Most people don't breast feed do they?

[ElBombero]

Or do they?

As a mum do a DS who is EBF I am just utterly amazed at the reaction to me feeding him. It's like I'm mental.

Lost count of the times I've been told / asked
Is he getting enough? He's using you for comfort? Maybe a bottle of formula at night to help him settle, or and latest from MIL after DS put on 11oz in one week...

". Do you think BM is enough for him? He's growing so much..."
Errr yeah he's growing so well cos of the BZm

[nickelbabe]

Pato - I wish I lived in a university town. most of the people who live in this town have always lived here, iyswim (if you leave, you tend not to come back)

it makes me wonder why that woman even asked you how you'd be feeding your baby, if the answer of BFing would offend so much!

my mum didn't BF (well, apparently she did a little bit, but "it didn't work" and this was an important statement because the vicar's wife really encouraged her breastfeeding, but things were different then (and it appears I have a tongue-tie, so I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have helped - she wouldn't have known this, I've only just found out myself) - there was a huge change to convenience foods and clothing/nappies etc, which meant that if formula was readily available, the next best thing, and cheap enough for most people to afford, then why struggle on with the problems? and of course, the NHS at that time had started to become more medicalised, and they also were most likely brainwashed that formula was the best thing for mothers.
neither of my sisters BFed their (5 between them) babies, but I never thought to do anything else. my little sister expressed for her first because he was in NICU, but the whole experience put her off and she didn't attempt it with the other 2.

[MoneyMug]

I don't know a single person that bf apart from my own mum. People think I'm absolutely mental for bfing. I bf my 2 month old and 2 year old but no one knows I still bf the 2 year old.

I think it's also an age thing. I'm 22 and everyone my age who have children, intended to ff from birth. The older people I know with children, intended to bf but switched to ff within a few days/weeks.

I remember reading somewhere that most people ff by 6 weeks. I wish I knew someone that bf. I hate telling people when they ask. But as the 2 month old needs regular feeds, I can't really hide it.

[MirandaGoshawk]

I think that bottlefeeding is a long-standing cultural thing in the UK & it's going to take a long time to 'normalise' breastfeeding, sadly. In no particular order: firstly, a lot of what we see is on TV or films, and there, an actress will be sitting with a baby with a bottle. So this looks normal. Secondly I believe that some men feel threatened by successful women, and in fact women in general, and they like to discourage breastfeeding. Thirdly, several generations of the upper classes were brought up to believe that BF was 'not nice' and therefore that 'nice girls' didn't do it. Fourthly, with the pressure on women to return to work, or the desire/pressure from their partners to involve them, it's damn easier to get DH up in the night with a bottle than to take on all the feeding duties yourself. Breastfeeding doesn't easily fit into the modern Western lifestyle for many people.

[MirandaGoshawk]

BTW I breastfed my twins & loved it. Such a shame that women and their babies miss out on this wonderful experience.

[Taffeta]

I BF mine for 8 months each. Stopped when they started biting.

It's not a big deal round here ( SE ) but I guess I chose to live here as it is generally a friendly community ,not so much oneupmanship.

I tend to get more riled by people that imply that mothers that FF "give up easily" when they don't know the facts.

[enormouse]

Cultural attitudes do differ quite a bit.
In the mostly middle class, white village in northern Ireland I live in now I was encouraged and supported a lot and ended up ebfing DS till he was 14 months and intend to do the same with DS2.
But I remember a few years ago my Indian granny and DM telling my SIL not to bf her twins as it was 'peasanty' and people would assume they couldn't afford formula.

[Bunnychan]

A lot of people I know tried best feeding & gave up quickly. My SILs both tried & were convinced they weren't making enough milk as they tried expressing & very little came out. They were my first real experiences of bfing but when I fell pregnant, I developed a stubborn determination to succeed and god did I struggle at first. I remained determined and sought so much help but I'm so glad I did. However, my SIL think ff is the answer to any problem I have and everyone else is surprised I'm still going at 19 weeks. Sad thing is I am actually going to move onto mixed feeding soon because I'm returning to work. If I was a sahm, I would love to continue ebfing.

