Most people don't breast feed do they?

[ElBombero]

Or do they?

As a mum do a DS who is EBF I am just utterly amazed at the reaction to me feeding him. It's like I'm mental.

Lost count of the times I've been told / asked
Is he getting enough? He's using you for comfort? Maybe a bottle of formula at night to help him settle, or and latest from MIL after DS put on 11oz in one week...

". Do you think BM is enough for him? He's growing so much..."
Errr yeah he's growing so well cos of the BZm

Crazy afaik there are no official surveys of this - in international and national surveys (eg the UK Infant Feeding Survey) these babies are classed as exclusively breastfed. The international definitions of 'breastfed' would also classify these babies as excl breastfed.

You might find some smaller surveys which differentiate but I have not come across them.

I'm still surprised at the ignorance of some HCPs, even very newly qualified ones. DS became poorly after birth and was admitted to NICU, he was 3 days old and we'd made a good start bf, although my milk was only just starting to come in. NICU sister said he was only comfort sucking and needed formula

Also more recently, a trainee HV said that 14 month DS was only 'comfort feeding' and that my milk wasn't of adequate nutritional value. If he wasn't getting breast milk he'd need cow's milk, so I just don't understand the logic of that.

In my own highly scientific study I was on a busy post-natal ward for 7 days after the birth of DS. 8 bed ward, I think I saw about 30 mums come in over that time. I was struck by just how many new mothers wanted to breast feed, but the lack of breastfeeding support (especially overnight) meant that many mothers, by the morning, asked for formula.

It's so tough after birth, struggling with lack of sleep, pain, roller coasting emotions and the weight of responsibility. And dad gets sent home overnight, staffing is down to a bare minimum. And we know how crucial those first hours are to establish breastfeeding. Saddest was the women who'd had c-sections, who couldn't physically get to their crying babies.

(I wasn't being nosy honest, small ward, sister didn't allow curtains during the day and anyway you can hear everything that goes on, even with them closed)

My friend is BFing now. Her LO is almost 2 weeks old. During a particular tough couple of days of her LO staying put on the boob for a lot of the day, she has been told the following things by health professionals (also friends who know best but backed up by the health professionals comments)
a) baby is comfort feeding - this is the biggest reason for the baby staying on her breast for longer than 20 mins! not hunger! or learning to latch correctly and feed, not that her milk had just come in and baby was getting used to it, comfort!
b) get a dummy
c) get your DH to bottle feed to give you a break (although expressing was suggested)

All this before the baby was a week old.

I am waiting for my friend to start doubting her ability to produce enough milk to meet her baby's demands.

I do know a few people who breastfed their baby, and only one person who fed from a bottle immediately, but most of those who nursed their baby themselves lasted much less than 6 months, ranging from a week or two to a couple of months. A couple fed for 6 months, I only know one person who did extended breastfeeding (apart from me - most people thought I was nuts, and continually questioned why I hadn't stopped already).

I meant to add, I think the understanding of the HV and their own personal advocacy of BF is of significant importance in supporting new mothers in breastfeeding; it's not easy (well, it is part of having a newborn, of course it isn't!) and it is not always something that mum and baby know how to do immediately so involves the new mum realising that it not working out immediately is ok. And, that baby does not need milk instantly, hence it taking a little time for the milk to come in.

I actually felt quite lucky that I needed to stay in hospital for a week following the birth of my DD. She was a little small at birth but perfectly healthy, but we stayed in transitional care where the midwives were amazing. I found it hard to get DD to latch well, felt embarrassed that I could not do it, and I was given so much physical, practical and emotional support that by the time I left, I was super confident in what I was doing. Every time I had a little wobble, I pressed my buzzer and a midwife was there, guiding me, day and night. Although I was initially encouraged to top-up to improve her weight quickly and to get her sugars stable I was never ever encouraged to stop feeding her myself, it was never suggested. And I am sure that make a huge huge difference to how I felt feeding my DD. I fed her until 10 months, and fed DS until 16 months because of that experience.

