Bottle feeding = 120 Mars bars by 8 months

[MrsDoolittle]

OOoer

yeah just read the article and realised that. Surely there's a massive variation in the amount of calories per breastmilk feed. Would love to see how this was estimated. presume it also assumes the babies finished every bottle they started- which in my experience isn't remotely true. As others have repeatedly said if you overfeed a baby they're sick as soon as you sit them up. And if every bottle fed baby was really getting this many extra calories then surely every bottle fed baby would be roly poly, looking around me I can see that that's not true.

Still think that some breastfeeders have some very odd ideas about how bottle feeders actually feed. I didn't go into a panic if ds3 didn't finish a feed and I'm not sure I know anyone who did. I didn't force him to finish his bottles, and haven't come across anyone else who did.

how does it relate to 10lbs in weight? surely that very much depends on metabolism etc?

I was like that with ds1 Ladida flooded everywhere, poor child was choking on it (in fact used to express a bit before feeding sometimes so as not to drown him). Which makes it rather remarkable that it was lack of supply that forced me to give a breastfeeding ds3 very early on. I think ds1 had his share.

Much as the amount of milk that a child needs - whether breast or bottle will vary from child to child harpsi. (assuming appetite matches need for calories) which is what makes this whole article so ridiculous.

I don't actually understand the point of this article. Is it saying that bottlefeeders are so universally out of tune with their infant's needs that they routinely overfeed them. Or is it saying that every mother attempts to overfeed their child, but breastfeeders can't because the baby has to "work at it" (sometimes ime).

actually, someone earlier on this thread (tiktok?) said that the write of the article did bottlefeed, so presumably she is writing at least partly from her own experience and isn't a breastfeeder with some odd ideas.
Also, the article doesn't only refer to the finishing bottles as the only issue. She also refers to what she calls the "passive" nature of bottlefeeding and the fact that babies have to work less hard to get milk out of bottle. I have certainly noticed the latter - it is simple common sense.
And it is alo recognised that formula is higher in calories, hence the advice to feed an "underweight" baby with a top up of formula. Also, there is a tendency (statistically) for breastfed babies to put on less weight, obviously due to a variey of factors, hence the recent discussions about fully breastfed babies being designated as "underweight" because their weights are compared against average weights for bf/ff/mixed fed babies. (tiktok/mears can and have explained this much better than me.)
I will say again, though - all this is so much speculation without a proper referencing system in the original article.

Onlt have the leaking problem if ds has gone more than 4-5 hour without a feed, normaly at night.
Someone said earlier about bf been a class thing, i feel that maybe the age of the mother also plays a part, and again i am talking about people who ff by choice. A lack of understanding to the benefits of bf to both mother and baby, feeling there is no real difference.

"Is it saying that bottlefeeders are so universally out of tune with their infant's needs that they routinely overfeed them. Or is it saying that every mother attempts to overfeed their child, but breastfeeders can't because the baby has to "work at it" (sometimes ime).
Well it certainly doesn't say "universally out of tune" or "routinely overfeed" or anything so inflammatory.
I think it is a half baked article with some interesting half ideas, which need some proper research to make them stick.
it mentions the nature of bottle feeding in a numbe rof factors that might cause problems.
it also mentions something which is my particular bug bear and which no one has mentioned - this horrible tendency for parents to insist that children "clear their plates" and "eat up or you won't get pudding." which I think is madness.

by the way, I think suggesting that "breastfeeders" have some odd ideas about what "bottlefeeders" do is a bit innaccurate and "us and them". The world isn't actually dividedup like that.
I would say that the vast majority of people who breast feed will have given bottles at some point. so will have had experience of both and the differences between the two.

if anyone sees me on a breastfeeding/bottelfeeding threasd again for gods sake tell me to get off. I'd just posted my last post when dh popped his head round the door "where's ds1?" he had the other2 I was meant to be responsible for ds1. Rapid run to the garden, no sign, we evenetuially found him stealing tooth[paste happily in the bathroom

The fear that he had gone over the (certain death) back fence is still with me now- I am still shaking, -I don't even care how anyone else feeds their baby, or what anyone else thinks of how I fed mine.

I am banning myself from these threads- do me a facvour and tell me to check on ds1 if anyone sees me on one. At least until we get a bloody new back door!

Message withdrawn

I will be the first to admit thet i have given ebm and fumula a couple of times, but this was before i was happy to bf around people, now i dont care, if you dont like, dont look.

Whats over the fence?

Metabolism isn't variable enough to account for an average 30,000 cals extra surely? Unless all ff babies have significantly faster metabolic rates than bf babies which can't possibly be true.

I think that without reference to where this information came from we just can't make a judgement about its validity and in turn debate about it becomes pointless which is a shame really.

