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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Bottle feeding = 120 Mars bars by 8 months

257 replies

MrsDoolittle · 25/08/2006 20:46

OOoer

OP posts:
harpsichordcarrier · 27/08/2006 22:54

sorry 1baby1bump am probably feeling extra sensitive and bruised today after another thread where breastfeeders got called a lot of very unpleasant names.
I am just being paranoid and I apologise.
anyway, we aren't all bashing the bottle on here...
honest

1Baby1Bump · 27/08/2006 22:59

i was a tad shocked harpsi! i thought we'd got on before in the few times weve crossed paths!
i thought i was being funny with my conga thing.... ~sticks bottom lip out~

i havent seen the other thread, i tend to stay away if i can from these ones as i didnt have a choice and feel 'robbed'. though i will add i dont hate bf'ers!

i just read the marsbar bit in the title and thought:

'marsbars, like the worst choc bar on the planet'

harpsichordcarrier · 27/08/2006 23:03

I am hugely embarrassed and very very sorry
I thought you were having a go... but obviously you weren't

you just got caught in the cross fire there a bit.
I should probably stay off those threads for a bit too. It is affecting how I feel about my work when I see things on here being derogatory about bfeeders and their motivations. which is sad because I love my work and Ireally believe in it, and I shouldn't let those kind of things get to me I know.
actually I quite like mars bars

1Baby1Bump · 27/08/2006 23:05

what work do you do?

i learn stuff about people then get it all mixed up and forget!

harpsichordcarrier · 27/08/2006 23:09

I am an antenatal teacher so obviously teach people about bf. I was preparing a class about feeding for tomorrow and read a thread that I really shouldn't have. I haven't been doing it long so I felt a huge blow to my confidence.
I also do a fair bit of peer support for breastfeeding mothers (bf cafe).
again...

VeniVidiVickiQV · 27/08/2006 23:14

Harpsi, dont be embarrassed about having feelings my lovely. I think there are a fair few that are feeling a little "stung" at the moment. Im sure that folk can understand that a little.

1Baby1Bump · 27/08/2006 23:15

dont let 'cyber scraps' on here knock you.
i would love to do a job like yours if i wasnt embarking on being a sahm anytime soon!

harpsichordcarrier · 27/08/2006 23:15

thanks VVV
not terribly fair on poor old 1baby1bump though, eh?
what a fkn day, eh? I should never have read the bloody thread in the first place in my current mood.
I blame you for not warning me

VeniVidiVickiQV · 27/08/2006 23:25

No, indeed - poor 1baby....

Harpsi, if you switched your effing MSN on I could have warned you

harpsichordcarrier · 27/08/2006 23:26

I am working donchaknow

VeniVidiVickiQV · 27/08/2006 23:29

well, yes....but....you know.....

Last night was a real low point for me I have to say.

I hope tomorrow goes well my lovely. If you arent popping on....9th okay for you?

aitch71 · 28/08/2006 00:11

harpsi and vvv,
i hope nothing i said made you feel bad, i think you just got caught in some crossfire as well last night and that wasn't fair.
please don't take a blow to your confidence, harpsi, your work is IMPORTANT. as has been amply demonstrated in those other threads, people really need your help.

fattiemumma · 28/08/2006 00:16

im not going to read the thread as these arguments lead to nothing but hurt feelings.

this is yet another article designed to make those hwo FF for whatever reason feel bad.
why do we feel the need to force our opinions on others?

There are women out there who can't for some reason or other breastfeed, why should they be made to feel like they are damaging their child because of that?

we all know breast is best, but to say that FF is no better than a marsbar is plain ridiculous. for some it is not a choice but the one thing that stops their child starving. by all means point out the positives and advantages of breastfeeding but don't keep putting FF down for doing what they felt right.
Formula isn't abuse.

yellowrose · 28/08/2006 07:56

fattie - but she isn't saying formula is like Mars Bars. She is telling us the calorific equivalent which happens to be 120 Mars Bars. I guess she could have picked KitKats instead which may have been more apt as they are also made by Nestle ?

It is irrelevant what type of food or chocolate she is referring to though, isn't it ? She is talking about calorific intake which happens to be higher in a ff baby. If you accept that "breast is best", surely it is not such a leap of imagination to accept that formula and breastmilk are composed of entirely DIFFERENT things ?

Also, if people are comfortable with their choice of feeding, why get so upset about what a jorno or any one else has to say ?

The problem comes in when people can't even accept the scientific evidence. That is where it all gets a bit illogical.

aviatrix · 28/08/2006 08:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

aitch71 · 28/08/2006 10:04

very true about the blw, aviatrix.
and yellowrose, what you seem to be missing is that a lot of ffers (myself, for example) are NOT comfortable with their choice. there was no choice.

i'm going to have to retire from these threads now as it seems there is no way to convince people (other than providing my medical records, perhaps) that bfing isn't just a question of effort sometimes and that when it isn't you can be left with very conflicted feelings and a lot of sadness. it's not about logic, yellow rose, it's about emotion. do they not have that on your planet?

i was absolutely prepared for bfing to be exhausting and hard (by a deeply wonderful antenatal teacher, harpsi) but if you don't have the milk-producing cells, you don't have 'em.

what upsets me is the attitude of people who have struggled to breastfeed and succeeded, and seem to think that if everyone just matched their struggle then they too would succeed. shall i get a reference from the specialist breasfeeding unit i attended where the midwife (a former co-worker of dr jack newman et al) said that no-one could have tried harder than me?

it's getting ridiculous, all this, and so personal, where the fact is that we are all women, we all have our struggles and we are supposed to be here to support each other, not judging and belittling. the facts are the facts, breast is best, but some consideration of the conflicted feelings of some ffers would be an act of kindess that would not go amiss.

nearlythree · 28/08/2006 10:45

Fantastic post, Aitch.

