I know i shouldnt but...

[hercules]

A friend of mine has recently had a baby who lost a pound in weight. She was bf but baby wasnt latching on well . Their midwive told them to give formula and expressat the same time as well as giving tablets to increase her milk supply. They are now only giving formula and the midwive has cobgratulated them on having a happy baby. The baby is a week old and there are loads of allergies, excema, asthma etc in the family.
Now everyone thinks i am mad because I said they needed to speak to a bf counsellor and that breast was best etc. There were also told that the baby needs to get used to a bottle anyway as all babies need water!!!
I feel frustrated not cos they made a decision to bottle feed but because they made it with the wrong information. I cant understand why anyone would not explore all the options available and then make a decision whether it be to bottlefeed or breastfeed.
Rant over.

Hercules,

I went with my own decision and tried with DS.

He didn't latch at first, but then ouch he got the hang of it, he BF for 3 months before I had to stop due to work.

Never listen to advice!!!!!!!!!!!!

THe trouble is they think now they should never listen to my advice after me telling them not to listen to their mv.
cant bloody win

Do you think maybe your friend is saying that she was told to do this just to justify her own decisions.I`ve heard of health professionals giving naff advice but that sounds a bit ott and rather dodgy !
As for the tabs to increase milk supply-sounds like a million dollar invention !
I think your bang on with your thoughts.

I think it sounds like they had dodgy advice - babies don't need water if they are breast fed, getting the latch right should have been the priority, and giving bottles may have hindered this. BUT, if they are happy, then maybe they should just go with it now.

I think that they are relieved to be honestand seem much happier as parents now as the midwive has reassured them and i guess this is the most important thing. i just wish the help would have been more practical ie the latching on then they could have had a real choice.

I did tell a friend once that some midwives knew nothing about breastfeeding, and as I was bfing my 8 month old ds at the time she did believe me and got herself some fantastic advice and went with it. That was really rewarding.

Fresh from this success I tried to help another friend, but basically she just wanted to bottle feed but didn't want to admit it. She wanted a professional to tell her she couldn't do it. None would (as her baby had put on heaps of weight and was sleeping etc.) so she just said that they had anyway. We had the same midwife and I know that the midwife would not have said some of the things this girl said she said IYSWIM. Once I twigged she was basically making it all up (and yes she tried the water and bottle thing too)I felt a bit of an idiot for trying so earnestly to help her.

I have nothing against bottle feeders - it was her dishonesty and timewasting that soured the friendship.

I know a third mum who gave formula to her baby because "there is no history of allergies in my family" and then spent the rest of the mothers group talking about how bad her hayfever was!

It's not too late for her to relactate if she wants to - but it sounds as if she is happy to use formula. Hopefully she will be lucky with eczema etc.

motherearth there are tablets you can take to help increase blood supply, I had them, but can't remember what they were. They are only used in specific cases where a mother is having to express for a reason (prem baby or whatever) and cannot realy establish a decent supply as there is no baby to suckle and stimulate supply.

They are called Domperidone (Motilium)

Tell me about it!! Living in an expat community, I had all sorts of weird and wonderful theories being preached at me when it came to breastfeeding - some of which from non married, childless men!!! "Baby needs formula to tie him over until milk comes in". If he wasn't sleeping it would be because my milk wasn't sufficient. Add babyrice to expressed milk (at 3 weeks!!) to make him last longer between feeds etc etc. It's amazing how wise and convincing someone can sound when you are oblivious and how willing you are to accept what they are saying. Thank goodness I've got a fab mum, am stuborn as hell and have been round the block a few times, oowh - and the internet - best invention EVER!! Hercules, I guess all you can do is give the imformation to your friend and let her process it herself - you can leed a horse to water.....

I presume the baby is happy, the parents are too so what has it got to do with you. The last thing they need is you sticking your oar in and telling them they have made a mistake and that breast is best blah blah blah. Just let them get on with it. They've made the right decision for them. All my friends breastfed their babies and they are the sickliest lot I've ever seen.

You never have anything nice to say do you Trifle?

I have to say that I do kind of agree with Trifle. If they seem much happier (as you say) then is it worth risking upsetting them further and possibly making the mum feel guilty about it. Formula isn't the devil's work and baby will thrive on it. My DD was formula feed (mixed from 2 weeks, completely by 6 weeks) and she has never been a sickly baby and is thriving all the time.

Obviously I may have not read this right though - is the mum wanting to change her mind and go back to BF'ing?

I think as new parents they just need your support reagrdless now they have made their own decision (ragardless of how they made it).

Hope I haven't offended anyone here but people did try and make me feel guilty after I made what I felt was the best decision for me and my DD - not what you want when you have a new baby to learn to look after.

I wouldn't say anything to the parents. Like others have said, the decision is made and they are happy. Parents have enough to worry about. I agree the advise given was bad and would be concerned about that, but it's possible like someone has already said that you are geting the mother's version of the story. Generally I find that women who stop bf early on, tend to be quite sensitive about it and feel they have to justify their decision. Nothing better than saying their decision was based on professional advise.....

Fairymum - not being confrontational here but your last 2 sentences are a bit off really. I think mums who stop BF'ing early only feel they haev justify it is because of the comments from others, not because we are over sensitive. Besides I think ALL new mums are a bit emotional and sensitive about many things.

