Fed up with BF

[Neilsmum]

DS is 10 weeks old in 2 days.Was being BF with one formula feed a day.Gaining weight well and pooing-peeing well.The problem is he is constantly snacking and snoozing.He doesnt sleep well because he is hungry but then is too sleepy to feed.I am so exhausted.Havent slept well since god know how many days.Every night, the pattern is like this-feed at 10.30, sleeps till 2.After that wakes up at 3,4,5 and 6 crying and will quieten only if given the breast.Feeds for 2 minutes, falls asleep.I am shattered.Had a massive row with dh today for no apparent reason.He is so wonderful. i am always irritable due to lack ofsleep andgetting depressed.
Will switching to formula make my life easier?I am a doctor, so know all the benefits of BF and feel so guilty to want to do this.But I am not enjoying BF but feel so pressurized to continue.Am I being a bad mother?

You are not being a bad mother. Bfing is very hard, I know I couldn't do it. It takes a lot of mental toughness to get through the beginning. Formula may not be your answer to solve the sleep. My sil's ds is 10 months and still wakes up 2-3 times a night and stays up for at least an hour.

Don't give up bfing unless you really want to. There is nothing wrong with formula feeding if it's what you want to do. If you have any doubts, don't give up breastfeeding because you might regret it later.

Have you tried offering a pacifier? It sounds like you ds just wants to suck on something, it doesn't always have to be your breast.

What I suggest you do is as soon as your dh walks in the door hand him the baby and go out. Just get away from the baby patrol for at least an hour. Go for a walk, take a bath, take a nap. It's hard in the beginning when you feel glued to your baby. This pattern will straighten out, in the mean time take care of yourself. Too many new moms don't take care of themselves, and don't let other people take care of them.

Some good ideas from MKG

Neilsmum, this is not a breastfeeding 'problem' - it's a lack of sleep problem. If you switch to formula you may make no difference to the sleep issue, and you may end up feeling regretful at giving formula, which has (despite MKG's words) health risks. No one wins in that situation

Sort out the sleep - co-sleep, for instance. Your baby is crying to be with you, not to fill an empty tum. Co-sleeping can mean more sleep for everyone

yes - try co-sleeping - then you can bf & rest at the same time. Wonderful.

Also - Get your dh to do everything whilst you stay in bed resting & bf for a day.

I agree with what MKG says that it's probably not a b/f problem, but more a sleeping problem. I b/f my ds every time he woke until he was about 4 months and was pulling my hair out by then... Same sort of pattern as you: 10pm, 1am, 4am, 5am, 6am - 7am snacky b/f. I think if you do this, it reinforces their waking. Perhaps try offering a bottle with some cool boiled water so your ds has something to suck on or just try to get him back to sleep.

What weight is he? I think their ability to go longer between feeds depends more on their weight than their age...

I just wanted to make you feel better from a medic/parent point of view. I'm an SpR in Paeds, so like you know all of the benefits of bf, but I have ended up mix feeding my dd. I also know several other Paeds who have gone down this route to, in their words, save their sanity.

Now I don't know if there might be something about the personality of docs that makes us find it harder to adapt to the demands of bf or what but I wanted to let you know that you will not be the only medic to ff! You have to do what you think is best, not what you feel expected to do as a doc.

I want to temper those views with a little word of warning that I still do sometimes feel sad that I have not exclusively breastfed but dd is nearly 6 months now and so, related to my return to work, our bf will soon end entirely and I really will miss it.

From a practical point of view I would suggest co-sleeping as others have done. I felt totally happy with doing it myself and couldn't have coped with nighttime feeds at all if I hadn't done it. I know that hv's etc warn against it for the risk of SIDS but I knew that my other risk factors were negligible and I know of a Consultant Paed who specialises in SIDS who feels that given no smoking/drinking/drugs co-sleeping is safe.

Hope that helps, I am regular mnetter but I name change whenever I reveal my job as generally I try to keep mnet apart from my rl.

Hi Neilsmum.
You're not a bad mother at all.
I'm a GP and ended up giving up BF at 6 weeks as it was a struggle from the word go - difficult latching, frequent feeding, colic then a thrush infection put the final nail in the coffin. I felt so guilty at giving up and guilty that I never enjoyed it.

FWIW as soon as dd was fully on formula (I expressed & mix fed for a while) she started sleeping through so from that point of view it did make life easier. But I felt guilty for ages for not trying harder - having said that I don't feel that way any more and have a very happy healthy 19 month old, how long I BF for doesn't seem improtant any more in the great scheme of things.

My other (rambling) point would be that lack of sleep can be a huge problem once you start getting to the stage of exhaustion when it affects your mood & judgement. In my case I think it a was a major contrubuter to PND.

Do what is going to be best for you and your health as well as the baby.

Neilsmum,

I hope you are doing o.k.

