breastfeeding on demand, v demanding baby!

[2labs]

Not sure when or how we ended up like this but I am bfing my ds (5 wks old) what seems like all the time. He has been astonishingly grumpy/colicky since the age of about 2.5 wks old and because every other mum who saw him crying said 'he's hungry' - rooting etc, I've been feeding him every time I've seen him do the classic rooting stuff and crying. He's now on the breast for sometimes an hour at a time, sometimes more, and often starts again 15-20 minutes after finishing that. When he goes back on shortly after an hour-long feed he does do the proper sucking/swallowing for 5 mins or so, then what looks like comfort suckling, then he sort of wakes up a bit and does a bit more proper sucking... This is all day now, except when he is having a nap, whereas before he used to do it just in the evenings (cluster feeding?). He does do really well at night with the help of an EBM bottle before bedtime, and is sleeping from 9.30-2.30, feeds, then 3.30-6ish. He's also putting on weight.

His latch has never been that great so I'm wondering whether he's finding it increasingly hard to get all the milk he wants (a bf counsellor told me that babies have to work harder after the early days to get at it?). We started off feeding about every 2 hours or so but it's degenerated to this gradually. Any advice?

2labs
have u a la leche rep in your area? they would be very helpful
your bf counsellor deosnt sound right baout the work harder bit
does he wind, even bf babies need too.
how old is he now
if u taake him off thebreast does he cry for more milk or settle and look for more 20mins later sort of thing

i see now he is 5wks

mears / tiktok and pupuce are the experts for this inital stage, hopefully they ll see the thread

Doesn't sound beyond the realms of normality ( whatever normal is!) but have you thought about contacting a bf organisation again to chat it through?
ALso is there a bf cafe in your area?
Great that he's putting on weight though, you are obviously getting it right in the most important way

try other things before feeding him - maybe he is windy, or tired - when you have excluded other possibilities then try feeding him again.

Hopefully soon you will learn the very subtle signs that tell you what he wants. It is a bit of a steep learning curve, and they are all subtly different so you just have to learn your own.

Listen to other people's suggestions, try them - if they work - fine, if not try something else - til you work out what it right for your combination.

thanks hermykne, I wind him when I swap him over to the other breast when he seems to have 'finished' the first. Not always sure when that is as he v rarely comes off on his own, just suckles lightly or drowses with it still in an iron grip in his mouth!

When I finally take him off he usually settles for a bit then wants it 20 mins later.

He does seem to suffer with wind, and often cries hard when he poos and leading up to it. We got really worried about this and actually ended up seeing a paediatrician yesterday, but she said that as he is pooing lots and it's always liquid, she couldn't find anything wrong. She checked him over thoroughly and just pronounced him 'grumpy without cause' .

This is the worst period. When DS was 5-7 weeks he fed ALL THE TIME (just the way you are describing) and I was in tears. I'd have given him formula just for a break if he'd have taken it but fortunately (in retrospect) he wouldn't.

He's not doing anything wrong and neither are you (from the sound of things), this is entirely normal. By the time DS was 8-10 weeks old it was so much easier, and by the time he was three months we were both seasoned pros. But I can still remember sitting on the sofa and sobbing because he wouldn't give me a break.

Tiktok, mears, etc., should be able to give you more specific advice about what to do and not to do. But I just wanted to tell you that I've been there and you have my DEEPEST sympathy. You are doing a fantastic job!

BTW, DS is 19.5 months now and we're still bf.

bluejelly - planning on going to a bf cafe on Weds so hopefully they will have some ideas.

throckenholt - I don't have the hang of his signs... I tend to assume that hands in his mouth, rooting through my clothes etc means hunger, but maybe he just thinks of me as a pair of breasts so always asks whenever I hold him?! Mind you he does it to other people as well (was desperately trying to find dh's nipple yesterday...). I will try other things first. I used to do that more often, but as he is so grumpy about everything, nursing seems to be the only thing that usually consoles him.

thanks lemonaid - always helps to know someone else has been there too!

I cannot really offer any advice beyond saying, as others have,it gets easier, I promise (but i did not believe anyone who told me that either!) stick at it and somehow it all will just fall into place. In the meantime, enjoy the chance to sit on the sofa feeding, forget the housework and get some DVDs in (what I did, made feeding far less stressful!)

I think part of what helped was that when he was 7-8 weeks DH had to be away for a bit so I went to stay with my parents for a week. It meant there were more other people around to hold DS and distract him for a bit, and it was over the course of that week that his feeds started to space out again. It's much more difficult IME if it's you and him at home all day with no one else and he can smell your milk every time you go near him.

funnily enough lemonaid my dh is going to be away for a few days a couple of times at the end of Sept and I'm spending that time with my parents so hopefully the same thing will happen!

Hi there

This sounds EXACTLY like my ds who is just over 6 weeks old. He has been feeding every 90 mins, very grumpy, windy and lots of liquid poo.

