Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

[SarahMumsnet]

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

I'm with the camp that says the money would be better put into support mechanisms. I hate most financial "incentives" from Mummy Government, even though I would have taken it if it had been on offer when I had DD. That's simply cos I like money - how many don't? I breastfed because I thought I was doing the right thing, not because I was paid to. I especially don't like the fact that you don't have to prove it, which I reckon will lead to heaps of it going down the drain anyway. And, as LittleBearPad says, it excludes those who tried and failed (unless they lie, which evidently they could and I wouldn't entirely blame them).

The biggest thing against it is simply that it's so mechanistic. I spent months trying to explain to DH that breastfeeding is not simply a matter of "attach child and let it all happen". You have to want to do it, be in the mood to do it, your child has to want to do it, etc - too many variables all at the same time, it's a wonder it ever happens at all! Handing over some spud will not make all that any more likely.

Honestly, this is wrong on so many levels.

I take the point from women here who say they wanted to BF but couldn't. However, I am pretty sure that these women are a small minority of the women who don't BF. The majority would be perfectly able to BF successfully but choose not to. This incentive is aimed at those women not the women who would like to but can't. Unfortunately there is no way of differentiating them. But the whole thrust of this incentive is to change public opinions to BF ( especially in public) and for a large sector of women who'd never consider BF to think about it and try.

However, as I said above, it can't be proved so it's a stupid idea.

Sorry for previous rant lying, naughty me Could you tell we had a few issues that a lactation consultant might have helped with ? I didn't even know they existed till I read this thread!

ie being paid is wrong (sorry wasn't clear)

How many other parts of health pregnancy and parenting decisions could be moneterised (sp?)

Aren't we in danger of confusing two issues here?

Women who dearly want to BF but had problems- ( hence all the personal stories here)and would welcome money being put into support?

And women who think BF is revolting in some way and would never even consider it?

It's the latter group who are being targeted and they are mainly poor, working class women. Not women who want to BF but can't..

Would families in poverty default to formula feeding if milk tokens didn't pay for the formula?

But someone already pointed out, it's something stupid like £12 a month that covers 1 tub of formula. They are like £9 a tub now.thats a huge chunk of a limited budget.

So money isn't why poorer families ff

As I said on the other thread about this, the comfort milk DD has is £11.99 a tin, she goes through over a tin a week, although if I did FF her from birth, I don't think they go through a tin a week then, so it'll average out over 6 months as approximately 26 tins if you FF from birth. That's £311.74 you'd save by BFing already. Could that number be flagged up to woman more if you think that money is a driving force?

I hate this idea. The money would be much better used on staff to help with breastfeeding on post natal wards, and possibly giving away nice fashionable breast feeding covers to young mums so they don't have to feel embarrassed feeding when they are out and about.

This scheme just discriminates against those who can't breastfeed and will add to the feelings of guilt when there is far too much emotional blackmail already. Most of the "facts" about the advantages of breastfeeding are based on bad statistics.

I'm with TikTok - the proof of the pudding and all that.

If this scheme increases the number of women breastfeeding in communities where it has almost died out as a practice (and there are places like this in the UK where you get generation after generation of families where NO mother has EVER breastfed), then it will be a very good thing.

"Knowing that I am doing what is best for my child's health, my health and the environment was all the encouragement I needed."

But clearly this is not enough to motivate huge swathes of women in particular communities in the UK.

And this report (below) sets out the cost savings to the UK and the NHS of just modest increases in breastfeeding, which suggests that this scheme might end up paying for itself:

unicef

Spend more on breadtfeeding support, and breastfeeding rates will go up.

My son lost too much weight even though I fed on demand, and we ended up back in hospital, and him screaming and refusing to latch. I was told that someone would observe me feeding and help - no one did. I gave him his first bottle of formula that night, and tried to mix feed. Three weeks later, exhausted and in pieces, I gave up pumping and used only formula. Even now I feel angry and sad about that whole time. In fact, I'm scared to even try to breastfeed again when Ds2 arrives. Vouchers would make no difference to me, I need actual support!

juggling I didn't say that I wasn't aware of the health benefits of breastfeeding. I said that I wasn't aware of any evidence proving that formula is harmful in some way. That's not the same thing. If the Government provided figures based on in-depth analysis that demonstrate unequivocally that babies who have been breast fed have done better than their formula-fed peers-SOLELY as a result of being breast fed then that's different.

I don't think that sort of information exists. Meanwhile many, if not the majority of babies do perfectly well on formula.

"Most of the "facts" about the advantages of breastfeeding are based on bad statistics."

That's a very bold statement. Do you know which studies the NHS bases its recommendations on infant feeding on? Would you be prepared to show you know which studies they are, and identify what you see as the problems?

The NHS has to make recommendations based on up to date, peer reviewed research which is considered to be of good quality. They don't just do what lots of people do on mumsnet do when it comes to discussing this issue: have a 30 second google and a brief read of the abstracts, or the Daily Express interpretation of the research.

They have panels of epidemiologists, doctors and infant feeding specialists comb through the evidence and the systematic reviews of the evidence in detail and discuss the way the studies are structured and followed up.

Is this something you've done before coming to the conclusion that the research into breastfeeding outcomes is worthless?

The nation is a bit short of money at the moment so may not be the best time for extra spending on something like this.

