5day old newborn screaming unconsolably

[monniemae]

My baby seems fine in the day, but she's having an increasing number of sporadic, hysterical, uncobtrollable screaming starting in the evening through till 2 or 3am. I can't calm her at all. My partner can eventually...

He thinks it's normal for a baby but I'm sure something's wrong that we haven't figured out. I thought maybe we were letting her get too hungry as she roots a bit and cries but even when I tried offering the breast earlier and earlier to pre-crying cues, she kind of frenziedly roots for it but screams, won't latch, arches her back right off and away from it and screams horrifically. Sometimes for an hour or two.

Any ideas? My milk only came in today / last night. I've spent today trying to make sure she gets the hind milk but tbh my tits feel rock hard even after a massive feed.

She is calm and asleep now in sling with partner. But she is definitely hungry (I think; he thinks if she was hungry she'd feed) and if I wake her or wait for her to stir and offer breast again the whole cycle restarts...

'while risking the simplest explanation and 'cure' ' = while risking missing the simplest explanation and 'cure'

Tiktok I know you mean the very best in your post but it has upset me a little bit.

The thing is I'm one of the most attachment-based parents I know, I think - see all my posts EVER on co sleeping, breastfeeding (which I did with ds2 till he was 4 and a half) and controlled crying etc etc.
I always always put the baby first if I possibly can, and spent hours and hours just sitting and lying with the baby, often in bed, didn't do much else (well we had to do the school run but apart from that, nothing got done) and I did everything I could possibly think of to try and tune in with him, held him 24/7 actually (even while pushing the redundant pram home with one hand, stopped to breastfeed crouching in doorways in rainy, cold streets in January, literally everything was done around what he wanted and needed.
He cried and cried and cried.

I guess it is the first thing to recommend. But I feel a bit sad at the tone of your post suggesting that people don't think of just holding and comforting the baby. Maybe some people don't.

I don't think it's that people don't think of holding/feeding/comforting the baby - more that there is an idea that babies should feed once every 3 hours and then lie in a basket, and when they don't it's easy to think that something is wrong with the baby, rather than wrong with societies expectations of baby behaviour. There are so many threads in this forum from mothers who are worried they don't have enough milk because their baby wants to feed all evening, or concerned the baby is ill because it cries whenever it is put down.

That's not to say that some babies don't suffer with wind, reflux, allergies etc. But most don't, most of just exhibiting normal baby behaviour. I think if you have had an awful experience with a baby who did have something wrong, it is easier to see your experience in other people.

Rooners, sorry my post was upsetting :( It was not 'about' you, and not even written with you in mind :)

I can promise you many people either i) really, really don't think of holding and comforting the baby or ii) they think of doing so but worry that it is wrong/baby will learn bad habits/unnecessary/means the baby has something wrong with him or her

Actually, it is a bit upsetting that in our society comfort and closeness and just 'being with' the baby can be undervalued. Parents take on board the idea that breastfeeding is solely food and drink, and as such, should be restricted to arbitrary times and frequencies. Even when parents know enough to challenge this, the sheer neediness of a young baby to be close and in contact can be underestimated, and the power of this need can be overwhelming.

Sorry, just to add to that, Rooners, I am not talking about experiences like yours with a baby beyond the newborn stage - some babies are really, really needy and cry a lot no matter what the parents do, and of course with those babies, we leave no stone unturned to try to resolve the situation and to help the baby be comfortable, calm and happy instead of screaming. That's when all the stuff about diet, reflux, colic, wind, mum avoiding coffee, changing her washing powder, or whatever, can come in, methodically and carefully (not as a scatter gun approach where 12 things are tried all at once!).

I was focussing on tiny, new babies like the OP's - a few days old.

You read my post and those difficult memories came back to you, about how helpless you felt and how desperate you were to help your baby's helplessness....and I think you read some sort of judgement of you in my post? It was imagined, believe me :)

Rooners - when I had DS1 I had no idea about babies really, and I was using GF routines. I imagine that Tiktok's comments are aimed at people like me rather than people like you.

Also had colicky baby, try reading baby whisperer, really helped us.

Def recommend feeding support group.

We sometimes used to take his nappy off and lie on changing mat if he was awake, baby bouncer / walk up and down stairs. It is really hard work but hang in there as it will pass. Rocking motion in dark quiet room, swaddle.