Oh, and I certainly didn't blame any health professionals for my decision; infact they were part of the guilt making trip for me I also don't know many mums at all who lied about the reasons for how they decided to feed their child - BF or formula.

I think it's not so much the breast vs bottle issue here, more they way the support system failed in this one instance possibly (I am sure it has failed for thousands more too), some women are more insistent on keeping breastfeeding, some are ok with bottle feeding, there is so much guilt bound in with motherhood, you makes your choices, you weigh up the risks and then on your head be it.
I'm a dedicated breastfeeder, but appreciate that I am lucky I found it easy and enjoyable, I would never personally assail anyone who chose different.

In my experience many woman who give up bf early are sensitive about it. I can understand that because as mothers we are sensitive about any decisions we make I think......I know I am. However, in the bf-debate I think many non-bf's tend to feel that any encouragement and people saying bf is the same as direct criticism against their choice.

I think it is true that some women who give up b/feeding early do feel that they have in some way failed. And if it is partly or largely down to dodgy advice from health professionals, then I guess it helps make some women feel better. But everyone is different. I mixed fed ds, and he was breast feeding till over a year (so I wasn't an early finisher), but I still felt very guilty that I wasn't able to fully meet his needs with breast milk, and I do blame nurses etc for dodgy advice.

Fairymum - I think we will have to agree to disagree as this isn't my experience at all. I have no problems with people who choise to BF or formula feed, and support anyone in whatever decisiont hey make regardless of reason. I know many people who are the same as me. But unfortunately I have been the victim of people making me guilty for not BF'ing longer - I didn't need preaching too about my own decision; I know the pros and cons all both options and feel that I am educated enough to make a decision that is right for me and my baby. I just wish others let me do that rather than thinking they had a right to tell me what I was doing was wrong - which is what I experienced at the time

Hercules, I think you may have to write this one off to experience. It doesn't sound like they were given very good advice, but also, maybe they weren't really wedded to the idea of bf either. Well done for trying - there are a lot of myths that circulate about bf (from midwives too, experience tells me) and it's worth trying to clear them up, but you can't, and shouldn't, try to make someone bf who doesn't want to. If they're first time parents, they may just be feeling overwhelmed by the experience (and who can blame them!), and there's so much information to absorb, this may just be one area where they don't want to struggle on.

I breastfed DD until she was 13 weeks when cause of my silly diet my milk dried up (now have saggy boobs but to balance that a beautiful healthy daughter) DD is not allergic to anything as far as I know where I was bottlefed and have loads of allergies - 2 serious ones too. I think its downto genetics as well as what you feed your kids though.

I would say just to give your advice but not to get too het up if it is not taken - they're not your kids afterall and if she listens to someone else no matter how stupid that person is that is her look out - we can't make everyone perfcet mums cause we aren't at the end of the day ourselves.

I told my cousin - 22 and 6.5 months gone that she should breastfeed but she said her mumhad problems with it - she is a single mum so I said as well as being great for the baby would be a hell of a lot cheaper than formula but no her answer was it makes her cringe and her mum had huge problems breastfeeding so in her wisdom (and we won't go there) she expecta to too!! Oh well I gave her the advice and if she wants to do what she wants to do there is nothing else I can do!!

Just hope that she makes the right decision.

As for the comments about some kids being a sickly lot - every child who I know is breastfed is far healthier than the ones that weren't - to a huge degree too!!

Hulababy, my point was only that perhaps the mother is not repeating the mid-wives words, but somewhat twisting them to explain her choice. It is very early to give up bf after only one week when it isn't even properly established. Perhaps that's right for some mothers, but I don't think it's good professional advise.

I agree she may have had bad advice Fairymum, but it is ultimately her decision and no one elses. I just don't think she'd appreciate being told that she has given up too early, that she made a wrong decision, etc. I just think she should now be given the same level of support from people that she would have got if she had chosen to continue BF'ing. But IME I doubt she will be

It wasn't that that bugged me, just the last couple of sentences originally about us being sensitive, etc. I just wanted say that we only get lik that because we are made to feel guilty so much. And I think it is unjustified criticism as it is NOT an easy decision to make whichever way you go.

But Twinkie - it is the woman's RIGHT to choose what is best for her - whether BF or fomula. It is no one else's right to tell what she should do. Advice if she wants you to but you shouldn't push your own opinions on anyone else.

If she is not happy with BF'ing that BF'ing is not the right decision. Baby will only be happy is mum is. And there is so much more to a baby's happiness and health than simply feeding alone. What about love, nuture, care, safe home, happy family life, healthy diet of mum, non smoking household, no drugs around, clean places to play and sleep, no neglect, etc. Surely many of these are just as importnat and some more so?

Yes, I know BF is nutrionally better for a baby but not always pschologically for mum (and therefore baby too). It has to be weighed upsurely. Formula is not the devil's work.

I know children who have been BF and formula fed and there is no difference IME of any differences between them. DH and BIL were completely bottle fed and have never had ANY problems in life - have no health issues, no allergies, no exzcema, etc. I was completely BF and have hay fever, psorasis, and heart problems. This is just one example of many I can cite. It is things like this that cause mums to feel so guilty unnecessarily.

I think I am going to bow out of this one now as I can feel all the old issues coming up. I only came in to say that I felt the mum just needs supporting in her choice not is is made. I don't want this thread turning into yet another BF v formula arguement.