In addition to co-sleeping, which I couldn't do because everyone slept but me, you might want to put him in a favorite spot. My ds slept in his car seat/carrier for a few weeks. I don't know why, but he loved to be in there. I think he liked how close and snug he felt. He later was able to sleep in a cradle and finally his crib. Tik tok is correct that your baby just wants to be close to you, but if for some reason you find it difficult to sleep in the bed with him try putting him somewhere he might feel more secure.

Good luck.

I found the subsequent children much easier. I suspect you get more experienced and also the habits and routines of fixed bed times, toddlers going to sleep and the necessity for the routine made it work better.

10 weeks is very little but if possible you need to get him used to going to sleep without sucking. I used to put the twins to bed at 7 awake after their feed and then leave them, have a shower so I couldn't hear the screams and usually they'd then sleep particularly as they got older until I fed at mid night when I went to bed.

The 10 week old does not need to feed every hour and many babies manage without the comfort in this nasty society where we cast them from us and deny them the warmth of our bodies 24/7 for cultural reasons. So one possibility is you feed at say 2 and then you don't get up to feed until about say 4am and if he's awake between 2 and 4am then get your partner to go in and try to settle him however long that takes so that you get the sleep. 2 of my sons found their thumbs and got back to sleep that way sucking a thumb.

Or hire a sleep expert who will probably be able to solve the problem for you without giving up the BF.

mump - the bottle of water idea is sometimes suggested, but why would this be easier and less 'wakeful' than simply bf? The water has to be boiled and cooled, the bottle and teat have to be cleaned and prepared....I don't get it! I don;t believe a 10 week old would be 'trained' out of waking and needing mum in this way....what do you think?

Neilsmum,

Enjoy this time now that you have. Soon you're baby will be too active and curious to want to just fall asleep with you. I know that you're going through the worst time now, but in a few months you will look at this time and wish for the little baby that needed you so much.

Hi there,just wanted to say that you are doing well.You are ten weeks in and I think that this is one of the hardest points.The novelty of having a new baby is wearing off and the hard slog of sleep deprivation is beginning to take its toll.Additionally baby has probably been having a bit of a spurt and they seem to feed endlessly.

At the end of the day you need to find something that suits you .As tiktok says with the bottles you will still have to wake to go get the bottle and go through all the sterilisation malarkey.However if you find that this suits you or that dh can do a feed and take the pressure off then go with it.At the end of the day better a happy mum with a bottle fed baby than a sad one who is in bits feeling pressurised to breastfeed.Or how about contacting your hv about how you are feeling?They may have some suggestions.

Have you considered co-sleeping?With both mine I co slept in the early weeks as you can quite easily pop baby onto the boob whilst semi asleep!!If you are anxious about co sleeping I have read threads on here about cots that attach to side of bed so baby is still near you(sorry but dont know where you get them but Im sure someone would help if you started a thread) or a dummy if baby will take one,if you feel that the sucking is more comfort than food related.

If it is any consolation I had several huge rows with dp after the birth of both of mine!!Having a new baby is such a lifechanger.I think it is often harder if you have a high powered job too.You are used to being in control of your life and having a dynamic fast paced career.When a baby arrives it is the total opposite,you are controlled by this little screaming bundle,there is no routine in those early weeks,you cannot justify how you have spent your time to your other half."Oh,I changed several nappies and sicky clothes,I managed to grab a shower,I even managed to get out for a walk" all seems so trivial!Funnily enough my boss who is a charge nurse had an awful time with her new babe,feeling just like this an she is the most together well organised person I know.I will say to you though it DOESNT last forever and soon your little one will settle into going longer between feeds,they will begin to establish a routine and your life will become much easier.

Keep posting on here for support.I had a terrible time with baby no 2 and at your stage I felt like giving up bf but did persevere and am glad I did (Dont feel that you HAVE to though if you really cant face it).No one tells you how DIFFICULT those early weeks are when you become a mum,its like nothing else on earth,but once you get over those first few months it does become easier in some ways and you adjust and even begin to enjoy it!!!Look after yourself and go easy on yourself,you have only recently given birth,it will get better!

I'm just here to second the view of getting the sleep sorted, get yourself a good lie in and only allow yourself to be wakened to feed, (do that in bed) and then continue to sleep. Book this for asap, with your dh or perhaps a parent or sibling. Without sleep, nothing will work. Good luck, it really is a wonderful time when you can enjoy it.

You don't have to 'switch' to formula, you can combine breast and bottle in whatever proportions you want. I am on my second baby and yet again most of the new mums I meet are combining breast and bottle so that baby gets the health benefits and mum gets to keep her sanity (and get some beauty sleep!). I mostly breastfed two large hungry boys. With the first one I had weeks and weeks of struggle and no sleep and a screaming hungry baby. Then one day I got really annoyed at a 'breastfeeding counsellor' and asked her under what other circumstances would a member of the health profession tell me that I should keep a member (and a little helpless one at that) of my own family permenantly hungry and tired? So after that I gave small formula feeds if he still appeared hungry after being on both breasts. Am doing the same with No 2 and its working fine. Since 6 weeks I give 3 oz formula after his last feed, he will keep sucking if I keep tickling his feet! Don't feel guilty about a bit of formula to save your sanity. Don't get depressed, you are doing brilliantly to still be breastfeeding at 10 weeks on no sleep.

