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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

I know i shouldnt but...

72 replies

hercules · 19/02/2004 22:00

A friend of mine has recently had a baby who lost a pound in weight. She was bf but baby wasnt latching on well . Their midwive told them to give formula and expressat the same time as well as giving tablets to increase her milk supply. They are now only giving formula and the midwive has cobgratulated them on having a happy baby. The baby is a week old and there are loads of allergies, excema, asthma etc in the family.
Now everyone thinks i am mad because I said they needed to speak to a bf counsellor and that breast was best etc. There were also told that the baby needs to get used to a bottle anyway as all babies need water!!!
I feel frustrated not cos they made a decision to bottle feed but because they made it with the wrong information. I cant understand why anyone would not explore all the options available and then make a decision whether it be to bottlefeed or breastfeed.
Rant over.

OP posts:

mears · 20/02/2004 10:20

Hulababy - this is an age old debate that ends up with women on both sides feeling upset.
You are so right that it is what works for the individual woman. The benefits of breastfeeding are not there to make women fell guilty. The risks of bottle feeding are real and not there to make women feel guilty either.They are the facts and have to be known to make an informed choice. The risk of unhappiness and not being able to enjoy your baby can outweigh the potential risks of bottlefeeding. Bottle feeding does not mean that the baby WILL have problems. Breastfeeding does not mean baby WILL be healthier.
For me many breastfeeding problems arise because of lack of correct professional advice. Many practices in hospital contribute to mothers being unable to breastfeed. Some women just hate it. Breastfeeding should not be a trauma and unfortunately, for many women, that is the way it turns out. Compounded with lack of professional knowledge they are on a hiding to nothing.

FairyMum · 20/02/2004 10:22

Hulababy, I think on the whole we agree. I have friends who have not bf their babies and I believe that for most this has been the right decision for both mother and baby. I also know they find it hard because people do expect you to bf these days. I am not saying all mums are just being over-sensitive, but I think it is also a tendency to think that all encouragement for bf is the same as saing you are doing something wrong if you stop bf. I am for positive encouragement and SUPPORT for bf and not negative condemnation of the mums who choose not to.

mears · 20/02/2004 10:23

Hercules - your friend has made her choice - you should just leave it alone. You can let her know that she could establish breastfeeding if she want. If however she says she is happy with her choice then you need to respect that.

mears · 20/02/2004 10:23

mears · 20/02/2004 10:24

FairyMum · 20/02/2004 10:27

Hulababy,I agree it is not always psychologically benefical for a mother to bf. I sometimes think I would have been better off not bf DD when I had PND. Could have done with the extra sleep!

Hulababy · 20/02/2004 10:47

Thank you Mears - you put some of my points forward so much more eliquantly than I could have.

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 11:00

Interesting to see the way the discussion has gone. I never said that i would not support them nor would i ever try to push someone into breastfeeding!!
My concerns were that they were told that formula was the best thing and so bottlefed basing their decision on the wrong information.

If they had made a fully informed decision and decided that bottle feeding was the best thing in there situation than i would not be concerned at all. Happy mum = happy baby.

I would certainly never try to make them feel guilty because they have nothing to feel guilty for!!

And yes it may well be they are just saying that the mv said it was best though I dont know why they cant just sat that.
Now they and my mum think that me be is not good and i should be giving dd water as well.
It is not about breast v bottle but wrong information. Surely everyone is entitled to full information and proper advice.

OP posts:

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 11:02

btw i totally respect their decision and dont want anyone to think i dont.

OP posts:

IceCreamQueen · 20/02/2004 11:10

Children who are breastfed are healthier than bottle fed children to a 'huge degree'?

Absolute rubbish.

I've looked after loads of babies and it didn't make a bit of difference to their health how they were fed.