Have you ever considered he is using you as a human dummy? I automatically assumed that all this rooting around meant he needed a feed BUT IT DOESN"T ALWAYS. The fact that he is distracted by people carrying him implies he may just be bored, need comfort etc.

I know it's not very well thought of but I have resorted to using a dummy when I think he wants to suck and I am trying to space out his feeds. I am working on it right now and he has managed to reach 2.5 hrs several times today so am pleased. My LO tends to root for many reasons - need to suck, tiredness, wind and of course hunger.

I have been feeling very down about the demanding nature of the whole thing but now I realise that demand feeding is not offering him tit at any occasion but feeding him whenever he is hungry - there is quite a difference!!

Good luck and will keep you updated of my LO's progress...but i realise you can take one step forward and 2 steps back so must be prepared!

me too! My DS is 6 weeks old and seems to be a really 'sucky' baby, he pretty much came out sucking his thumb. Trouble is when I'm in the house all day by myself and feeds seem to get closer and closer together. It's better if I have friends around (espesh if they have children) or get out to see other people. Yesterday at a NCT picnic he gurgled happily on the rug for nearly an hour whilst I chatted (your voice is very reassuring). Just keep telling myself that it will get better, and when I relax, he relaxes and really is a lovely good natured chap. I also bought a dummy today, just in case.

Would also agree with amijee about 'demand feeding' and confusion around it. My interpretation would be rooting means feed me when other discomforts have been removed (after first 2 weeks to establish supply).

hmm, I'll try and get out and be more sociable! I must admit I've slightly avoided being with people because he cries so much... Although dh and I did take him round to our closest friends for dinner the other night and despite the company and my friends' holding him etc he screamed the place down within minutes of coming off the breast every time . I ended up with dh feeding me my dinner while I fed ds at the table! Could just be that evenings are worse though...

Would also recommend a bf support group if you can find one - I go to one at my local health centre. It's just an hour in a room with other mums, but somehow when they're crying in a room with other babies (who are also crying too sometimes) it feels more bearable

Oh boy -- the memories are flooding back! I remember at the postnatal group I went to all the other babies would sleep for half the session or lie down happily on the floor and gurgle. DS was the only one who would cry or fuss nearly the whole time. And at a NCT reunion one of the other mothers told me that she let her DS cry when she put him down for a nap "even if he cried for as long as 20 minutes" and I thought "we are living in two totally different realities... even if I wanted to try that, my DS would only just be getting warmed up at that stage." Really, I could have written your posts 18 months ago.

It's early days yet, but if you get to 2-3 months old and he's still that way I recommend The Fussy Baby Book. Helped me to feel that I wasn't alone!

my dh has feed me dinnner too whilst breastfeeding both of ours !
2labs probably a wee growth spurt as well, as the other says, and the mixing with other groups would be great for him to hear other nosies as maewest says.
dont be afraid if it gets too much to put him off the breast if you are feeling wrecked.

with my ds i did that as he was a great feeder but dd proved her weight in gold to distract wihile i got a bit of relief.

and i feed my ds every 2 hr probably til 10wks or so, it did strectch out at certain times of the day

What was the birth like?

2labs, sorry I haven't time for a long post, but I just wanted to say that my ds was very similar at that age and now I wish I hadn't stressed about it! Wish I'd just enjoyed all that time sitting on the sofa reading and watching telly. But I know it's not like that when it's happening to you If you have ruled out any latch problems and he is putting on weight then it sounds like he just loves bf and takes lots of comfort from it.

One book that really helped me in the early days was "When Your Baby Cries" by Deborah Jackson. Really recommend it.

Sorry , have not had the tiem to read all the replys, so, this might have been said already!
I assume you use the standard bf position, but is your lil one tummy to tummy...I see it so often when I go out that baby's are turned away from the boob and sort of lay on their back with their head turned to the boob, which makes swallawing really hard.
Also, have you tried the Rugby hold...the Baby's tend to find it easier to get to the hindmilk!

terramum - birth was quick for a first one, 5 hours from first contraction to hello ds. I actually felt the birth was ok, it was the aftermath I found traumatic - ds wouldn't feed and lost 15% of his weight very quickly, so we stayed in hospital on a ff/bf schedule until it started to work. I think a lot of my anxieties about feeding him stem from that now I come to think about it. All the other mums in my NCT group had difficult births but now seem to have angel lo's!

3andnomore - I've tried the rugby hold occasionally but have struggled to keep ds in position. Will try it again and find ways to support his body so it doesn't kill my arms/back.

thanks for all the book recommendations; I'll look into those.

MN is great - I always feel better after getting some wise words on here!

2 labs...I found laying my iil one on 2 or even 3 pillows for the rugbyhold worked a trear!
Or sitting crosslegged and one pillow should probably give you the right height!

ooops treat not trear, lol