I would like breastfeeding painted in a better light. Example given of women who worked full time, express milk when they are working and breastfeed as I did happily and well. Examples of how pleasurable it can be for many of us once it is established. It is one of the fondest memories of my life - that process of holding the baby close and then the beta endorphin rush as the milk "lets down". It is lovely for many of us but I never see much in the press about that aspect at all.

ITV dramas at present have almost saturation hypnosis by advert about follow on milks, something no one ever needs because your baby feeds from you so won't ever need a follow on milk ever and yet that is force fed to us by advert day after day and virtually nothing on prime time advertising about breastfeeding.

I breastfed my DD until 12.5 months and plan to do the same for DC2 due in March. Why the bloody hell if they are only giving it to some people, shouldn't I get it too? I certainly won't count as a low income family but this isn't a benefit so shouldn't be means tested.

I was pretty angry when I heard this on the radio this morning.

biryani - "I didn't say that I wasn't aware of the health benefits of breastfeeding. I said that I wasn't aware of any evidence proving that formula is harmful in some way,That's not the same thing.

Er, yes, it is :) Exactly the same thing, in fact.

Breastfeeding reduces the risk of gasro-enteritis (to take just one example). Reduces compared to what? To formula feeding.
Formula feeding increases the risk of GE. Increases compared to what? To breastfeeding.

Formula feeding babies are at greater risk of GE than bf babies.

This does not mean that every ff baby will become ill - or that no bf babies get ill.

"If the Government provided figures based on in-depth analysis that demonstrate unequivocally that babies who have been breast fed have done better than their formula-fed peers-SOLELY as a result of being breast fed then that's different."

There are many, many studies (not from the government, particularly) showing exactly this. I can post references if you like, but people complain (ridiculusly) that 'you can prove anything with statistics'.

"I don't think that sort of information exists."

It does :) Bags of it.

"Meanwhile many, if not the majority of babies do perfectly well on formula." In the UK, this is true.

"That's not the same thing. If the Government provided figures based on in-depth analysis that demonstrate unequivocally that babies who have been breast fed have done better than their formula-fed peers-SOLELY as a result of being breast fed then that's different."

That is what the studies - which control for a wide range of demographic factors, plus smoking, seem to show.

I have two issues with this.

The first is that, despite me wanting to bf, and the lovely nurses in hospital giving me shedloads of advice and support, my milk didn't come in. At all. Poor DD had to have formula from day 4 (well, night 4) as she was losing weight and as I was expressing it was easy to see that my milk was declining. I was willing to BF for nothing but was still unable too, and I can see this voucher system maybe being unhelpful and possibly add to PND rates for women who have been unable to feed and see this is a massive failure.

Second thing is that there are already campaigns to try and get rid of the Bounty reps, and to try and reduce to direct marketing to women in hospital. If the government are endorsing certain companies with these vouchers this could surely lead more lobbying within hospitals & maternity units, not less.

I'm on the fence for the moment.

As someone else mentioned, they are aiming this at new mums who wouldn't even contemplate trying to breastfeed.

Part of my job is working as a receptionist in an antenatal clinic at a children's centre in a very deprived area. We have a small number of clients who only turn up for their antenatal appointments when they need to get healthy start voucher form signed and maternity grant. It would be interesting to see if they would contemplate breastfeeding for the vouchers.

Also how does it work if they are mixed feeding? How will they know if the mums are really breastfeeding? Will they need to visit a clinic every week?

I'll definitely be interested in reading the results.

Tiktok there are many studies stating that breastfeeding isn't always best too.

Stop the formula vouchers.
Spend the money from this, and the formula on
a) propper breastfeeding info up front.
b) getting EVERY shift in EVERY hospital an expert who can diagnose and divide tounge ties before discharge.

Think its personally a bonkers idea, but the above would have made a massive difference to me - and removing those 3 weeks of pain would have been worth way more than £200 (but Im not on benififts)

This is horrible. What about the women who would like to breastfeed but simply can't? Who's child won't latch on, and who gets made to feel AWFUL bu thte hospitals, midwives and health visitors.

There's everybody saying "you really should breastfeed you know if you want your baby to have the best" but there's not much saying "if you can't breastfeed, here are some other options".

Give the £200 to the women who CAN'T breastfeed in vouchers for them to buy a booby pump to help them give their baby breast milk even though they Can't latch on.

"As someone else mentioned, they are aiming this at new mums who wouldn't even contemplate trying to breastfeed."

Exactly!

"I'll definitely be interested in reading the results."

Me too! I love the idea of people trying breastfeeding who would never ordinarily try it. I wonder how it would make a difference to their experience of parenting their baby.

I've heard some really moving stories on mumsnet from women in exactly this situation, who somehow ended up breastfeeding despite not planning to, and despite them feeling very, very 'meh' about doing it during the pregnancy, (because of a lack of familiarity and acceptance of it in their communities). They said that it massively boosted their confidence as mothers, made them feel incredibly proud and self-sufficient, and that they found it a really great thing to do. I think if the scheme resulted in a number of mothers having this experience then it would be an amazing thing.

A while back - although not that long ago time-wise notguilty made a comment that she was really struggling to feed, especially at night, and that she thought the vouchers would really help her. I'm genuinely really interested to hear any more about this (or if anyone else is in the same boat) - is it just that you would feel like what you were doing was valued or would the idea of the money itself make you feel like battling on?