Jo Frost's breastfeeding advice

[BertieBowtiesAreCool]

I've just seen this on facebook and I'm really shocked. I'm not really a fan of the alpha parent blog (and I feel a couple of her comments on here are a bit unnecessary) but honestly, the review is 99% spot on and the content of the book is unbelievable.

www.thealphaparent.com/2013/11/anti-breastfeeding-books-part-five.html

Breastfeeding mums are called "martyrs", more myths and ridiculousness than Clare-Buy-My-Book, advice which is so utterly backwards that it would do more to scupper breastfeeding than to help it, and ideas which went out of fashion about 40 years ago!

I've never liked Jo Frost but I find this just totally awful - surely she should have got a researcher in or something?!

I read some of the quotes from the book to my DH and he took some convincing they were really quotes from the book. I struggled to believe it myself, especially the bits about mothers breast feeding frequently in order to lose weight. Really?

The comment about chicken fillets was unbelievable too. What a ridiculous thing to say!

Also, when you consider how some women are left feeling because they wanted to breast feed and couldn't, it's worrying that such misinformation is allowed to be published. Sadly, I'm sure plenty of people would be happy to take advice on this from Jo Frost.

According to her '30 minute feed rule' my son has never fed for long enough, although he seems to be gaining a pound s week...

Tiktok, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I hadn't read that research (clearly!). I take most baby advice (except MN!) with a pinch of salt and do what feels right.

I don't think the fact she hasn't breastfed is the issue TBH.
I'm fairly sure Jack Newman and William Sears haven't either. It's the fact she is pretending to have some expert advice on how to do it, which is based entirely on her beliefs and opinion rather than having any base in evidence and facts.

Can't help but think that some of those quotes may have been taken out of context.

It's irrelevant that JF has not breastfed. Just having breastfed does not teach you how breastfeeding works, on enable you to give accurate information or advice to others.

Not sure what you mean by quotes taken out of context, plummy - which ones would mean something different in a different context??

They are both awful IMO but the misinformation in Jo frost's book is so lazy and inaccurate it is embarrassing.

No one is an expert in everything, even in their own specialist area.

What is odd about JF's book is that she has professional back-up on the TV programmes - I have seen this in the credits. You see the same thing in celeb chef programmes - they have others to check they're not doing anything daft or unsafe or impractical, and to do some of the donkey work of research, too.

Why is there no professional input into the babycare book? Anyone who knows anything about infant feeding would immediately spot some absolute howlers in what she says. If she wrote it all herself, why did the publisher not get it read by someone in the field? This would be normal practice.

I agree that it is hard to imagine how the vast majority of those quotes could mean anything other than than appear to, different context or not.

I wonder if the "alpha parent" realises she may well be just as undermining to breastfeeding women as this book is though? I have found the superior mentality amongst the "breastfeeding militia" since I had my son utterly shocking, disturbing and more off putting than any dodgy advice I may have read in a book.

There needs to be more women like tiktok in the world - I often read these posts and I'm sure that you have helped countless women continue to feed their babies with your compassionate (as well as accurate!) advice.

Sister thanks :)

But I am normal - the stronger voices in bf support are truly the minority.

I never meet anyone in real life bf support who does not understand the need to be genuinely non-judgmental (by 'genuinely' I mean truly not judging - not judging and hiding it!).

I don't know who the 'breastfeeding militia' are, apart from a few blogs and a few individual posters who pop up on mumsnet - and none of them are regular posters. Sometimes other posters report something pretty judgmental they have met in real life, so it does seem they exist outside the internet, too, but they are a tiny number. In real life, I have come across no more than a couple of people I would say were 'militant' and neither are actually involved in bf support....they would prob not be accepted for training and because all training emphasises non-judgmentalism, it probably would not suit them.

I think there is room for feisty, militant voices who call 'bullshit' when they smell it. The Alpha Parent is not actually purporting to give advice or help to individual mothers in her blog and she (rightly) deconstructs advice that pretends to support a woman's choice to breastfeed but actually undermines it. The risk is that she shocks mothers (especially mothers who ff, but not only those) with her bluntness and her take-no-prisoners approach.

There are plenty of blogs and posters who are equally blunt and shocking in their support of ff.

Ah yeah I didn't mean on mumsnet, I actually think people are really nice and supportive on this forum, I only started reading this in the past month or so, and my son is now 16 months.

But when my son was very little, I was overwhelmed and anxious, and I googled a LOT and I did come across a lot of pretty "militant" stuff, bf and sleep being the most likely areas when the judgment reigned. I may have just been super sensitive at the time though (although I think other mums need to bear in mind that new mums almost invariably are). And you are right, most of it was forums, and therefore I should have had the sense to look in better places for advice and reassurance. I even found the tone of Kellymom, though I thought a great source of info, pretty overwhelming at times... I don't know, maybe it was my state of mind.

I had a good book (Breastfeeding Made Simple) which I read before the birth, a good friend (who is a BF support person) and a baby who latched well despite a pretty traumatic birth so I was very very blessed.

