Can I have a BFing debrief?

[TruthSweet]

I'm not sure if anyone remembers me but I was fairly active on this board for a few years though I haven't been on for about a year.

Bfing DD4 has been so hard and I feel like such a failure. She's allergic to so much and it's just so difficult, she's like a limpet most of the time and can't sleep with out nursing for most of the night. I'm getting touched out & I just want things to be easier.

Hey, how old is your dd? Sounds very much like my son. He is nearly 4 now, but bf til he was 3.3 years.
I gave up all dairy for the first 6/8 months as he reacted badly to it.
He was also a limpet baby, it drove me a bit insane, but it doesn't last forever. Have you got good support at home?

Is dd in bed with you? Nursing lying down was a big help for me.
Why do you feel like a failure? You sound far from it. You have 3 other children to look after too, be kind to yourself.

I recognise your name Truth, and I am so sorry you are finding this stage hard (and it is a stage!). There is no way you are a failure, you are doing such a good job with your DD. You have not said much in your post, but it is clear you are doing above and beyond your best.

Is there any respite for you? Can other family help you have a little time to your self to recharge so you feel more prepared for the harder times when DD will not leave your boob/arms?

Not sure how you feel about dummies, or what age your DD is, but for a little bit of a break in the wee small hours, would you consider this?

If not, and you want to push through, remember it will get better, it always does, even when you feel it might never.

We are here to give you some moral support with whatever decisions you have to make.

DD4 is 11m, I went dairy free for 1m starting when she was about 3m old with no change but going wheat free* brought a change in her reflux in 48h, I then went on an exclusion diet for two weeks (turkey, rice, sweetcorn, apple & pear) and that seemed to 'cleanse' my body enough that she was able to drop her reflux meds.

Strangely enough DD4 is so sensitive to dairy that even holding beef brings her out in hives! No change from me not eating it though and I was super careful

She also has had two TT revisions but really needs a 3rd, has an upper lip tie which means that no matter how we latch on, I still have vasoconstriction which can be painful at times and makes BF for hours flipping irritating as her latch is so shallow.

We've co-slept since birth as she used to have up to 7 hour feeds so I couldn't have done anything else! Though there wasn't exactly any sleeping going on on my part due to the pain & bleeding.

The failure part is because I am (was?) a bfing peer supporter and a trainee BFC. I haven't done any bfing support for months as I feel like a fraud. Nothing I have done has made any difference to how she feeds and I have done the lot - exaggerated latch/flipple, exaggerated latch with lip flip, biological nurturing, rugby ball hold, etc, etc - it still hurts so badly some times I feel like I want to peel my own skin off and run away screaming. Which makes me feel very lacking if I am honest.

*DD3 has a wheat allergy

I've had so many 'breaks' as I have epilepsy and was pretty much out of action from the Easter holidays to the end of June due to a very bad patch so my mum/MIL have been looking after me while DH was at work. My new drugs seem to be working now so things are looking up. I have a homestart volunteer too. DH does a lot too and I get lie ins/naps as needed but DD4 is only now tolerating him holding her (not in the evenings though as she just wants me), previously she just screamed until she was brought to me

Dummies make her vomit as her gag reflex is so far forward. Believe me I tried but they made her so distressed that it was just making things worse. I had hoped she might take one as they can be good for reflux babies.

Thank you both for your kind words and support, I appreciate it

truthsweet I have seen you give support and advice on mumsnet. I would say you having a difficult time feeding puts you in really good stead to provide support and counseling to other women, it's expanding your understanding of breastfeeding relationships which no text book or study could.

Are you getting support from HCP to meet your breastfeeding goals?

I'm no sure how else to help you but I want to.

Off to bed right now but will check in and see how you are doing in the morning.

Be gentle on yourself today.

How is she getting at taking a cup truthsweet? Did you have a set amount of time that you wanted to BF for? All I was thinking was a milk that she could take out of a cup, whether it be EBM or a milk that she's not allergic to.

I can honestly say that you have nothing to feel bad about, 11 months with all those challenges is a huge achievement.

Wow Truth - hats off to you for dealing with such a complex, and quite frankly painful situation.

To have fed for so long while dealing with diet, TT and reflux issues is really inspirational.