[NotCitrus]

I found even in my hippyish over-educated London social circle, while all my friends tried bf, many found it too hard even with whatever help they could scrape up (quite a few got to 6 weeks in pain and then stopped), but what's been really interesting is how many people ask me "aren't you worried about people making comments/ don't you get people making stupid comments in public" - they are of course 100% supportive of bf or whatever is needed to get food into a baby, it's all those other bystanders they're worried about.

To be fair, having never even noticed bf happening in my life until a few months before I gave birth, I had been worried about people commenting and staring, until ending up with me and ds in a crowded GP waiting room and he was screamingly hungry. However awkward I was getting him latched on, the result was certainly much less staring and judginess than before. I think it'll take another couple generations to really increase bf rates - ds will see it as normal, and hopefully by then there will be more of a critical mass of both professionals and friends/family to advise on getting it to work. Currently there isn't - even in London I was travelling up to 2 hours to get to a bf group after being told I couldn't see the hospital bf adviser for four weeks!

As my antenatal teacher said, almost everyone can bf with the right support - but the right support means you've seen a baby bfing on average a couple times a day, every day of your life. We're nowhere near that!

I was lucky - had terrible time with latch and thrush and medical issues, stopped feeding for a couple days around 6 weeks, but then it was great with ds. Conversely dd was easy until 8 months when she became violent hellspawn and I've been wanting to quit for the last year (except in the middle of the night when it's the easiest option...)

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I'm bfing my 3rd tt baby and this one also has lip tie, now 15months.

I can't say I've noticed odd looks but that is possibly because my eldest has ASD and I've developed the hide of a Rhino.

I went to see a LLL BFing Counsellor recently about the tongue and lip tie at a feeding group and she thanked me for coming in as it's great for the new mothers to see a feeding toddler.

She also thanked me for bringing ds in as she'd not seen a mouth like his before.

Gave me some information which on investigation means I have to find £400 to sort out his mouth which will take us several months to save up for if we have no emergencies.

So, painful breastfeeding and tooth dents in my nipple it is then

[juneau]

AntoinetteCosway My point wasn't to bash women who can't BF, but to point out that lots of people who claim they can't, actually could if a) they wanted to or b) they had the right support. If all the women who claim they couldn't BF really genuinely could not, then our species would've died out. But there have always been a tiny minority who can't and presumably you are one of them.

I think a lot of women feel that it's better say they 'can't' rather than they encountered problems and weren't enjoying it so chose to FF, or never wanted to try, both of which are entirely their choice. It's a shame that so many feel they have to justify their choice not to BF IMO, but all these women saying they can't is misleading. In Sweden something like 99% of women BF, so in cultures where this is the norm it's clear that almost everyone can if they want to and if they're given the right support.

[cogitosum]

The London rates could be high because of high Muslim population. Apparently the Koran states that babies have a right to breastmilk and women are expected to bf if there are no health issues. I bf ds and when some friends who are Muslims came round to visit him they commented as they find western women don't BF as much.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Often affluent families in the SE are affluent because both parents work, or the mother works in a job that requires long hours/not leaving the workplace for many months.

In addition, Mothers are likely to be older and a bit more 'set in their ways' and worked hard to set up their lives where they good control over them.

It is difficult for some of them to bring the unpredictability and demands of a breastfed baby into the mix, particularly in male dominated, competitive careers or values.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I think the word 'support' is very misleading tbh.

It often implies a value judgement that all a woman needs to do is make sure she seeks the right support or finds it. In reality, our culture and societal attitudes are not supportive and however much a woman might seek it it just isn't there.

What I mean about support is embedded cultural values more than anything, and the mother-baby dyad just isn't a priority for the way we run our economy.

[PatoBanton]

I think the only reason I was so determined to do it was that my mother told me I could, should, would do it. And also it seemed right to - like my body was expecting to, right from conception so who was I to try and put a spanner in that process, iyswim?

I don't remember her ever saying so. Not directly - but she often told me that she had fed my sister for 10 months and me for only 10 days, and felt that we never bonded because of it and so, I suppose the message sunk in somehow. And luckily I could do it and found it suited my lifestyle.