And again, I think you ladies who give up your time to help others are awesome, thank you! I am growing number 2 so I'm still trying to learn as much as possible as I know it will likely be different this time around :)

Sister, I think mothers are super-sensitive and that is normal....most of us do tend to react to strong messages about breastfeeding and sleep (and other things, too - not just those) in just the way you did, by feeling we are being talked down to and criticised and judged.

But it's not the whole story. There is plenty of good information and non-critical support out there as well.

That's a good point actually tiktok - if Alpha Parent doesn't exist as a support forum but as a radical political forum then it makes sense that it is so polarised. I do sometimes find that her views can be pretty dismissive of other points of view though which is not very good politics - a comment describing a certain group as "chavs" is a good case in point.

I must admit I am wondering whether Analytical Armadillo will pick this up because she tends to be good at dissecting books in a very similar way but without jibes at FF mothers.

I thought the most interesting thing in the whole blog was this (aggressive) line: "There’s no room for politics in maternal issues. When mothers disagree with each other, that’s called ‘judging’ and not permitted under mommy law (when men do it, it’s called ‘debate’, but never mind about that)."

For me, it doesn't quite work like that, but it does work similarly: people get very upset in bf (and other related debates, eg cosleeping) because the dividing line is gone between the personal and the political. So a perspective that is political and in favour of bf or points out the downsides of ff is read as personal - as a comment that a mother who has ff has made the wrong choice. And then it kicks off.

Feels insoluble to me, because I think I and many others will continue to propound the benefits of bf, and that will continue to be read as personal commentary by others.

That is very true, Home.

Yes, I thought the point about judging versus debate was a good one.

I don't know the answer, either.

Feeding a baby is so very flippin personal.....no escape from it :)

I cannot believe this nonsense is allowed to be published. (I mean Jo Frost's book). It is not only incorrect but frankly offensive. I appreciate that some posters find the tone of alpha parent too strong in tone, but at least the comments are evidence based.

This type of information ( in JF book) must be so off putting to new mums - who wants to be exhausted, overeating, clock watching, with a disengaged unsatisfied husband, leaky boobs and need chicken fillets to hoik them up? . What about the positive reasons to bf? From reading this I wouldn't think there were any. Not only that but if A woman did try to bf and had no other information to help her, she would be going against advice of all the major health organisations not to mention fighting nature.

This is not a nice representation of bf, not helpful at all and should not be allowed. People will read this and follow it to the letter thinking it's credible.

The exerts from the book a dismal and incredibly derogatory against BFing mothers. Making them out to be selfish martyrs who don't let their fathers take part in parenting. Instead of seeing breastfeeding as loving and the best start for their babies. I can hardly say that page is militant at all. It is pointing out some terrible inaccuracies.

Sadly people will read this book instead of reading their baby

I've actually managed to read the whole blog now (toddler does not allow for more than 3 sentences at a time).

As much as I dislike the AP, I do agree with a lot of her comments against this book. Granted, I haven't read the book myself, so there may be positive pieces in there about BF.

It is very sad that this book may be picked up and taken as gospel. I honestly hope that no book or blog etc is taken as gospel by a new parent.

I think a lot of people like to have a book to rely on, and often do stick to one book as it's easier and less confusing

I haven't got as far as the Jo Frost quotes, in fact I haven't got past the opening paragraph.

"When a ‘TV nanny’ writes a parenting book, those with common sense shudder. They are fully aware that the lower bulk of the population (I’m not saying they’re ‘chavs’, well okay I am) that worship at the altar of celebrity will view its pages as gospel."

WTF??

Agree, pobble....that's horrible and snobbish.

Agree with 48th - both Frost and Alphamum are as bad as one another, representing unhealthy extremes. Though arguably Frost is more dangerous - because anyone reading Alphamum would immediately realise that blog is really way out there, while Frost is coming from a background of being "Supernanny from telly who's helped loads of families" so a lot of people will assume she does know what she's talking about.

Frost's "chicken fillets" comment is appalling, but so too is alphamum's comment that "3. Taking medication being a bar to breastfeeding (reality: it’s not)" - rare, often there are alternatives, and it's always worth talking to your GP about what your options might be, but sometimes women do have life-threatening conditions which need to be treated with drugs which are not compatible with BF, and there isn't an alternative (there are other equally annoying bits - I latched onto this one because of a friend with life-threatening PND who needed anti-depressants to prevent suicidal ideation - yes, there are some anti-Ds compatible with BF, but in this situation, you want the one you are advised is likely to be the most effective)..

And the "chavs" comment is just unbelievable.

Interesting. The JF book is old. I have it and have read it cover to cover. Bought when pregnant with DS (5yo). I FF DS so quite liked the fact that the book was one of only a few that acknowledged that FF was an "asseptable" alternative to BF. I did, even as a neurotic, shell shocked first time mother, take it all with a teeny pinch of salt. She simply doesn't have enough authority and intelligence in her writing to be taken as a baby guru.
Fast forward 5 and a half years and I'm an EBF, co-sleeping, sling-wearing hippy, and have no desire to take advice from anyone really, especially JF.
It's the first time I've come across AP and while I can see she's controversial and perhaps a tad aggressive, I'm interested in reading more of her rants views. I do wonder why she's decided to review this book now, such a long time after its original publication.

Maybe you should ask her MissPemberly? I didn't realise the book was that old either.