If you choose to go back to peer supporting, I think you will be in a wonderful position to give advice on a broader range of issues, and have a unique understanding of how a woman feels when everything is against her (or it feels that way) and nothing seems to have worked, especially because you have persevered throughout.

Really good point about the cup - has expressing been a possibility?

Never feel like you have failed. Maybe sometimes there isn't an answer as such, more just ways to cope.

Haz - no support from HCP. Paed. cons. is still baffled that she's bf and GP couldn't understand how she could react to yoghurt but not her formula milk (that would be because she hasn't had formula....).

It's not that I think bfing supporters shouldn't have any problems with bfing* rather that if I can't find solutions for my own problems I'm not exactly going to give other mothers any faith that I will be able to support them or help support them as they work through their own feeding issues.

*(DD1 was rather tough going and I pumped for her for 8w before she would reliably bf directly, DD2 was tricky to start with but by day 4 she was a pro, it was just the tandem feeding ALL day from DD1 that was fun & DD3 was easy to bf directly, it was when she was in hospital that the difficulties ensued)

MrsBeano - She mainly dribbles when 'drinking' from a beaker no matter what type (open spout, trainer cup with ducks' bill style spout, TT first cup, etc, etc) so she doesn't have much water.

Ideally she'd nurse to 2y as a minimum as my other 3 have nursed from 3y 1m to 4y 9m so weaning earlier isn't really an option. Pumping is a no go too as I'm a rubbish pumper even when my babies are little so pumping past 6m is pretty impossible.

JoinTheDots - It's not painful all the time now just irritating some of the time and 'ouch' a little bit, the irritating bit has driven me to distraction though esp after a few hours of it in the evenings. To start with it was excruciating, and I am saying that as someone who has had gall stones & pancreatitis but luckily that only lasted about 2 months (only! )

Oh lovely, handhold here. I'm almost two years into a dairy and soya free diet because of dd's reflux and food intolerances. She was 3 months prem and her tummy was just a mess for a looong time. When she was first trying solids anything thicker than a thin gruel and she'd choke forget finger foods til she was 1!! At her worst she reacted to babyrice, oats, all orange veg, anything more acidic than apple, potatoes and legumes. Over the last 6-9 months its all begun to lift and her only banned foods are nuts, dairy, soya and spuds and she can even have tiny traces of the last three. Her gag reflex is no longer utterly horrific either. She used to have to be under a rainhood all the time in her buggy as the slightest breeze made her gag and choke. One day when it all eases a little this experience will be priceless for counselling because we cant fix all the fuckeduppedness of things sometimes we do just have to have a hand to hold until time passes. Until then theres always heroic doses of omeprazole... Nothing less than 3mgs per kg for reflux this bad. Wishing you strength and courage x

Truthsweet. I'm really sorry to hear you're having a hard time. I echo everyone else though, that by carrying on in the face of all these difficulties, you're anything but a failure!

One of the things from my peer support training which made a big impression on me, was that we wouldn't be able to solve every problem - indeed that we weren't there to solve problems, but to give information. Any peer supporters / BFCs you have spoken to about this have also not been able to solve all your issues, otherwise you wouldn't still be having them, so I would say the fact that you haven't solved them either doesn't mean anything, other than that unfortunately you/your DD are one of the more complex cases.

Like others said, it'll get easier with time; I hope that time comes soon.

Poppet - that sounds horrendous! Luckily DD4 is off all reflux meds now but she was on domperidone from 2w and ended up on omeprazole & ranitidine too. Now it's just Cetirizine to damp down her allergies

That is really shitty of the HCP. They should be supporting you. I am cross with them on your behalf. It's time like this I wish there was a rating service for GPs so you could choose one that meets your needs as a whole person not a collection of symptoms.

I think it's OK to take a break from supporting people in terms of peer support or your training to focus on you and your daughter and family. Just because at the moment you feel unable to support other people doesn't mean in the future you will feel the same.

Keep talking here and we will all try to help you find away through this period together.

The Paed said we'd need to change her milk, so I said she was bf. Yes I know said the Paed!

I don't think he quite realised the lengths I'd go to keep bfing. When I found out DD3 was wheat allergic I was about 14w pg so I went wheat free from 20w pg with DD4 (I have no milk in 2nd trimester so wanted to be clear of wheat by the time my colostrum came back at 26ish weeks).

