whether or not to do it (£120 for 2hr home visit followed by £70 for follow up visits). I'd contact my NHS HV for lactating advice but I can't even remember who to contact and to be honest, I've lost a little faith in the overall support round here (multiple things happened inc post infection missed despite me constantly complaining I didn't feel well), plus they don't really seem to listen to me or spend the time I need.

So I guess I'm asking if anyone has any advice? I've looked at kellymom and LLL but whilst it's useful advice, it's just not really transferring into practical advice for me. Would you pay for a lactation specialist to help you? Has anyone used one? And has anyone successfully stopped using nipple shields? Do you have any recommendations in what to look for in a specialist?

Thanks in advance (and sorry for epic post)

I forgot to add DD is so windy and I do my best to make sure she doesn't get air in via the shields but I don't know whether it's coincidental or not. She isn't sleeping well at night because of it - constantly arching her back, kicking legs, grunting and groaning despite us burping her and she possets/sick on a regular basis. She didn't settle until 3am last night and my DH is almost certainly going to bear the brunt of my mood if this continues because I'm so tired. This is another reason I'd like to try remove the use of the shields to see if it improves her wind!!

Hi, I don't know much about nipple shrilds but wanted to post for a bit of moral support. I had difficulties with latch at first, although as wad getting milk which helped. I struggled on in pain until someone told me about the extended latch (it has another name as well, maybe someone can remind me). You can find videos on you tube, it helped me enormously, and I bf for 2 years. I also just wanted to encourage you yo keep going, if you can get past this it will soon seem like a distant memory. You've done so well so fat, despite a lot of problems. Xx

As wad should be as was!

Hi Moo. You're doing really well despite the traumatic birth etc. Well done I haven't personally used a lactation consultant/specialist but have called LLL who were lovely but didn't really help with my specific problem so completely understand there. Everyone is different and we all have slightly different problems don't we. Blimey that's a lot for the specialist though didn't realise they were that much. One thing I will say is cleaning and sterilising bottles in more of a faff than a nipple shield! Also feeding in public is always daunting at first but after a while you won't even care and before you know it the feeding problems will be long gone and the tantrums take over :-) Sorry not much help but do whatever you need to don't let yourself stress over it too much or worry. Good luck x

Hi Moomaid, I am training to be a breastfeeding peer supporter. Where I live we volunteer at the local children's centres. Are you in the UK? Have you asked your health visitor if there are any breast feeding support groups you could go to? I would be surprised if there is no free help for you as the government is keen to promote breast feeding these days (keeping hospital costs down for sick infants).

Your nipple shape shouldn't affect breastfeeding, as really your baby needs to take the nipple right back into her mouth where it is nice and soft and not causing you pain.

I did use nipple shields with my first, as she had a difficult start too. I just used to give my DD a go on my boob without it then whip on a shield if she was really struggling. I spent a long time in those early weeks practising our technique and latch.

If you can get to a support group locally then they can give you some great advice. Also don't be frightened to get a second opinion on the tongue tie, I know some people who had to really push for the right diagnosis.

You could try using a "latch assist"' which kind of sucks your nipple out before you feed. I had one which I think was by the same people as make Lansinoh.

The exaggerated latch is also a good thing to try, as PP has mentioned. You could also try expressing a little before a feed so that you're not quite so engorged, if that's an issue.

You may also find that as your baby gets bigger it becomes easier on its own, not much help now of course, but it can be the case.

Hi Moo

Well done for carrying on this long. A good friend of mine used nipple shields for ages with her first, but eventually got rid. As we speak she's tandem feeding her three year old and four month old.

First, try and put your bad experiences aside and call your HV and ask if they have a Trust BFing specialist for 1:1 help. They can be hit and miss, but the one I got via the NHS with my first was shit-hot and we ended up feeding for 17 months. I'm eight months into BFing my second.

In the meantime, go onto YouTube and look for extended latch as a PP said, 'flipple' is another good one to look for and Dr Jack Newman. Another thing to try Googling is 'suck training'.

Also, try taking her in the bath with you. The warmth and water may help to relax her and encourage her to latch on. Lots and lots of skin to skin is also vital (and when I say 'lots' I mean at least an entire day with DH playing maid).

The wind and two hourly waking...that just sounds like a newborn, really. I wouldn't blame the nipple shields for that.

One to one, real life help is what you need though, so do get onto your HV again.

You've done so well to get to 4 weeks despite difficulties. Well done. I wonder whether it might help to go back to basics and tap in to baby's feeding reflexes; Google "biological nurturing", all about skin to skin contact, laid back positioning and allowing baby to latch herself on. She might latch on naturally when half asleep if you want to give that a try. I'd also suggest you try calling either LLL helpline or NCT support helpline, it can really help to just talk things over, especially if support is sparse in your area. It's so hard to feel like you're on your own!

A lot of your story is similar to ours. Left hospital using nipple shields after struggling to latch on. Trouble with nipple shields is that baby has to work harder to get the milk out and feed more frequently. The first two weeks I felt like I was permanently attached.
We ended up in a and e after a week as doc had lost more than 10% body weight. The paediatrician said he had a very mild tongue tie but wasn't the cause of our problems. Ended up supplementing with forumla. We then went to our local nct breastfeeding support group and immediately they picked up that he had severe tongue tie which was highly likely to be the problem. Had it snipped privately a week later and now he feeds brilliantly. It took a good 6-8 weeks to build my supply back up, reduce the top ups and for him really to get the hang of it, but I'm so pleased we persevered.
In my experience midwives and health visitors are very very poor at spotting tongue tie and surprisingly not very knowledgeable about breastfeeding in general. Do you have a local nct or lll breastfeeding group near you? Might save you having to get a private lactation consultant?
Good luck. You're doing really well.