Live in a nice area of what's classed as a deprived area. Despite that its about 50/50 here. Families also tend to stay in the same areas and villages too, with grandmothers, cousins etc more often within walking distance, so maybe bf expectation and knowledge is passed down. Among certain parts of the community, mainly young mums in the poorer areas, its considered a badge of honour as sorts to just pop babies out in a home birth, and then breast feed them. Feeding a very young baby with a bottle would definitely raise some eyebrows, as I found out when I bottle fed DD1. I bf dd2 til she was a toddler with no second glances at all.

The initiation rates are fairly high now (although in some areas just going onto the breast once counts as BF initiated). The drop off rate between 1 and 3 weeks is very high and by the time they get to 6 months the rate is very low.

When I gave birth to my last baby the HV did bring a list of local breastfeeding clinics/support groups. However she picked out two (one run by NCT and the other LLL) and suggested I went to the HVs ones instead of these as HVs ones were more balanced in her opinion.

As it happens I could only get to the HV one and it was less of a support group and had more of a 1:1 social services appointment, where my tears at her incompetence and lack of help wrt tt was diagnosed by her as possible PND.

Bunnychan - that does sound crap.
Maybe as a teacher, you'll be able to do a lot of your marking and prep at home, so you can do work while you feed.
you might even find ways to reduce the amount of time you're out of the house, and you might even be able to express in the evenings for the next day. (reducing time out of the house might mean only one meal needs to be without you)
I found it a lot easier to express when I had just finished a feed, because my boobs were already working iyswim.
I did try to express when i was in the middle of a feed, but by that point, she was wriggling around a lot and kept kicking the bowl!

yes, our postnatal ward was quite good for support.
they actually had a policy that the hospital would not supply formula but you had to bring your own if you wanted to use it.
and they asked you if you intended to breastfeed, encouraged it, made sure you knew about skin-to-skin, encouraged you holding your baby rather than putting it in the (bedside) cot.
there was always a lot of staff around, even at night.
they talked mums through latching (without grabbing hold of boobs and saying "here, that's a latch")
and reassured me when I was panicking it wasn't right (that i would be successful).

but after discharge, nothing in support that you didn't have to seek out.
only comments from MW visiting was "are you bfing?"

My hospital was amazing too. If you wanted to bf you could stay as long as you wanted to make sure it was properly established and dh stayed to (all new mums have their own rooms postnatally.

WoT official definition is that 'initiation' is this:

"the mother is defined as having initiated breastfeeding if, within the first 48 hours of birth, either she puts the baby to the breast or the baby is given any of the mothers breast milk

You can see a glossary of terms if you get this PDF

www.nice.org.uk/niceMedia/pdf/EAB_Breastfeeding_final_version.pdf?

This is (or should be) the definition everywhere, so when stats for initiation are collected, they can be compared, 'cos it's important we are comparing the same thing.

With DD I had a section so was in hospital Thur-Sat. None of our feeds were observed. I think they just assumed that as a second time BFer I'd know if there was a problem. IMO that's something that needs to change. All babies should be observed feeding by someone who knows what they're talking about.

I really wanted to BF. Had my lovely baby boy via ELCS 3 weeks ago. ELCS didn't go to plan & my blood pressure was all over the place which resulted in me having very little recollection of the first day. By the end of day 2 I had no milk & had very little support from any staff on the ward. All of this has resulted in DS being unable to latch despite numerous midwives trying & 2 appointments with a BF counsellor. I've been expressing but keep getting mastitis. Last week I was in such a mess I cried uncontrollably for about 3 hours. Formula saved me from slipping closer to PND. I'm now expressing & using formula for 2 feeds a day.