JJ · 20/02/2004 11:14

Hercules, I'm not getting into the debate, this is just something most people don't seem to know: there are guidelines on which formulas children should use if they have parents and/or siblings with allergies or asthma. If you'd like me to post them for you, it's not a problem. Although she'd probably have to convince her GP to prescribe them, as they cost a lot.

If you'd like to do something to help future mothers, maybe a short complaint to the head midwife (is there such a thing? I don't know the system well) would do. Mears can tell you if that's a bad idea.

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 11:18

icecream queen
i have to disagree with you on that. It is not me pushing my opinion but a fact that breast is better as long as the mother is happy with this of course.
i cant do links butwww.bbc.co.uk/health/nutrition/life_infant.shtml

OP posts:

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 11:20

this thread was not about breast v bottle but correct information.
Thanks jj but ive done my bit and i dont want them to think i dont respect their decision.

OP posts:

mears · 20/02/2004 11:48

Hercules - I know exactly where you are coming from. Is is extremely frustrating to hear some of the terrible ill informed information given out about B/F, expecially from professionals. The only thing is that you don't know what was actually said and perhpas your friend has put it like that to keep the pressure off her to continue to try. If she is asking for help to continue it is a different matter. It sounds though that she is probably happy with the decision she has made albeit it possibly on incorrect information. It is too late now to change that.

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 11:56

Well put mear.
I have no intention of mentioning this to them. This thread was never about bottle v breast.
Just wrong information although i now suspect people are right about them saying thats what the mv said.
I wished we did live in a society where they didsnt feel they had to do this as they have made the decision that is right for them.

OP posts:

IceCreamQueen · 20/02/2004 12:16

Hercules

I totally agree that 'breast is best' actually. Just not to that degree.

I was referring to Twinkie's statement.

I get really sick of people who were lucky enough to be able to breast feed their children, making wildly over-exaggerating statements like that.

I find it a really smug attitude, and how guilty is that going to make mothers who weren't able to BF?

I'm lucky, as I said, I'd looked after a lot of babies before I had my own and was able to make the decision to bottle feed without any guilt. I saw that BF and bottle fed babies picked up JUST as many illnesses as each other, and looked just as healthy.
Others aren't so confident and need to be aware of actual FACTS, not over-exaggerated rubbish like that. Yes, BF is good for babies, but let's not go over the top here.

kiwisbird · 20/02/2004 12:23

It's ok to feel smug about b/f its not ok to make others feel small and guilty because they didn't. Esp in case of those who had NO choice.

FairyMum · 20/02/2004 14:37

I agree with Kiwisbird, but icecreamqueen posts are exactly the kind of posts I am talking about. People who promote bf accused of being smug and over-exaggerated. "I looked after 2 children who picked up exactly the same illnesses.." Well, that's not very statistically interesting, is it?

Galaxy · 20/02/2004 14:50

message withdrawn

aloha · 20/02/2004 14:56

So it's OK to describe breastfed babies as 'sickly' but not to say (which is true) that breastfeeding has long term health advantages which we are discovering more about all the time? Of course, as Mears put it, not all breastfed babies will be healthy, and of course, not all bottlefed babies will have health problems, but it IS ill-informed to say that breastfeeding offers no health advantages - not just for babies and young children - but for the adults they will become.
I agree, misinformation is rife - we see it every day on the advice mothers get from HVs about breastfeeding and weaning etc.
I do suspect that Hercules's friend simply didn't want to breastfeed and was relieved to find a 'good' reason to stop and yes, that is her decision. If that isn' t the case, and she really wanted to breastfeed, then I do think it is sad that her efforts were sabotaged.

fisil · 20/02/2004 15:05

I really shouldn't get involved in this thread either, so I'll try and be good and make my one point and then bow out gracefully.

