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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Help for baby who doesn't want to feed and is losing weight

113 replies

hunkermunker · 10/07/2006 21:34

When i had my ds i despearetly wanted to bf, but i didn't really have a clue what i was doing. i had read all the leaflets and websites etc but when putting it into practice it was not as easy as it all sounded. the midwife who had delivered my ds was going off shift about an hour after he was born and although she did stay with me trying to get him to latch on for a bit all she did waskeep shoving my boob in his mouth. she didn't actually tell me anything i could do to help things. then a few hours later another midwife came around and said if he hadn't fed we wouldn't be able to go home and i should give him a bottle cos he would be starving as he hadn't fed since he was born. i still desperately wanted to breastfeed and thought in the comfort of my own home i would manage it.

i am still trying to perservere but now HV is not happy because he has lost weight. tbh he doesn't feed well on breast or bottle (he has some EBM) - he has something called floppy larynx syndrome which makes it difficult for him to breathe when feeding. they want to put him on some increased calorie formula and if he still fails to thrive he will have to go to hospital.

i hate the fact that he doesn't want to feed let alone breastfeed. he has been known to go 9 hours without a feed cos he just refuses to take anything and then i doubt he's even had enough. going to still try and keep up with the breastfeedingm but i can't help but think it is all gonna end very soon

OP posts:
Original poster
hunkermunker · 20/07/2006 22:20

I linked to this earlier in the thread, but am doing so again it's the numbers for various different bfeeding supportlines.

Please ring one of them. It's not right that you're so unsupported at this time.

If you're anywhere near me, I'll come and see you - I'm in west London.

OP posts:
Original poster
hunkermunker · 20/07/2006 22:20

Not that I'm a BFC, btw - just might be able to help a bit.

OP posts:
bamboozleslover · 21/07/2006 18:54

im in the west midlands. i will see if there are any other organisations in the area i only knew of NCT.

tiktok - how do i know if my baby is actually transferring milk?

also how long should he be feeding? he tends to feed for about half an hour and then fall asleep at the breast but never stays asleep for very long. should he be falling asleep if he is still hungry?

i had fed ds today 3 times over 3 hours and then i went in the bath. he cried and when i got out to my annoyance rather than coming to get me my lovely interfering mother had given him a bottle to which he had wolfed down and her response was see i told you the poor thing wa starving he obviously isn't getting enough milk. although i swiftly removed the bottle and got him to feed from me i can't help but think she might be right.

also kiskidee, if milk doesn't "run out" what is this concept of emptying the breast?i assumed that meant there was no milk left in that breast and then it had to be remade so if i put him on after the breast had been emptied there would not be any milk for him.

tiktok · 21/07/2006 21:34

Your baby shows he is transferring milk by swallowing and sucking - not just sucking. There are no rules about how long a baby should be on the breast - a young baby will often fall asleep and then perk up and want some more shortly afterwards - it's a good way of getting a supply established and a way of getting milk in, too.

to the feeding when you were in the bath - your mum has to be told not to do this. It is incredibly undermining to you personally, and to your milk supply. OK, he wolfed down the bottle, but he would have wolfed down your milk too if it had been on offer.

'Emptying the breast' is not a useful concept at all - forget about it

Bamboo you are doing just great, hanging on in there, with such terrible support from your mum....she no doubt means well, but what a thing to do....

bamboozleslover · 21/07/2006 21:55

that's what i thought - but i can't tell if he is swallowing or not. i am worried he is just sucking.

WellieMum · 22/07/2006 03:18

Hi there

Am reluctant to stick my oar in with experts about, but just til they come back, try this for swallowing (taught to me by bf counsellor):

Look at baby's throat, hard to explain in words exactly where, but below the ear and more or less level with the chin.

When he's feeding, watch the movement there. You'll see his throat move regularly in a particular way for sucking, and then a different way for swallowing (and you can probably hear the swallow too).

So at the beginning of a feed you'll see suck... suck.. suck... quite quickly as he gets the letdown going.

Then, with (hopefully) a fast milk flow, you'll see suck...swallow...suck...swallow.. ie lots of swallowing relative to sucking.

At the end of the feed, the rhythm will change again to something like suck...suck...suck...swallow... pause...suck... suck... suck... swallow.

That way, you can keep tabs on how much he's actually swallowing relative to sucking which in turn is a measure of how effectively he's feeding.

I was advised that the way to maximise feeding and boost milk supply was to watch the swallow rate, and as soon as it slowed down, to swap dd1 to the other side, and keep swapping as long as she wanted to feed. It worked well for us.

Hope that helps, much easier to see in real life than to describe so apologies if my description doesn't make much sense! Also, I'm happy to stand corrected by people with better knowledge!

tiktok · 22/07/2006 09:54

Pretty good, WellieMum

The only thing I would quibble with is that it's not quite as predictable as you describe in terms of the order of things - for example, it's quite possible for a baby to have fewer sucks and more swallows with a fast milk flow...the let down is doing the work of getting the milk into the mouth without the baby having to do much sucking, and for another example the baby may speed up a bit after a period of slower feeding, on the same side.

In the normal course of events, there's no need for a mother to be watching all of this; she can just let it happen. I think your point about switching sides when the baby slows down can be useful if there is real concern about getting the supply up, but mostly the mum does not need to be that watchful.

I have come across situations where the baby has been sucking away but has not been transferring milk, or hardly at all. But as you say, just watching the throat shows you the baby swallowing.

Hope this gives you some good ideas, bamboo.