If the NHS really want to increase BF numbers then midwives & maternity ward staff need to be more consistent with their advice. I was given so many different messages.

yes, that's exactly the problem - they really aren't given proper training, and the advice is spurious or out of date.
or just isn't there at all. (lack of staff time doesn't help)

you didn't fail, you were failed by the system.

it's great that you've been able to keep expressing.
do look at videos on the best way to express to prevent mastitis.
nipple shields might help with latch if your baby is now used to bottles.

and congratulations on your baby

Thanks Nickle what a lovely post. I do feel like I've been let down. Thanks for the advice re online videos - am going to have a look right now.

yes, thanks Tiktok, I know :)

I think my hospital where I work our initiation rate is about 90% most months. I need to look into what it is when mums are discharged from our care

Nationally though I think by 4-6 weeks it's really low. Like 40%. I've my own theories on this but so as not to bore anyone I'll just say I think its down to not being prepared antenatally and also support. I'm working on the education part, but it's really really difficult.

Many HCPs really don't have a clue. I took ds for his first jabs at 13 months (usually given at 6 weeks) and the nurse had a tick box and asked me if I was exclusively breastfeeding.

I looked at her like this but she didn't understand and continued to wait for her answer.

When I replied I wasn't she ticked the box for no and that was that.

Incidentally I was ebfing until 6 months.

flat I'd love to hear your theories. I bet they aren't boring at all.

What else is mn for if not to air your opinions and test your theories

I recall antenatelly being asked if I intended to bf but then not given any information on how to do it. I didn't realise it wouldn't just happen and nobody thought to mention the possible problems. I only had the nhs classes and there was no information. I learnt how to bathe a baby - but not feed one!

I'm sure I would be ebf rather than mix feeding my ds now if I had known about latching and positioning etc

I'm exclusively bfing my DD who is 7 weeks tomorrow. I found the first 2-3 weeks v hard - didn't realise how much it would hurt etc but I have to say I found the breastfeeding peer support in my area (north london) excellent and far beyond what I expected. It is NHS funded, there was a helpline I called a number of times open daily, and another number for weekends and a drop in clinic at a different children's centre each day of the week. Without that support I don't think I would have continued past the first few weeks, but I am so glad I did. Things have been so much easier in this second month. I really think a lot comes down to support over those first few weeks, as others have said. As soon as I had the baby my hospital got me doing the whole skin to skin and the midwife asked if I was planning to bf. I said yes and she helped me get DD latched on for the first time. On the postnatal ward however I got very little attention/help and the first midwife I saw at home wasn't very encouraging, but the local support was great. Looking at the 8 of us in my NCT group, 4 of us are bfing. Will be interesting to see if we still are in a few months time, I hope to but am just starting to try and get DD to take a bottle of expressed milk once a day to get her used to bottles so I can go out once in a while! That's the only downside of bfing for me - you are rather tied to the baby unless you express. I don't mind now while DD is so small but it would be nice to have some flexibility down the road. Current plan is to bfeed for 6 months then start weaning. Will see how it goes.

I think it depends where you live. In my city most people who can do.

I mostly know ebf mums! Extended bf too. But then, I go to Baby Cafe and LLL...

I fed my daughter to 15 months (badly timed nursing strike, :() and am happily feeding my 8 week old son; even got a high five for feeding him in the moby wrap in Sainsbury's this morning!

I've found that all my friends who have stopped breastfeeding have had incredible pressure from their mum or MIL and have found it easier to stop than constantly be harassed by them :(
I fed DS until almost 2 and a half and am currently feeding dd who is 6 days old. With DS I fed through undiagnosed posterior TT and it was honestly a painful nightmare; it was agony at the start and end of every feed, I had to hold him in latch and hold my breast as well for the whole feed. But I was damned if I was going to stop. Then suddenly it stopped hurting (but I still had to hold him and my breast for every feed until we stopped!).

Dd has so far been much easier; I've been pedantic with regards to getting the latch correct and although the last few days have been difficult due to breast engorgement and tiny mouth incompatibility(!) I can see light at the end of the tunnel.

But my mum or DP wouldn't dream of undermining my choice or not supporting BFing. MIL mentioned it occasionally but got told to do one pretty sharply....

Thanks Tiktok
I often hear of a lack of support for breastfeeding but I can tell you from experience at nearly 8 months of EE that there is no support for EE.
"Get a pump, off you go." Great.