Ooo yeah what Elpha said about the all day snuggling skin to skin. Great excuse to stay in bed and cuddle non stop too :-)

Forgot to say also that I had quite a flat nipple on the one side, but that doesn't seem to cause any problems now he has enough freedom in his tongue.

Mine struggled to latch if my boobs were enforced when they were still tiny. I found squishing my breast a bit so that my nipples were more sticking out helped. Wait till DD opens her mouth really wide and shove your boob in as far as you can. I found with DS that the first 10 seconds would hurt a LOT, whilst he got everything into the right position. I used to count backwards from 10, by the time I got to zero it had stopped hurting. If it still hurt, I took my nipple out (little finger at the corner of the mouth to break the suction) gave myself a 10second break and started again.

I don't have any experience with nipple shields. Id suggest sitting down / lying down with DD and setting aside a whole afternoon to just cuddle and feed her without shields and let her figure it out. The technique will be slightly different, but once she's figured out the best way to suckle on an actual nipple she will be fine.

You are doing really well OP, particularly after an EMCS. Wind and 2hour feeds all sounds very normal for a newborn, you're doing brilliantly x

Thanks all - it's just all so daunting isn't it.

I'll have a look at some of the suggestions/you tube and see if this can help us. I hadn't thought of NCT - I'll check them out too to see if they have any support groups.

It's good to know the feeding and wind is normal - you just have no idea when it's your first and you second guess everything you do!

Obviously if I can find some local support I'd rather do that but just feeling a bit desperate hence looking for private help - but obviously that comes at a cost!! I am in the UK, so will hunt for the paperwork HV gave us and see what it says about groups on there too. I guess I just feel like I need some specific help, rather than generic help as someone previously said. A bit of hand-holding I think ha ha!

The early weeks are the hardest, you're doing well. Have a good think about what you really want to do, it won't matter either way (boob or bottle) as long as it's what you want, go easy on yourself

Well I checked the pile of papers I was given and there appears to be a breastfeeding group tomorrow so I'm going to see if I can get to it and see if anyone can help. Not sure what to expect in a group environment though!

Have you tried the Breastfeeding Network? they have a helpline and may be able to arrange help from a volunteer (depending on where you are). www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/breastfeeding-help

Sorry link didn't work
[http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/breastfeeding-help]
Hope things get easier for you.

I didn't have a traumatic birth but my dd had huge issues latching and I had to express colostrum for days before she would latch with the help of nipple shields.

At this point I had been told to give up and just do formula which I didn't want to do and was I over the moon when she latched with the shields.

We went on using the shields for months, in fact we didn't fully get rid of them till she was 6 months and I they went on feeding her without shields beyond her second birthday.

Yes they are a faff. And i did feel like I was constantly feeding her in the first few months but actually some babies are like that even without shields. Some do snack and want comfort. It is exhausting feeding a newborn.

I ended up having 3/4 nipple shield cases, there was always at least one case in my bag. I never forgot them that way. There were leakages, but to be honest I had friends without shields who would squirt milk across a cafe accidentally. They are dramas you can laugh about afterwards. And you get good at feeding discreetly with them.

I kept trying her without them, she got good at feeding in the night sleepily without them from about 4 months and we transitioned from there. My nipples were sore and not used to it so a slow transition worked. I had help from local nhs lactation unit who weren't bothered much about the shields. And I got mastitis at 5 months but was reassured by gp and breast consultant the shields had nothing to do with it.

Good luck and well done for persevering

That's brilliant that you're going to a BFing group tomorrow. I'm sure they'll be able to give you practical help with positioning and latch. If not, they'll be able to signpost you to someone else.

Hi Moo did you manage to get to a group today and get some helpful advice??

Hiya

Well I went to a group but turns out the breastfeeding advisor doesn't go there anymore (website obvs not up to date) so didn't get any advice.

On top of that one of the organisers I was talking to about it made me (unintentionally I'm sure) feel bad as when I said I was using shields, and had been for 5 weeks, she said "oh, that's a bit of a long time isn't it" and "you need to be careful that your milk supply doesn't reduce".

Why is everyone so anti-shields?! And what the hell else am I supposed to do when DD won't latch on to my nipple (tried again tonight).

Anyway, I'll look for another group or breastfeeding advisor and see what happens.

They're "anti-shield" because they haven't engaged their brains and their empathy function!

In the past I think shields were thicker than they are now, and could make it harder for the baby to effectively stimulate milk supply. So there's a lot of misinformation out there about this. Please don't take it to heart, it was a thoughtless comment and said from a position of ignorance.

Can you look on Facebook to see if there is a BFing support group near you? I know for my local area there is excellent info on fb, with groups in different towns every day.

Difficult to I know but brush off that comment from the silly lady and just keep on keeping on. Blimey there's so much to feel guilty about when you have children don't let someone make you feel bad at all for trying your bloody hardest. X

You're doing so well to still be BFing.