Just wanted to add that I went through the exact same thing.
Ds was up every hour through the night feeding and I was at the end of my tether. I felt so totally exhausted and wanted to give up and run away.
In the end I reached breaking point and my dp had to take a couple of days off work and looked after our ds during the day just bringing him to me for feeds. He was feeding every 2 hours during the day. I felt better having some sleep and time away from ds
It gave me the strength to carry on, ds (now 13 wks) feeds every 2-3 hours during the day and it still varies at night. Sometimes he still wakes every 2 hours, the next week it will be 3-4 hours and last night he slept 10pm until 6.30am!!
I think you may regret giving up the b/f because as others have said this isn't a feeding problem its a sleep problem, having said that if you do ff don't beat yourself up about it. A happy, rested and alert mummy is just as important to your childs development.

Slept for 4 hours at a stretch last night while dh gave the 11.00 pm feed and I fed him at 2.Feel more human.Feel so grateful for all thesupport I receive on this site.Dont know if I could have coped otherwise.
Samefeeding pattern lats night.Hehas lost interest in his 7.00 am feedandall his naps have gone haywire.
He weighs 12 lb,4 oz.Tried co sleeping but once or twice would have rolled over and killed him had dh not woken up in the nick of time.So gave that up.
What are your thoughts on feeding only EBM thru the bottle.Thta way He will get br.Milkand I know exactly how much he has taken.

Hi, I gave EMB for the first week... and I did find it brilliant. but I only had to express 40mls+ a time. When its started getting to 3 or 4oz, I spent alot of time expressing and it was great just to have DS feeding. Saying that, it is better than formula, so if its right for you, go for it! You might need to invest in an electric pump (double?) My DS doesnt get nipple confusion so it is great to express and have a sleep, or you could mainly express and give some feeds on breast? The new tommie tippie breast/bottles I find are good because they have very flexy teats, and has a big area where the milk sits which feels warm, like a breast. Good luck with whatever you decide

p.s, have you thought about a bedside cot for the sleeping?

I went through the same thing and was giving FF in the night as DD2 was falling asleep as soon as she latched on. She wouldn't wake up so had to lay her down again only to wake after 20 mins for another feed-this went on all night. Was considering giving up BF but then it suddenly improved. I used to heat up the bottle in the night as usual then because I was so full of milk I tried putting her on to drain some and she started staying awake so took more milk. So now at 16 weeks I BF all the time (apart from the odd bottle when I go out as not brave enough to BF in this cafe mum and I go to once a week). She feeds for approx 20 mins in the night and goes back to sleep. She has started waking up twice in the night so baby rice is on the cards for her. I really do feel for you but it does get better-and I couldn't have done it without the support of the wonderful ladies on my Postnatal thread and all the other lovely Mumsnetters. Are you part of a Postnatal group on here?

Hugs to you

((xx))

Expressing is a huge hassle. I did it when I went back to work. I would try and avoid it as much as you can. I do think that doing what you did the last few nights is better.

A better result would be to get a pattern where you feed at mid night and he wakes at 6 but he's only 10 weeks so that's not likely. What about if you fed then and then you never got up before say 4am but if he woke before that your other half tried to settle him. It's this business of learning to settle without suckingon a breast that's so hard and the key to sleep I think. It's not that much to do with getting milk down into them either. In a sense you don't want him only to be able to sleep when he's sucking at a bottle either.

I think as they get older it gets easier but you need to avoid patterns which mean you're never going to get sleep. My sister slept with hers until they were 5 and she has had disturbed nights for 5 years and often been shattered. I could never fall asleep easily with a baby next to me so I didn't often do it.

Having a different person to feed or comfort once a day can break the cycle of the baby whenever it wakes wanting the breast (which is the nicest bit of its life I suspect).

DH and I have reached an agreement.I will BF through the day and express milk if possible.He will cook dinner and allow me to go to bed at 9.00 pm.He will give the 11.00 pm feed (either ebm or formula).He will then wake me up at say 2.00ish when Ds wakes up.He will then sleep and I will take over.tHis way I shall be able to sleep for at least one part of the night.
Agree EBM all the time is a hassle.
Will continue to do this till the magic time of 12weeks.If doesnt work will switch to formula.
How does this sound?
DS has been napping for the last 30 minutes.Hurray!
Thank you all so much for make this bearable .
Will keep you posted on how I get on.

Neilsmum - got to say that is a great plan. My best bud did this and it worked brilliantly for her. remember to stay as calm as you can (easier said than done I know). Just think that while you are bf you always have the option there to ff. If you just decide to ff then you don't really have the reverse option. I ff myself so I am in no way condemning it - I just think it helps to keep you calm and focused knowing that you do have the safety net of ff if you decide to do this. Good luck with whatever happens you certainly have my full support and the support of MN whenever you need it.

Neilsmum,

I think you have a good plan. It's great that your dh is being so supportive of you.