DD4 has been nursing on and off since 11 and still won't settle, she huffing and snuffling and wriggling and I hurt. I don't like feeling like this, it feels like I am permanently 3m pg (look it too!) with tender breast and a rage on when bfing. I just wish I could enjoy it as much as she so obviously does

I don't know why am still so surprised when I hear stories like that from Doctors.

I get that rage when my period is due it which seams to coincide with DS wants to feed all night but swapping sides and then flicking and fiddling and kicking.

Would night weaning be an option you could explore? So DD4 still feed in the day but not at night? I know that night weaning takes a gargantuan effort. We are going through it very slowly at the moment. It has taken about 6 or 8 weeks but DS is over 2. I'm finding the rewards are coming slowly now but it was pretty shit the first few nights.

Hope you get some rest soon

Opps a final thought have you spoken to your supervisior/tutor for BFC training? I thought one of the things that was meant to do was allow you to unpack your issues/feelings etc so that you are able to be a better councilor.

Do I remember you OP? Of course I do! You were one of the people that got me through my early days of BF and in part because of you we're still going over here at 21 months.

So sorry to hear that you are having a hard time.

Sorry your having a tough time. You have helped me a lot with BFing & I'm still feeding at 17 months thanks to all that

Have you eliminated soy? DS is allergic to dairy & soy and I'm a coeliac so gluten free as well. DS will react to soy lecithins and anything that may contain soy, so it's tough going dietary wise. He is a total limpet if I have any at all but only I discovered this around a year in

He also needed three TT divisions and has a lip tie, reflux, low IgA, hole in his heart & poor weight gain at times. It's been tough to keep feeding as every pead & dietician he is under keep telling me to stop

If it helps, things got better once he was 13-14 months. He still has a TT & the lip lie was a killer 8-12 months but also improved. He seems to have grown into them. The gag reflex is much, much better too. Almost normal now is say.

I found all this so tough & I only have one DC. You have managed all this with four! Amazing.

Good point Haz, I haven't had my period yet but I got it back with DD2 & DD3 at 11m so maybe I am just in a hormonal RAAAHHH state I think night weaning would be hell on earth as she doesn't seem to cope when removed from that which her world revolves around. Having said that she fed at 9am ish then 12.30isn and she's only just had another feed now, which is most unlike her. I've even been able to unlatch her and she's not woken up.

nice to see you, 21 months, eh? Well done you and baby Just goes to show it doesn't matter how many bfing websites/links up your sleeve, it can all still go to shit!

Crikey NothingsLeft, no dairy, soy or gluten It always amazes me what mothers will do for their babies, yet when it comes down to it, it does seem like a small price to pay (I do miss proper toast, croissants & crumpets though).

It does infuriate me some HCPs just want to take the quantifiable route - baby takes Xml of brand Y, Z times a day - rather than looking at each situation individually. 'Cos people are individuals not just a collection of symptoms....

What do they think bfing is impeding or causing that means you/he need to stop?

DD4 seems fine on soya, in that she can have some soy yoghurt/custard without an immediate or recognisable reaction (she normally has hives, blotchy rash, vomiting or diarrhoea when I have wheat or she has contact with wheat/dairy/beef), is there something else I should be looking for?

I have only had 2 paed. appts for DD4 and the 2nd one was only because she piggy backed onto DD2's paed appt (they see the same one but DD2's for hypermobility & DD4's for hypermobility & her digestive issues) and she's only sort of seen the dietician and again that was by a very nice paeds. dietician giving me some tips on cutting dairy when bfing while DD3 had her first & only appt re. DD3's wheat allergy....

I miss chocolate a lot

Tbh I think most HCP don't come across BFing that much or know a huge amount about it. The natural instinct seems to be to switch from BFing, as your right, it's more quantifiable and they feel more certain in their approach. I have been told all sorts of inaccuracies re: BFing and done a bit of educating in the process!

Sounds like soy is fine then. With DS I have to be ultra careful with any of his allergens. If I eat something that may contain x,y or z on the label he doesn't get diarrhoea but is massively unsettled and clingy, doesn't sleep, wants to feed all the time etc. often if he's like that, I retrace my good steps and always find something to account for it.

Are you cutting all forms of dairy, wheat, beef out? I found eating haribos type sweets for example would do it before I realised some are beef gelatine. Things sneak in everywhere...