New to mumsnet, with a 7 week old DD1. First posting - couldn't resist this thread. After a 4 day labour, cracked nipples, witchy midwives and a 15% loss of bodyweight in the first week (hers, not mine, unfortunately) I struggled through 6 weeks of mixed feeding and then turned to fully FF. I now have a thriving, happy baby but the entire world sometimes seems designed to make you feel guilty. FFS this journalist should try feeding my princess more F than she wants!! It's impossible!! The pursed lips, the squirming! Remember anyone out there struggling with BF for whatever reason, that guilt is a wasted emotion. You have a lifetime of parental guilt ahead of you (it starts with pregnancy - "you're not DRINKING are you?") and ends, well, when you die. Just enjoy your babies and they will grow up happy.

this is my point about more help for people that want to bf, did you see a bfc, or just a mw and hv?, most of which have no idea about bf.

Well said, torimum. Welcome to mumsnet!!

Agree its a wasted debate and the info is meaningless. Lets all go have a mars bar.......

Thanks for the replies - feel very excited to be participating! Just for the record, I saw midwives (conflicting advice and desperately insensitive), an independent breastfeeding counsellor (very good) and health visitors (fine). In the end, when a paediatrician tells you that your baby needs formula, you obey. You are so desperate for the baby to thrive that weight gain becomes paramount, not the method. Ho hum. The next one will be entirely BF.

Agree harps - had given formula to DD from 6 months, and, regularly DS gets bottles, its ebm, but its bottles all the same. I just dont talk about it - never needed to.

I dont think it fair to suggest that "some" b/feeders dont have a clue about what "bottlefeeders" do. If you look at it in that way, its probably more accurate to suggest that perhaps, breastfeeders are more likely to be more objective, having done both (without needing to)?

oh fgs. i saw hundreds of people, and that was part of the problem. unless you can afford a live-in midwife you get what you get. and in my case that was about oh... 15 midwives in the space of my hospital stay, another 8 or 9 at home, two health visitors, two breastfeeding specialists, 6 paediatricians and all the nurses that surrounded them, one specialist care nurse (my baby was going to be taken in and of course this woman had struggled and managed to breastfeed and so she had an opinion too.)

i had my mum, my aunties, my mum's friend who did her dissertation on breastfeeding around the globe, i had my friends all of whom had succeeded in breastfeeding and my one poor pal who was having a terrible time of it with her breast-refusing son and was suffering the same fate. i was pushed, prodded, bruised, grabbed, medicated, drank guinness, fennel, other stuff i can't even remember, i was yield tested, i watched videos, i downloaded film clips, i was lectured, harrumphed at, i was people's 'pet project' who were DETERMINED to help me... i also had no milk.

opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one, and if you are dealing with the NHS you just don't get this glorious one-on-one care that everyone seems to think should be out there. you don't get it if you're having a heart attack either. it doesn't exist and it likely never will. i'd love it if everyone could stop dreaming about this...

we don't pay the same taxes as they do in scandinavia, we don't have the same record on public services, the same voting system, nothing. british people don't like paying tax, so we will never get the health care, roads, education because we don't place a premium on these things. until we need them, of course, and then we bloody do, but it's too late.

also, just to return to an earlier post which irritated the hell out of me... milk does not piss out of bottles in vast streams. it just doesn't. it's easier than breastfeeding (for the baby), yes, but it doesn't pour into their mouths. so, when they don't want to eat any more they stop, shut their mouths, do what you would do if you don't want to eat. formula fed babies aren't another species, fgs. (now, where this is relevant to calorific intake is that they might be full up of liquid but may nevertheless have taken in more calories than with breastmilk thanks to the unchanging nature of the formula. this is undoubtedly a problem.)

so torimum, bless her newbie socks, is completely right. she's seen through all this bullshit and declared the emperor naked. the fact is that when the paediatrician tells you that you need to give your baby formula or you'll start damaging her kidneys, you do what he says. had it been another paed you'd seen they might have told you different and you'd be breastfeeding this very minute.

some people feel guilty (i don't) some people feel sad (i definitely do) but all i am saying is that someone who succeeded at breastfeeding should feel luckier than me, not intrinsically better than me. AND THAT, as i have said on numerous occasions, should arm them more with compassion than condescension.

and if anyone ever sees me on one of these threads again, please arrange to have me shot. do it quietly and quickly, and make it through the head.

Sorry - but pmsl at "opinions are like arseholes....."

({grin})

sounds like you had a bad time, it is nice to hear that you would like to be able to do it next time and this has not put you off, when bf is right its great and so easy. What was the problem this time?
I was lucky, i had no cracked nipples, or any problems like that, the only thing for me was how long it took for my milk to come in, so felt like i was feeding all the time.

aitch I love you. I just want to say that- I love you

over the fence littlepiggie is a 2 storey drop and certain death.

(2nd one was for JimJams....)