I agree that whatever decision is right for the woman, child and family is the right one. And I agree that the best gift you can give a woman and her family is good straightforward information. However, this information is usually delivered in words including the following two phrases:

"Best is Best" Of course it is. Our bodies do it automatically - it must be great. But it is incredibly difficult when making such an emotional decision to have people continually reminding us. Besides which, it is a much more complex decision than that. I knew that breast was best for my baby, but I knew that he needed cuddles from his mummy too, and I was just not physically capable of both because of the pain. Also, just consider this. An old family friend asked me very rudely whether I was feeding my son, when we finally established that I was feeding him, with formula, she told me "breast is best" She saw my brother at Xmas and asked the status of his university applications. He said he'd been rejected from Oxford, but was very excited about his Manchester offer. Did she say "Oxford is best"? Of course not, that would have been rude - but just as true as saying "breast is best"

"You just have to put up with the pain." I will not put up with the pain next time - and maybe I will then be able to breastfeed my second child. It was only after two weeks of friends, midwives & health visitors telling me this, that I thought to myself - I went through labour two weeks ago, and it didn't hurt anywhere near as much as this is hurting. If only someone had said "this is a natural process, there might be some discomfort but not too much; please ask lots of questions and I will attempt to give you honest advice, oh, and breast milk isn't pink or lumpy usually." I gave up when I was screaming in agony because I had simply bent over, ds was screaming with hunger and dp was shuttling between the two of us trying to calm at least one of us.

If I had never heard those two phrases the fact that I only managed to breastfeed for two weeks probably wouldn't still be such an issue to me (and I would have probably managed more than 2 weeks too!)

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 15:32

I agree that "breast is best" shouldnt be rammed down people who choose to bottle feed or cant breast feed throats. Breast is not best in every situation and you only need to look at threads on this web site to realise that.
However health wise it is best for baby although I agree with mears that if for whatever reason doesnt suit the mum any potential problems with bottlefeeding are not as bad as a mother breastfeeding when she is not 100 % okay with this.
It is wrong though not to present correct information to people who are thinking about what to do or who are not aware of the information. This is not to make them guilty but informed. I'm sure we'd all be furious at the goverment if they hid information from us about what was best for our health because it might offend some people.
This thread started out as a niggle at the mv and became something else.

OP posts:

IceCreamQueen · 20/02/2004 18:49

Now you see why I chose to express my honest views on what Twinkie said under another name.

If you dare to challenge any of the 'regulars' on this site, especially if you have the audacity to suggest that bottle-fed babies are just as healthy as BF ones, you get shot down in flames. So I'm speaking my mind, like I often really want to do under my usual name, under this name. It really bores me being false just to keep people happy.

"every child who I know is breastfed is far healthier than the ones that weren't - to a huge degree too!!"

That is CRAP. And I stand by that.

Yes, research has proved the long-term benefits of BF, and that it is far better if you have a family history of allergies to BF, etc, etc, we all know these things as they are widely promoted, rightly so, and often quoted on similar threads to these.

But the point I was making is that IN MY EXPERIENCE (don't want any statistics saddos jumping down my throat)you can't possibly say that BF babies are, in their infancy, showing any signs of being healthier.

And FairyMum, try to read through posts thoroughly before you attempt to attack them.
I wasn't accusing 'people who promote BF of being smug and over-exaggerating', specifically I was referring to Twinkie's comment, and that was SO over-exaggerated. Don't try to generalise my opinion to justify your attack. And as for my supposed comment "I looked after 2 children who picked up exactly the same illnesses.." - did I say 2 children? NO. I said I had looked after LOTS of children. And statistics didn't come into my post, it's my opinion, based on my experience, I'm not a scientist or a professor.

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 18:57

I didnt want to get into this type of debate but..
This link from unicef is not meant to make anyone guilty nor is it statistics - just a few figures

www.babyfriendly.org.uk/finance.asp

OP posts:

Original poster

hercules · 20/02/2004 19:11

and this

www.bbc.co.uk/health/nutrition/life_infant.shtml

not put here to defend anyone nor to criticise anyones decision just trying to give correct info not my opinion.

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