BF is really hard work, with my second child just basically feed all the time at the start and she was ok, just till you get the hang of things and your nipples get used to it. If you can feed more during the day it seems easier at night.

I think it may be hunger or wind... I had terrible problems as my milk didn't come through properly until day 6 with dd and she was hungry so I cup fed her tiny amounts of formula at night on advice from midwife until my milk was enough. The screaming stopped and she slept for the first time for 2-3 hours! She had been starving poor thing! But she also had colic a a couple of weeks on, so it could be wind. Make sure to burp the wee thing too. I found the baby in the tree pose, or right over the shoulder or sitting baby over your hand supporting head was really good for this. Also some people may not advocate this but you can use Infacol from birth. I would go to a bfeeding clinic and they can help you with latch etc if your milk is now in?

If your boobs are rock hard it can make it difficult for her to latch on. Try hand expressing a bit before a feed so your boob is a bit "deflated"

Just popping back to say we had a much better night, no more screaming, I feel a lot more confident as a result. Thanks to everyone for advice, midwife is coming today so will get latch checked etc. But mainly will hang out w baby and keep trying to figure out how to stop things escalating.

That sounds like a good plan, OP :)

My milk only came in today / last night.

This is why she is crying. Once she latches she will hopefully be fine.

Good luck OP x

Tiktok (and Cornflakegirl) thankyou.

I know it wasn't about me or aimed at me but I still felt a bit judged. I am talking about when he was a newborn baby. (in January)

Sorry if that wasn't clear. That was when he cried so much - right from the first day, and I couldn't understand it, because I literally spent all the time holding the poor little moppet. It was only when he was about a month old that he dramatically lessened his crying.

It was a hellish month for him - less so for me, I'm sure, but it was tricky logistically with no help really and two older ones to manage.

Anyway, as you said, it isn't about me and I don't want to hijack.

It is really sad to think that people don't automatically just take their baby up to them and walk around with it/sit around with it, just giving it every ounce of attention it could need. I explained to the older ones that he wasn't more important but he was more urgent and he could not wait; they know they had their turn at being the priority!

Rooners, love that explanation....not more 'important' but more 'urgent'. Spot on :)

Have you had a chance yet to talk to someone who will listen and not judge about that horrendous first month? January is not long ago - it's unsurprising it still feels raw. You know in your head you did not need to feel judged - my post was not about you or even connected with you, it was a general post with any specifics directed at the OP's situation only....and yet you felt upset and judged by it :(

What happened to you in that first month was a major event and I wonder if you are still sad for your baby, too? The great thing is your baby has recovered and he will not even have the ghost of a memory of the experience....your love has fixed this :)

Thanks Tik...tbh I am having a bit of a difficult time with it all right now, not to do with babykins but everything else I suppose! and I do worry for him still that he suffered and I couldn't do anything for him no matter how hard I tried.

I guess it is something I have to let go. As you say he has now learned that he is safe and noting hurts any more, whatever it was is gone and he is a happy little fellow. I hope he won't remember it!

Thanks for being kind x

Rooners, what you are feeling is similar to what parents of babies who have been in NICU/SCBU experience....sadness at not being able to do anything about something that is jeopardising their little one's safety and happiness. This does not always go away once the baby is safe, healthy and happy. That fear and anxiety and sometimes hypervigilance hang about :(

Some people find that 'letting go' of this happens with time. Some people bury it so deep inside they are unaware of it (consciously). Some people recognise it and rationalise it away. Others benefit from counselling or other talking therapy, or they write poems, or they keep a private journal which helps them reflect and then 'let go'.

There's interesting research on this. It is a real phenomenon, not often voiced.

I'm sorry to anyone who has gone through these issues.

As someone who also has, I'm a bit about suggestions it's a lack of bonding issue. My baby suffered severe reflux and when a baby is in that much pain, all the cuddles in the world don't help.

We were continually fobbed off "oh it's just colic" etc and it was when our baby vomited blood and became sleepy through lack of fluid that action was taken. (Not to mention weight loss).

I remember those horrendous weeks well and if someone had told me I just needed to cuddle my baby more, it would have tipped me over the edge!!

Incessant screaming in very young babies is IMHO pain or hunger.

I do believe that reflux is greatly affected by diet, although perhaps not fizzy water, but it is a nightmare trying to work out what. The Germans recommend no stone fruit or cruciferous veg for the first six weeks as a result.

