Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

[SarahMumsnet]

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

I understand your scepticism about the studies Duck, I really do, as I often wonder whether all factors have been properly "controlled for" in various studies.
However I think recent studies have shown that, even accounting for all other factors, breast-feeding does bring additional emotional benefits to the developing baby/child.
From my experience of the closeness, bonding, and emotional support I felt breastfeeding gave to my DC I personally think this makes sense.
And greater emotional security may well bring other developmental and educational benefits too well into the child's future life.

I wanted to breastfeed, but due to an undiagnosed tongue tie it never happened. This seems like a stupid idea - one to one support would be a much better use of the money.

Ducktowater I think you'll find the studies talk about the increase in IQ which is not the same as 'doing well at school'. So socio economics doesn't play the part you think it will. Unless you want to argue that IQ tests are not 'culture free' which is another thread ..................

From a personal point of view I agree with Juggling. Bfing feels like more than feeding - I will often offer bf to dd if she's tired/upset and it calms her down a lot. It's very stress relieving to be able to offer something tangible to an upset child that works reliably and that isn't bad for them. Babies seem to derive a lot of comfort from bfing.

Plenty of Pubes, it happens in the case of healthy start vouchers, where pregnant women on low incomes/benefits are given vouchers towards eating healthily. that is giving money towards doing something with their bodies (eating better) so as to do the best for their child. this idea is the same (tho I don't like it).

Loopy my understanding is that it is relatively uncommon for a woman not to be physically able to produce milk. however it is relatively common for a baby not to latch well in the early days (due to tongue tie or poor technique) with the result that the mother's supply is never stimulated. 200 years ago bottles existed (glass, often with a milk soaked rag instead of a teat) and babies were fed cows milk. and there were wet nurses as you say. it was also more common for women to have babies at very small intervals, so it may be that the milk supply from dc1 was still there to feed dc2, so dc2's poor latch didn't matter so much. also tongue tie may have been less common because the babies with TT may well have died and not passed it on (it is genetic). just some ideas.

£200, that's it! wow that'll really make a difference to mothers and children in deprived areas. Its said that women from lower socio-economic groups opt to FF but what difference will £200 make to their lives and those of their children. Whereas MC mothers are said to BF, why pay them, they are not only up to doing it but so often up for "marketing" this wonder food to all who will listen.

I, neither needing the money, nor desiring to BF wouldn't have done so for £200,000 let alone £200.

Rather than paying those who would anyway or those who are MC to breastfeed we should be focusing on early years ed, raising educational achievements, demanding better working hrs and better pay, but most of all turning the tide in terms of inequality. For it is class inequality and poverty that blights the lives of children...not lack of BF.

I think you can get the same bonding and closeness while feeding with a bottle, Juggling.

I certainly accept that babies who have not been loved as much as they ought to have been can go on to have a lot of problems as children an adults. I just don't accept that bonding/closeness/attachment/love/security or however you brand it can only be delivered by suckling milk from their mothers.

I only breastfed because largely it came easily, DD1 seemed to know what she was doing if I didn't, and by DD2 my breasts knew what they were doing from the word go as well. I gave up largely at 3 months with DD2 though as I knew formula feeding was absolutely fine too (after introducing formula gradually from five months to doing last feed at eight months with DD1) as it was more convenient with a second child for other people to be able to help and feed her more.

I breastfed for 7 years in total (2 babies one 18 months after the other). Itsvery very hard in the beginning and nothing can prepare you for it. But once established its the simplist easiest low cost way to feed.
I don't think two hundred pounds would have made any difference to how I felt about it though. Either you want to do it and you preserve through all the pain and anguish and eventually get there or you decide its not for you and move on. I think instead of paying women money they should put that money into having more breastfeeding counsellors and help available for new mums to enable them to continue breastfeeding when the going gets tough.

IQ tests measure people being good at IQ tests Loopy pretty much sums up what I think of them.

There is already a natural financial incentive to breastfeed and it isn't working. The reasons why it isn't working (in enough cases) should be examined

And yes it is patronising and unethical

and also, it is very sad that we apparently live in a society that is so stupid that it believes that the only way to value something is to crudely slap a wodge of money onto it. Don't get me wrong, I like money, and it is very useful, and I would like people who have less of it to have more of it. But this is just - stupid and crude and clunky

"I think you can get the same bonding and closeness while feeding with a bottle, Juggling."

does anyone really doubt that?

You can't get the same nutrition and health benefits from feeding formula though.

A BFing parent already saves a large chunk of money, more than 200 over six months, simply by not buying tinned milk, let alone bottles, steriliser and bottle warmer. If someone is BFing purely for financial reasons, they already have it.