A lot of people will not have that kind of family background (Mum did her degree in child psych and was hot on attachment theory etc) so to them it will just be what their Mum thought was best.

[nickelbabe]

bunnychan - are you going back at 6 months?
anyway, you don't need to go to mixed feeding - if you are able to express (even small amounts at a time), spend lots of time now building up a stash for the freezer.
then when you go back to work, they have to allow you space to express (and breaks to do so), and somewhere to store your milk during the day.
expressing will help your supply during the day.
and you can also cluster feed at night/ in the evenings once you are working. some babies will hold on for the time you're out at work if the milk isn't there, but if you can express and freeze it, then you'll be able to continue much longer.

[nickelbabe]

Starlight - you're so right.
there just isn't the infastructure of help.
like you having to find £400 out of thin air to have a medical procedure done - that kind of thing should be freely available on the NHS (or through insurance if not in the UK), but the assumption is because formula is available, why should they provide the correct procedure?

it's insane.
it's not just breastfeeding that's affected by tongue or lip tie, it's speech, eating through life and dental care.
i have a tongue tie, and at 37, it's not going to get fixed.
i can't eat an ice cream without it hurting my tongue! (the licking pulls at my frenulum and hurts) and i can't clean my back teeth with my tongue.
other people can't sound certain words properly or move food around their mouths.
all because the medical profession don't understand how important it is.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Yes. That is the kind of support I need right now. The health system and our country to acknowledge that our continued breastfeeding relationship is worth £400, or possibly less if they can invest in consultants to do the necessary procedures more widely so those currently don't have a market niche.

DS is 15 months, well below the WHO recommended age for continued breastfeeding.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

In our area we have one surgeon who is able to carry out tongue tie procedure on the NHS - along with the rest of his workload. He is increasing the size of his clinic as much as he can but still can't meet demand.

Unfortunately the MWs (although willing) cannot be trained to snip simple tongue tie (freeing up the surgeon to cope with more complex conditions) because there isn't a single NHS accredited qualification for doing tongue tie anywhere in the UK.

If anybody knows where their local NHS staff receive accredited training, please let me know because I find this quite mind-boggling if true.

[ElBombero]

Aww moneymug you shouldn't be ashamed you should answer them and be proud. I'm sure deep down they will be envious

[Bunnychan]

nickel LO will be 5 1/2 months when I go back. I'm a teacher and find my days very long & full on. I went in on a kit day in September & expressed during my breaks but it took forever. I think I'll get too stressed trying to express enough feeds at work. I have about 20 bags of frozen milk so she'll still get some breast milk & I intend to bf as much as possible when I'm at home. Sadly and I know this another kettle of fish, I feel uncomfortable expressing at work- despite working with mainly women. I think that would be more taboo than Breastfeeding at work lol! I will check out the links tho! X

[mymatemax]

I think most start off bfeeding, at our maternity hospital bottles are not offered or available you have to beg to bottle feed your baby.

How long it continues varies hugely but I know a number who have continued for many months, not many beyond the first yr

[HorryIsUpduffed]

I've never been officially asked beyond 6w whether I'm bf my baby, so I have absolutely NFI where they get their data from for breastfeeding rates. And that 6w question is about ebf, not "bf at all".

I think if the "bf at all" (ie ebf plus mixed feeding) rates were known, bfing women would feel in less of a minority.

[JollyScaryGiant]

DS has a lip tie. I only noticed it after I stopped bfing him at 20mos. I don't know if it caused our issues with BF, but it can't have helped. Is it something I should be showing a GP or is it not an issue? He's only 2.5 so obviously I have little idea if it is affecting his speech or not.

[CrazySexyCool123]

Does anyone know where I can find stats for no. of mums who just bottle feed breast milk (exclusive expressing)?

[MissPlumBroughtALadder]

ElBombero I'm in Bristol - actually a particular part which is an interesting combo of middle class and hippyish! Very rare to see a bottle fed baby here, and I am certainly not alone in publicly feeding a toddler.