breast feeding and smoking!

[Evita]

Dp's friend and his wife have just had a little boy who's now 4 weeks old. I don't know them very well and don't want to preach or anything like that. But the thing is, the wife smokes about 10 cigarettes a day and is breastfeeding. I've been trying to find out some information about what the risks are about it so that in some way I could perhaps hint to them that it's not a good idea but I can't find anything conclusive. There's loads on drinking alcohol but nothing on smoking. She says that the benefits of breastfeeding outweigh the risks of her smoking but I'm not so sure. Does anyone know anything about this subject?

there was huge debate about this recently elsewhere, it seems that b/f and smoking is still better for baby on balance than bottlefeeding, as the mothers body blocks a large percentage of the more lethal toxins. Also mentioned was that it would be impossible to smoke enough cigs for b/f to become contra indicated in 24 hours time slot.
but this does not include smoking in or around baby esp WHILE b/f!
this is based on if you smoke 10-20 a day, keeping smoke well away from your baby, and smoking outside the house...

I am vehement anti smoker by the way
ex somker 11 yrs clean LOL

thing is evita that whilst, yes, i'm sure it is not good at all for the baby, its easy to get too worked up about things like this imo...in the 50s and 60s loads of mums smoked whilst preg and bfding...not saying is a good thing but she seems to be making a choice if she says that benefits outweigh risks and i think you have to respect that. i think that risks are different depending on whether she smokes with the baby (worse) or if she is smoking away from her baby but there are traces of nicotine etc in her breastmilk. i think that treating a baby without love and kindness is far far more serious than something like this...and there are loads of examples of that in the world. understand your concern, but be careful about hinting...it may be taken v v badly indeed...

kiwi i too am ex smoker and hate it when people smoke around ds now...

I have also read similar stuff to kiwisbird. But also have to agree with her last two lines. I did a thread recently on how my baby stank after being held for a couple of seconds by dh's bloody cousin. I had to change her clothes. God knows what it must be like for a baby to be around someone who does this regulary.

My mum smoked throughout her pregnancies and didnt bf. This was when the dangers werent known and then continued until ds was born. She went cold turkey after more than 30 years smoking as really didnt want to be carrying her gs after having a fag.

I wouldnt bother with any hints, i dont suppose it will stop her smoking.
The info is out there for all to read, it's whether she wishes to act on it or not.

I don't think the issue is whether smoking and breastfeeding are compatible. It's more a question of whether smoking and babies are compatible and the emphatic answer has to be NO. I think there is fairly reliable research to show that babies who are regularly around smokers are more prone to cot-death, apart from anything else. Maybe you could use that to persuade her to stop.

I found this amongst many others on Pubmed; you could suggest that she might want to consider an iodine supplement:

Iodine nutrition in breast-fed infants is impaired by maternal smoking.

Laurberg P, Nohr SB, Pedersen KM, Fuglsang E.

Department of Endocrinology and Medicine, Aalborg Hospital, DK-9000 Aalborg, Denmark. [email protected]

Lack of iodine for thyroid hormone formation during the fetal stage and/or the first years of life may lead to developmental brain damage. During the period of breastfeeding, thyroid function of the infant depends on iodine in maternal milk. We studied healthy, pregnant women admitted for delivery and their newborn infants. Cotinine in urine and serum was used to classify mothers as smokers (n = 50) or nonsmokers (n = 90). Smoking and nonsmoking mothers had identical urinary iodine on d 5 after delivery, but smoking was associated with reduced iodine content in breast milk (smokers 26.0 micro g/liter vs. nonsmokers 53.8 micro g/liter; geometric mean, P < 0.001) and in the infants' urine (smokers 33.3 micro g/liter, vs. nonsmokers 50.4 micro g/liter, P = 0.005). Results were consistent in multivariate linear models and by logistic regression analysis. The odds ratio for smoking vs. nonsmoking mothers to have lower breast milk than urinary iodine content was 8.4 (95% confidence interval, 3.5-20.1). In smokers, iodine transfer into breast milk correlated negatively to urinary cotinine concentration. Smoking mothers had significantly higher serum levels of thiocyanate, which may competitively inhibit the sodium-iodide symporter responsible for iodide transport in the lactating mammary gland. Smoking during the period of breastfeeding increases the risk of iodine deficiency-induced brain damage in the child. Women who breastfeed should not smoke, but if they do, an extra iodine supplement should be considered.

Evita, tbh if she wants advice she'll ask for it (maybe she has, sorry if I've misunderstood) and unless she really wants to give up there's nothing much anyone can do to make her. I think saying something will only alienate her and bear in mind she's probably full of self loathing because of her habit anyway - no-one really wants to be a smoker. I speak as an ex smoker too. People nagging rarely makes any difference - it's a hellishly addictive drug.