I tried and failed to BF my first. If I ever have anothe, all the money in the world wpuldnt keep me BFing.

I think this is a terrible idea. It is also deeply flawed at its very core - working from the belief that poor/underprivileged women will only breastfeed if given money to do so.
That is a disgusting viewpoint that completely ignores the social and educational problems around bfing among poorer mothers. What is needed is better education and more support (i.e. more lactation consultants and better training for midwives), not just throwing money at women.

Of course then there's the social stigma attached to bfing among less privileged families and younger women generally. My then-19yo sister was repulsed when I told her about breast pumps and she didn't understand why I was sad that I couldn't bf my son - she thought bfing was "gross" and that my breasts should be exclusively for my DP
Sadly I don't think anything much can be done about the over-sexualisation of women's breasts, but there you go.

why would you need an incentive? i breastfed all 3 of mine but had to stop with my 1st after 6 wks for health reasons, my 2nd i didnt last 2 weeks because she just wouldnt take then my ds3 i breastfed til his 1st bday!!
the nhs is supposed to be at breaking point, i dont think giving people money to do what comes naturally to every mother is the i would rather the money they have found for this be used to set up a scubu unit, or pay towards more nursing & midwifery staff.
its just ridiculous

I'm probably missing something really simple, but if financial gain was a proper incentive to breastfeed, wouldn't the fact that breastfeeding is free compared to the £50 or £60 a month for the formula alone push more women to breastfeed?

This is really interesting and the more you think of it the more complex it becomes. It's similar to the question of childcare vouchers and sahms.

Firstly I have always found it a ridiculous inequality that vouchers are available for formula with no equivalent for breastfeeding. IMO there should not be a government incentive for ff. that's not to say those who need the incentive shouldn't be given enough to enable them to buy formula if they want to; but I don't think that formula should be explicitly incentivised in this way.

On this latest scheme, if it is to equalise the position wrt vouchers for formula, it could be designed so as to provide targeted financial help with the costs of bf. vouchers could have been for instance only redeemable against nursing bras and clothes. Some people can't afford these things and are put off bf because of worries about feeding outside etc etc. this would remove the issue of proof. (Because who would buy a nursing bra if they don't need to ).

I do think that the economic contribution of bf should be recognised. This if discussed in depth in The Politics of Breastfeeding and is a really interesting concept. In a capitalist society where success is predominantly measured in financial terms, bf is an unrecognised but major contributor. Not only at source ie the notional 'cost' of breast milk, but based on the research, the potential cost saving of reduced healthcare costs.

I think that in order to enable those who want to, to bf, so much has to be done to promote bf, and make it everyday, and educate people. All of this is obvious sadly from just reading some threads on here every day. Anything which brings bf to the attention of the public and suggests it is of worth is positive IMO, although the results of the pilot will show whether and in what form an incentive for bf would be beneficial.

That is a disgusting viewpoint that completely ignores the social and educational problems around bfing among poorer mothers. What is needed is better education and more support (i.e. more lactation consultants and better training for midwives), not just throwing money at women

No, what is needed is to eradicate deprivation full stop and better BF advice isn't the natural or sensible place to start.

Why do we even have such inequality and disadvantage? If all things being equal and there were no socio-economic and educational deficits then it would follow that ALL women would have the same opportunities and access to resources be they advice and guidance or enough bloody money to feed and clothe their children.

As many posters have said, we need FAR BETTER encouragement and gentle support for new mums in the early days. I had my last stay in a maternity ward nearly three years ago when I had DC3 and was shocked to overhear the nursing assistant's brusque advice to a recently delivered, crying, exhausted mum. I wish, wish, wish that I had booted her out of the room myself and given that mum some kind, gentle help and a big shoulder to cry upon.

£200 per mum would go much further if it was put into establishing lovely, regular, cosy breastfeeding clubs where mums were offered a nice hot lunch, a good chat and some friendly help. How about paying mums from these socio-economic areas who are established breastfeeders for their services as breastfeeding counsellors?

Anyway working on a "trust" basis is meaningless.

If you aren't prepared to bf for its own sake but would do so for £200 then I suggest you would probably be prepared to say you breastfeed for £200. And I don't blame you actually.

What "counts"? If you lose the money if your baby gets one bottle of formula, in extremis, that is pretty draconian. If you put the baby on the breast for 2 minutes once a day, while giving 6 formula bottles, is that breastfeeding?

Who cares? - I don't. Just give £200 to everyone with a baby, to spend on chocolate and nice pyjamas. And support everyone who wants to, to breastfeed, at the same time.

