Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

[SarahMumsnet]

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

"Absolutely, bleedingheart. There are areas in the UK where the number of women who even start breastfeeding is under 20 per cent. The women who manage this, in the face of often massive hostility, may not breastfeed for long."

IMO those women in these areas who do breastfeed deserve more than £250. They deserve a medal and a t-shirt saying 'I stuck two thumbs nipples up at convention to give my baby the best start in life'.

I really admire women in these situations who give breastfeeding a go. :-)

biryani, did you read my post? You do now accept that the research you are asking for does exist, yes?

I don't know where you have been looking but the research is easily accessible - leaflets from the NHS and UNICEF are widely distributed and they make it pretty clear what it means by 'better', by listing specific outcomes,

Mini - so how would it be policed? How will the HVs know? Will they be doing spot checks in kitchens for illicit formula? I can't imagine what mechanism would prevent a woman from lying to get the money.

I've bfed two babies - am still currently bfing 8 mth old dd - and I have to say the complete lack of knowledge about bfing among NHS professionals (doctors and nurses alike) has really shocked me. So many HCPs have said things to me that clearly indicate they haven't the first clue how bfing works - it's almost like a child commenting on how you drive a car. Given that the people women are most likely to turn to haven't a clue, what hope is there? Offering an incentive like this won't make a blind bit of difference because a JL voucher won't tell an exhausted distraught mother what to do when she's exhausted and in pain and she can't get a hysterical hungry baby to feed.

I think if milk vouchers are given out to those who FF it might be an idea to give out the equivalent value (for food I'd suggest) to those who BF.

I do seem to remember seeing vouchers given out to those FF at a health centre I went to with DD (in 2000) and think this could disincentivise some women from BFing - especially if there is a culture of everyone FF and taking the vouchers for formula milk.

But I don't know if this still happens? Does anyone else know?

I found BFing easy and my DC also took to it like ducklings to water
I BF them both for what many would describe as an extended time (extended from what though - the average ?!)

Due to being well informed I would not personally be much influenced in my decisions by vouchers one way or the other.

"Most people have a basic grasp, I think, of why breastfeeding is considered better in the first six months or so."

In the areas the programme is going to run in, you may find that this isn't the case.

The DOH infant feeding survey found that 38% of women who planned for ff couldn't name one reason why breastfeeding might be healthier for babies.

"Mini - so how would it be policed? How will the HVs know? Will they be doing spot checks in kitchens for illicit formula? I can't imagine what mechanism would prevent a woman from lying to get the money."

The scheme doesn't require mothers not to use formula as far as I can see.

Most UK babies are mixed fed.

It requires them to be breastfeeding. I'm not sure how much, as details of the scheme aren't currently available online as far as I can see. The only thing I have seen is that midwives and health visitors are involved with administering it and that it will be 'front loading' - ie, they'll get the bulk of the money when they start breastfeeding. If they can show they're still breastfeeding at 6 weeks, they'll get the rest.

You should never assume that others have the same knowledge as you. I've worked with a lot of parents who didn't know things about nutrition and health that I would consider very basic, such as the fact that certain foods and drinks are worse for your teeth than others. It's easy to look at someone doing something that you consider wrong and think they're willfully ignoring good advice but it's worth remembering that there are large sections of society that don't look outside their own family circle for parenting role models and advice.
At least three doctors I've spoken to made it very clear from what they said that they genuinely don't understand the mechanics of bfing and what it means for the baby and mother. If they don't know then it's not a stretch to say that others with less education than they also don't know.

Great idea.
50 quid for pregnancy
2-300 for labour, plus damages
I'm in.

Oh and one of those doctors was a very experienced and eminent breast surgeon!!

"We also need to know what the definition of "better" is. Does it mean that breastfed babies do better in school? Do they get fewer colds? Are they fitter? Do they get better jobs? Apologies for sounding flippant, but we need something a bit more credible than a throwaway statement to h..lp us make informed decisions."

Well - the information is out there

here

and

here

for starters!

Some reasons I have heard for not BFing (as discussed by women in the deprived area where I live):

BFing is lazy.
BFing is freaky/weird (well I guess it would be if you don't know anyone who BFs).
BFing is bad for your boobs.
BFing is perverted - if you BF to 6 months you are getting sexual kicks from it and should be reported.