When I first came here some 4 yrs ago my first thread was about my distress at not bf. I explained that my dd1 was in NICU, and that I'd had cracked nipples and mastisis. About 20% of teh replies were unconditionally supportive. 10% suggested stuff like relactating - they meant well but just made me feel worse as I couldn't face the trauma of starting and failing again. The rest stuck the boot in. If I had cracked nipples, they were so bad their baby vomited blood on them. I had mastisis, they had it three times. But they all carried on. Sod teh fact that dd1 nearly died, and that I was getting an hour's sleep a day. They were far better mothers than me.

I gave lots of grovelly thank yous - I was so insecure I thought they were all right. I wanted to die with shame.

I stayed on Mnet because of the few, and since have had invaluable advice and support on arange of subjects. But anyone who thinks they'll get unquestioning support from teh sister hood is in cloud cuckoo land.

kittywits · 28/08/2006 10:59

So true nearlythree. Do you think MN has changed for the better in the last 4 years?

expatinscotland · 28/08/2006 11:18

I saw this last week and thought, here we go again!

TBH I'd reckon MOST of a person's body shape and size results from pure genetics.

Some people can do whatever they want and stay the same size. Others can't.

I've NEVER had a weight problem. Ever.

Bottle fed from birth.

Ditto DH.

DD1 is tall - 40 inches at just over 3 years old - and skinny. Like her dad. She looks just like him in the face and has his light colouring.

DD2 was chubby, but now she's going long and lean, too.

expatinscotland · 28/08/2006 11:20

My purse is very skinny, too.

expatinscotland · 28/08/2006 11:22

'i'm going to have to retire from these threads now as it seems there is no way to convince people (other than providing my medical records, perhaps) that bfing isn't just a question of effort sometimes and that when it isn't you can be left with very conflicted feelings and a lot of sadness. it's not about logic, yellow rose, it's about emotion. do they not have that on your planet? '

Amen, aitch.

I wouldn't wish the severe PND I had after giving birth to DD1 on anyone save total scum.

I didn't bf her b/c my mental health was SO bad I tried to take my own life.

Emotionally I was too ill to do much besides lay in bed and stare at the ceiling.

Greensleeves · 28/08/2006 11:23

nearlythree . That's terrible. I hope things are better now.

tiktok · 28/08/2006 11:33

I think one problem with internet forums is that people forget they are having a conversation with other people, with the pitfalls and the strengths of a real-life encounter plus some different ones that can make things worse, or better.

Someone like you, nearlythree, posting as you did 4 years ago (you prob had a diff nick at that time, or I would look back), runs a real risk, and one that is not obvious at the time. You risk hearing things that actually make you feel worse. I am pretty sure 70 per cent of posters (your estimate) did not intend to put the boot in, but that's how it felt to you. They were just having a conversation about how awful the first days/weeks/months of bf were for them in the way someone would in real life....they don't actually think that the way it reads to someone in a vulnerable state is 'I did it despite the torture - and you are rubbish because you didn't'.

At the time, you say you were grateful, because you believed you were rubbish! Now time has passed and you know you were not - you have a different and more rounded perspective on the situation. But what still remains is anger that people 'stuck the boot in'....can you get the same perspective on that, and maybe consider that they were just blundering about in webland, and not really knowing how little real help they were giving?

I think it's fine to mention relactation to people, by the way, with the rider (always) that this is not for everyone. Otherwise, people other than the original poster don't know it is an option. I also think it is fine to talk about stats and research, again because people may not know - and to deliberately hide stuff and pretend that there are no risks with ff is wrong.

The way the info is presented is crucial, however. And I think everyone shuld be aware that for some people, bf is a real struggle which ends in formula feeding, not through choice but through circumstances.

I happen to know, BTW, that the writer of the 'mars bars' article did indeed struggle to bf, and used formula for a time. She knows very well that bf is not a simple matter of 'choice'.

tiktok · 28/08/2006 11:39

expat, I don't know where you get your research from, but the studies I know of show that lifestyle factors play a huge role in body shape....this is the explanation for ethnic groups where there is little or no obesity in their 'homelands' blowing up like balloons within a generation or so when they move to the West (an obvious example would be the Japanese in the US).

fattiemumma · 28/08/2006 11:39

the problem is though that people will post a genuine problem or question. but people will just jump on the BF v FF band wagon and start yelling what is sometimes no more than abuse.

this helps no one and just goes to make the OP feel inadequate.

I really don't think i have met a single FF that truely beleives that breast is not best....but it isn't always an option.
if you can and do then thats great, well done.

I think of it like this, i can drive...i don't look at pedestrians and say "serves you right your getting wet, you can't be bothered to learn to drive"

(and ye si am sure there are holes to be picked in that analogy but you see my point)

by all means explain techniques, offer support and advice, pass out the infor or latest stats....by why oh bloody why do you all have to get so uptight about the feeding methods of SOMEONE ELSES BABY