I don't know, I have breastfed al four of mine to 12 months or so. But learning the skill, particularly with the lack of information available 20 years ago, was not easy. I had the bleeding nipples, the blocked ducts, the lot.
But the worst thing was the lack of support and the misinformation. Looking back, my own Mum was like some anti breastfeeding propagandist, "He can't be hungry again, you only fed him two hours ago. He can't be getting enough. If you gave him a bottle we could all help. For goodness sake put your top on, why are you wandering around half naked? That poo really doesn't look right to me. He hasn't gone for days, he must be constipated, give him some sugar and water."
It is heartwarming to hear my teenage daughters automatic assumptions that they will breast feed, and nice to know I will have some knowledge to help them.

Is Prince George being breast fed? What about the Beckham babies? No-one complains about their life-style choices. It is only poor people who have to be persuaded to do something deemed "best". I agree with MissMini, we have more important things to worry about and pay for.

Actually, was Prince George breast fed? Does anyone know?

"On this latest scheme, if it is to equalise the position wrt vouchers for formula, it could be designed so as to provide targeted financial help with the costs of bf. vouchers could have been for instance only redeemable against nursing bras and clothes."

Yes, I was wondering about that - perhaps MWs and HVs in deprived areas (or nationally, as low income families also live in wealthy areas) could be given a discretionary fund to offer targeted material support to those women they think would benefit most from it. Lots of items might be useful for breastfeeding mums including pumps, sterilizers and bottles, bras, pads and feeding aprons. Or, if it appears that the mother isn't eating well enough, then food vouchers. I think this would be different to offering cash/vouchers generally as it is about providing support rather than reward.

SundaySimmons Tue 12-Nov-13 10:03:35

"Unless there is a medical reason, I can't understand why breastfeeding is being described as hard." Well, you will never know how lucky you are not to comprehend that.

It's comments like this one that make mothers like me never make their peace. My "baby" is now 5 YO and I still cried when I read this.

It's ignorant, arrogant and patronising to say something like that to mothers like me, who tried bloody hard for months despite bleeding, cracks, baby losing weight! (what an idiot I was, but that's pressure to BF for you), panic attacks and the ensuing PND for "failing" at something that was "easy". Easy my arse. Very glad it is for so many women, but it's bloody not for many, many others.

Also "medical reasons" covers a hell of a lot of stuff. Including anxiety and other issues that do wreak havoc with your supply and MH.

Sorry, this was mentioned way up thread, but I just had to get this off my chest.

I can understand the reasoning behind the trial however I feel the study fails to take account for the fact that, as a fellow bf mum put it, it's essentially a major lifestyle choice - not just for mum and baby but also the wider family. Aside the fact that many women struggle or are not 'prepared' for the reality of bf in the early weeks -which is a challenge in itself as every mum's birth experience and bf experience is individual to her - bf very quickly it becomes much more than that. For example, bf is a source of comfort during teething and colds, helps regulate temperature for the baby and eases any reflux. However, feeding on demand can be very difficult, especially at night! A part of this life style choice CAN result in bed sharing, which new mums are scared into avoiding, despite (as research and bf mums around the world confirm) it being a natural 'side effect' of bf. However, this does impact on social life etc and so the support of partners and wider family is needed - not least as you feel a 'failure' or are 'giving in'.

For me, bed sharing and feeding at night (including those terrible teething/ developmental all night boobathons) has enabled me to return to work 3 days a week in a job which is physically demanding and has no practical opportunities to express. Therefore I have been happy for him to 'reverse cycle' and am lucky in that I find feeding back to sleep lying down works for both of us. (It took a while though! probably only when he was around 7 months did we manage to do it well and sleep!) If anyone had said to me that this would be what I would be doing at 11 months in order to continue bf I wouldn't have believed them and MIGHT have reconsidered bf. However, as I was bf myself till 2 and a half it's always been 'what you do'.

We did struggle though. I have had to seek advice and support from nct helplines and my local very supportive la leche league thoroughout my bf journey. I feel £200 would be better spent on providing properly trained lactation consultants in hospital and attached to health visitors as I had terrible advice in hospital over expressing for a baby who had low birth weight - and just needed feeding. He only gained weight when I fed him on demand instead of the silly 3 hour schedule they had him on. But I ended up with over supply. And we need better understanding of, diagnosis of and treatment of tongue tie including posterior and mild tt, to help new mums feed pain free.

We need a change in culture too. Recently, our local Fenwicks window display for a baby event included stylishly dressed mums pushing prams, with fancy cots against a backdrop wall hanging of large blue and pink bottles. Expressing machines, nursing covers, slings, (not baby bjorns!), nursing tops were all excluded from the display. Even the feeding room at the newly built great north children's hospital has a bottle on it's sign.

maitri that's a really good idea.