I don't think nutrition comes into it unfortunately. I suppose that a financial incentive might go some way to normalising BFing, it is going to be tough to overcome some of moral disapproval of BFing in this area.

Cailin - stories have filtered back from our local hospital of paediatricians routinely telling mothers pregnant with twins that they can't make enough milk to feed both their babies and that they will HAVE to use formula milk.

I've also come across some shockingly ignorant midwives and MSW's.

You tend to find that the more ignorant and less skilled they are at supporting breastfeeding, the more they try to convince a mother that breastfeeding doesn't matter. It is deeply depressing how many women who've clearly had very little input when it comes to skilled breastfeeding support, rhapsodize about the decency of the HVs, GP's or mw's who TELL them to go out and buy formula or stop breastfeeding in preference to referring them to someone who might actually sort their problem out. Because they're too fucking arrogant to say 'actually I don't know how to help you with your breastfeeding problem'.

It really shouldn't need proving that it's better for babies to be fed the milk that is designed for them rather than an adapted version of milk designed for a baby cow

very sad that some people doubt this, it's a testament to the formula marketing machine.

idea to be shot down: What about a govt scheme that lends out breast pumps instead of giving formula vouchers?

"BFing is perverted"

Sadly I can believe this.

If the vouchers make a difference to these sorts of attitudes then that'll be a great thing.

At the risk of being condemned here, are there REALLY mothers who cannot breast feed at all? What would have happened 200 years ago? would their babies have died? I suppose the answer then was wet nurses. But I suspect too many women give up quite easily. Not the MN who are posting here but other women who were never motivated to BF in the first place.

Often it IS hard to keep going and I suspect too many mums who try it give up at the first set back.

My babies BF easily but I have terribly sore nipples which bled. I persevered and fed each exclusively for 4 months then had to start topping up as my babies stopped gaining enough weight. I was very upset and felt a failure. I stopped completely when they were 6 months.

biryani "There is a message that breastfed babies somehow "do better" than others" Too right biryani - they actually do

In fact almost everything you ask in your questions - actually the answer is probably "yes" eg. they do get fewer colds, they probably do do better in school etc. etc.

And from Mini's post - wow I'm so shocked that you got banned from Bounty (and would be from NetMums too) just for saying that formula feeding involves comparative risks to the baby compared to breastfeeding.

Wow! The FF manufacturers have such a strangle hold on freedom of information - such an influence on what can be said on influential parenting sites like Bounty and Netmums. That is sooo shocking

All the more reason to get Bounty off our post-natal wards. They are just puppets of the FF manufacturers

I think there's actually something deeply dodgy and unethical about paying poor women to make certain choices about what they do with their bodies. In what other context does that happen?

I had a lovely time BF my two for two years each. I was extremely lucky that I had no problems because the support was not there if I had needed it and no amount of 'promotion' can make up for that.

We need:

1. proper ongoing support for women who want to breastfeed, including a routine tongue-tie check at birth.

2. support for women who don't want to breastfeed too, because I have frequently read on here that midwives are 'not allowed' to show new mothers how to make up bottles etc. - if we want to cut the rates of GI infections, this would surely help.

Can't help wondering if this isn't just the government attempting to skew the stats a bit too.

Yes Loopy - breasts aren't infallible and go wrong just like every other part of the body. Some women just don't produce milk or have nipples that make bfing impossibly difficult. In the past the child would have been fed by another woman or would have been given inadequate nutrition from cows milk or whatever passed for acceptable baby food in that area/era. Many many children died before the age of 5.

I don't think the socio-economic aspects have been fully stripped out of those studies, no matter how much they say they have.

Kids of parents who are middle to upper class, reasonably off and there is no learning disability are more than likely to do well at school regardless of how they were fed as a baby. If they are part of the marginsalised underclass, working class or lower middle class there are likely to be more challenges, from getting help with feeding the baby onwards.

Great post Cailin.

Also PlentyofPubeGardens completely agree. Great name :)

I want paid to lose weight! Can I get £200? Please?!

I think it's a crazy notion to pay someone to breastfeed. Either you want to do it or you don't. Money won't change that, IMO.

At the risk of being condemned here, are there REALLY mothers who cannot breast feed at all? What would have happened 200 years ago?

Yes, there are mothers who can't breastfeed, despite all the correct help from many sources, persevering through the pain, etc. 200 years ago they'd have used cows milk, a wet nurse, or the baby died.