WellieMum · 22/07/2006 11:50

Oooh, thanks, tiktok! Point taken about the order of things not always being that clear-cut.

You're spot on, actually - the reason I was told all this was that dd1 was sucking away but not swallowing (poor latch), and there were concerns about her weight gain and my milk supply.

It was very reassuring to be able to monitor the swallowing myself and see how things improved over time.

Bamboo, not sure how relevant this is to your situation but hope it helps.

bamboozleslover · 22/07/2006 13:49

how can i improve ds' latch? he seems to want to nipple feed as opposed to breastfeed - OUCH! i do the brushing his lower lip with my nipple thing but i don't think he is opening his mouth wide enough.
also i read rather than just bringing the head to your breast you should bring the hole body, but i'm not really sure to go about doing this. whenever i try it feels very awkward, but ds does not approve very much of me trying to push his head on the boob!

alex8 · 22/07/2006 13:57

I used to tickle my sons chin/lower lip which made him open his mouth wider.

tiktok · 22/07/2006 14:45

It's hard to improve latch and attachment without someone actually being there....pushing the baby's had is a no-no, and yes, bringing the whole body towards you when the mouth is at its widest is key.

But I can't say any more, bamboozleslover...you have to see someone face to face. There are other nos. to ring, and your HV/midwife should know of local support for you. I hope you get someone soon.

bamboozleslover · 22/07/2006 16:34

got the number of the local LLL leader from HV. hopefully she will be able to help me..

kiskidee · 22/07/2006 20:51

baby cafe BL: browse this link to see if there is one near to you. if you haven't yet, you can also find your local NCT group here. being around like minded mums is very important and someone with specialist knowledge may also be present.

Original poster
hunkermunker · 24/07/2006 19:10

Have you seen anyone from LLL yet, Bamboo?

OP posts:
quootiepie · 24/07/2006 20:05

Hiya... My baby didnt latch for about 2 weeks, i expressed during that time. I tried on breast for 20 minutes, then gave the bottle to him (always expressing an ounce more than he took eg. if he had 2 1/2, i expressed 3 to make sure he took enough). 1st few days was only 25-60 mls a feed. When he abit bigger and stronger and less sleepy gradually the bottle phased out. But if your baby has a condition that makes it hard to take high quantaties of feed, then I guess high calorie does sound an option. You can maybe give him breastmilk inbetween these feeds, I know you cant overfeed a breastfed baby, but im not sure when you mix formula and breast. Ask your health visitor... then you can have best of both worlds.

quootiepie · 24/07/2006 20:07

Also, I had/have flat nipples. Expressing before a feed helped as it made my nipples stick out more and more latchable. Also, they were covered in milk. Baby now is good enough to suck them out himself

quootiepie · 24/07/2006 20:10

sorry, also remembered I pinched my nipples and placed them in his mouth, and held my boobs so the weight didnt cause the nipple to fall out. Midwives were just plunging his head onto my breast, but i found taking it slow and doing as much as you can for them (eg. putting niple in mouth) seemed best.

Littlefish · 25/07/2006 14:34

Bamboo - are you able to say whereabouts in the West Midlands you are? If not, e-mail me on littfishyone at hotmail dot co dot uk.

I'm in the West Midlands too, and I may be able to help you find a contact if I'm near enough.

Have you tried SureStart? They have Best Buddies, who are breast feeding supporters.

mears · 25/07/2006 15:06

these short video clips on this site might help until you get to see someone.

mears · 25/07/2006 15:07

The video clips are at the bottom of the page of the previous link or here

bamboozleslover · 25/07/2006 22:23

sorry i haven't been about much..toby-jack ended up being admitted to the children's ward - very high temp, breathlessness, choking, gasping, spluttering and puking up all his food - something he has never done before and with it being a sunday i knew getting hold of a GP would take forever and they would probably say it was nothing. anyway A&E thought he should stay in so that's why i haven't been around.
littlefish - i am in kingswinford. it is near stourbridge/merry hill. do best buddies do home visits?
hunkermunker - contacted LLL and they don't do home visits. she did give me a lot of information though.

bluejelly · 25/07/2006 22:36

Sorry that your baby is in hospital. Poor thing. Hopefully he will out soon though. Babies that age seem so fragile but really they are pretty tough.
I guess they are feeding him formula in hospital, or are you expressing?
Shame that LLL couldn't do a home visit.
Is it worth ringing the LLL or NCT head office and begging them to send someone?

tiktok · 25/07/2006 23:09

bamboo....I am really sorry to hear about this. Hope the hosp helps and that your ds starts to recover soon.

bluejelly - all NCT counsellors and LLL people are volunteers. They don't get sent anywhere by their offices. Some will do home visits, some do sometimes....it depends on their own time and availability.

There may be an infant feeding adviser at the hosp, bamboo.

hotmama · 25/07/2006 23:23

Bamboo - please try again to get someone to see you again face to face - imho it will make all the difference. It certainly helped me. My local LLL contact came out and spent 2 evenings helping me - hence I am still exc bf at 24 weeks.

Ring them and let them know how dire the situation is. Does the hosp not have a bf counsellor or something. I think the support you are getting is dire - it's not enough for your hv to just give you a number.

Well done you for persevering - hope you get the help you need and your lo gets better soon.

bamboozleslover · 26/07/2006 01:09

the first 2 days i was there all day and night so breastfed and topped up with formula but now i am expressing a little for him as mum has stayed with him tonight to give me a rest. it really is impossible to sleep there!