OP - great your milk is in and I hope things keep improving.

Rooners - I don't know what you went through but I just wanted to add...In case it helps.. Our baby was in intensive care. She is fine now. I would say that from my perspective, the feelings you describe have lessened although they have not gone completely. It's really good to keep vocalising them.

I find I still tend to be hypervigilant and overreact. But I'm very aware of it now and am becoming better at recognising it and looking at situations more objectively.

What tiktok said is interesting. My DH has buried it away. I wonder in the long term if my coping mechanism is less harmful.

I'm so glad your little one is doing well.

Thankyou so much. I am glad you understand what I was trying to say. I'm also glad your little one is doing so well now. It must have been extremely difficult for all of you.

oohdaddypig, you say "Incessant screaming in very young babies is IMHO pain or hunger."

This is absolutely not the whole story - it can of course be pain or hunger.

But very young babies may scream incessantly also because their feelings are overwhelming. They can suffer anxiety, fear, bewilderment, lonliness, frustration, confusion - not on a cognitive level, where they understand that 'X happens and Y is the subsequent feeling' eg 'mummy has left me alone and I am scared without her' or 'I have all these feelings and no one is able to fix them for me and this makes me anxious'....no, they cannot work it out like that. But they certainly feel it.

It's not 'lack of bonding' and I did not suggest for one moment it was.

I did suggest that for some babies of a few days old, distressed screaming can be addressed not by exploring diet or allergies or wind or colic, and trying to 'fix' whatever is 'wrong' with any of these, but by accepting that the baby's need for closeness and responsive comfort is real, and that when parents accept that, and focus on that, and calmly offer whatever contact the baby is 'asking' for, things can get better.

I am not making any of this up. This is solid science, theory and practice.

Thanks rooners. I don't think I will ever fully recover but on the plus side I thank my lucky stars every day and it helps me through the more "challenging" parenting days

Tiktok, I'm not going to argue with science... It's not something I know much about from a scientific perspective - and how they measure it is beyond me "this baby is screaming because it's lonely"

I think if you try to cuddle and comfort a screaming 5 day old baby - and that doesn't work, then it's likely to be pain or hunger. I can't think of anyone who would not comfort a crying newborn TBH.

As I said, for someone who is desperately trying to figure out whilst their baby is screaming - which after 5 hours is seriously stressful day in, day out - telling them to comfort said baby IS unhelpful.

It's interesting what you say Tik (and Daddypig too).

Thinking about it I think the main thing I learned is how much ds3 was doing two things in parallel - he was experiencing something which I don't know about - some sort of pain I imagine, also it seemed like panic, at times.

And because he was being held and stroked and spoken to gently, and all the other things you do instinctively as a parent, he was also learning that whatever it was, wasn't ALL he had.

It was in a sense containing him and containing the pain, that made him know that whatever he was going through, someone was going to try and help him, someone would be there with him as it happened, and when the pain was not there, there was nothing to be afraid of.

In short, I was a different thing to his body. There was some kind of duality about the whole thing.

I think that this is what I hate so much about CC and especially CIO. Babies do experience a massive spectrum of emotions and sensations and it is not for us to take these away, unless of course we are able to - but it is most definitely for us to co-experience those moments with our little offspring, and to teach them that they are not alone with these monsters.

We are teaching them to share their experience, and to receive comfort in more than a physical way however helpless we both are against the physiological trials of babyhood.

oohdaddypig, I am not going to dissect the OP's posts as it would not be fair, but it was not at all clear from her posts that just being 'with' the baby for extended periods had been tried, or not consistently enough. I didn't tell the OP to comfort the baby.

There is a cultural bias that prevents this sort of responsive care in some families. Some parents leave their babies to cry (I don't think the OP was doing this). Some parents have unrealistic expectations of what a newborn needs.

The science is not about 'this baby is crying because he is lonely'. A talkboard is not a great place to explain the science of early emotional development, but it is nothing to do with 'diagnosing' the precise reason for an individual baby's cry at any particular time. A good starting point to understand the science is to read 'Why Love Matters' by Sue Gerhardt, but there are other books - just ask if you want more :)

Rooners - you say "It was in a sense containing him and containing the pain"....absolutely. 'Containment' is the technical term for it, in fact (maybe you knew that already, sorry!).