I agree with www, yes it is terrible, but i'm afraid to say your not responsible in her eyes and you will fall out with her

A great midwife I know smoked throughout her pregnancy and is still breastfeeding her 3 year old son. Evita, she will that it is best not to smoke but obviously finds she can't/won't. She is right that B/F and smoking is better than no B/F at all. I would stay well clear TBH.

I really struggled with giving up smoking while p/g and breastfeeding and have to say if anyone had tried to lecture me I would have told them to F off and mind their own business. Or dissolved in tears. If there's one thing that's bad for new mums it's unhelpful 'advice' of this nature. Like smokers don't know it's bad for them and for babies! That's why I went out into the garden, if it's any business of anyone else.
Why are you so keen to advise them? They aren't close family, or close to you ? you refer to them as Dp's friends. I really do think you should leave this one alone or you'll come across as an interfering busybody and may well lose Dp his friend.

Just to state the obvious eddm, it's because of the babies health not because evita is being nosey or interfering. If someone was harming their child surely it would be wrong to do nothing although I do think as far as smoking goes there are no laws against what her friend is doing so nothing evita could say would make a difference anyway. Her friend i am sure is well aware of what she is doing and has made her decision, it's a shame that decision affects someone else ie the baby.

We could all get holier than thou about some issues but I think anyone saying to a new mum 'I'm concerned about your baby's health' because of something you consider the mum is doing wrong is asking for a sharp reply. Most smokers have tried to give up and feel pretty guilty about it. That isn't helped by anyone else having a go.
Reasonable debate on MN is one thing, insisting you know better than the parents what's best for someone else's baby ('she says the benefits of b/f outweight the risks of smoking but I'm not so sure' is unlikely to be constructive.

i have to agree eddm...see my earlier post...i think knowing how emotive parenting is, and that undoubtedly this mother will be aware that smoking isn't ideal, is v v unwise to say something...i'm afraid the advice will be taken as condemnation, which in a way, i guess it is...

I agree with you both and think she should def breastfeed. It is a shame she is smoking regardless of how she chooses to feed and you are right any comments would be comdemnation which they would be because I couldnt condone it but then i wouldnt say anything because it would be comdemming not to mention pointless and adding to guiltt.

Hi Evita, I understand your concern but I agree with others, there isn't anything you can say or do that will make a constructive, helpful difference, it will probably just upset this mum and make her feel even worse about herself than she does, I am sure
Its right that bf and smoking is better than not bf at all. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere recently that it takes about 1.5 hours after a cigarette for the chemicals not to be in bm, or to be at a reduced level - or something like that! God, am hopeless! Can't remember the detail but it definately said something about waiting for an hour and a half after smoking, would be better!

On other hand a woman I know and her DP smoked all through her preg and beyond, in the bedroom and living room, windows shut... awful awful awful, baby boy was born early, light and ill, he had 6 doses of bronchitis and ventilator supported illness in hosp before he was 5 mths old, his mum would bang on about how ill he always was and I had to one day say, well I think if you stopped smoking in the house it would help don't you?
Amazing not one consultant, HV, GP, midwife had ever mentioed this to her
She stopped smoking striaght away and amde her DP smoke outside, he has now cut down a ot
baby boy got healthier
I am glad I said something...
But she didn;t b/f either as DP wasn't keen on it...
I've met him, he's what I would call a twizzell

Blimey, I feel slightly under attack here! I did say in my post that I 'don't want to preach' and wondered generally if it was any of my business. I wouldn't dream of interfering and certainly not being a 'busy body', and as I said this isn't even someone I know well. I really just wondered if anyone knew if it was v. harmful for a baby to be fed by a smoking mother (as I haven't come across this before) and if it was how could I tell this mom in the best way. But thanks to v. helpful advice from kiwisbird and tamum I've had that question answered.

eddm, you're very harsh and presumptious here. Of course I wouldn't 'have a go' at her. I'm totally understanding about the addictive side of smoking, I was a 30 a day puffer until I was almost 30 and remember how hard giving up was.

oh God evita, so sorry, didn't mean to make you feel under attack AT ALL, your first post shows clearly that you are concerned about the baby and not being an interfering old bat! I - and probably others - just thought there wasn't much you could say that would help, without her thinking you were being a cow - does that make sense (or did I just make it worse!?)
Really sorry if you feel attacked, I don't think anyone meant that

No attacking evita. i'd have posted the same message if I were you.

Thanks. I don't feel mortified or anything drastic I was just surprised that the question I asked got turned into more of a 'to interfere or not to interfere' debate. I was really just interested in finding out about the potential risks. Because if there were serious risks then I would say something, just as anyone would if they knew a child was being mistreated in any other way.

Actually, looking back over the thread I've realised I over-reacted, it was only eddm's comment that feels like a bit of an attack. So apologies from me!

I know someone who gave up bfing so she could smoke again. I found that far sadder. At least your friend has got her facts right, and may even bf for longer so that she can keep smoking!