How can I realistically breast feed? Help!

[streetgirl77]

Hi, I'm new and looking for advice because so far the hospital and midwifes have been pretty rubbish.

I have a 5 day old baby. He is month early but he is not too small (6lb 8). It has never occured to me to do anything other than breast feed. It didn't occur to me to prepare any alternative but now I'm at a cross roads.

Ok this might seem like tmi but I need to give you a picture as it might be relevant. I have a very small frame (in case someone tells me I should lose weight) but have got a very big bust which, sadly through my pregnancy is not firm at all. In fact, when I try to feed my baby I can only describe it as putting a bean bag over a tennis ball (sorry)

The midwife asked me if I was going to breast feed after I delivered and I said yes so she bought my son up to my chest and without asking, grabbed handfuls of my boob and tried to 'manipulate' it into my babies mouth. The poor boy looked like he was going to suffocate and wriggled away. She said, 'oh they are not born hungry' and not to worry.

The first night in hospital my baby just screamed and screamed. He sounded absolutley desperate for food but he kind of sucked a bit but nothing came so he pulled away and carried on screaming until he was so distressed I couldn't get him anything like close enough to suck.

The midwives came along and literally grabbed my boob and tried to push milk along toward my nipple. Nothing. Then they put me on a pump for over an hour. Nothing. My baby started looking ill so after 24 hours they finally gave him a tiny cup of formula (not in a bottle) so he would get used to the correct mouth movements or something. The following three days they kept coming up, grabbing, squeezing, pumping etc (all without asking!) and kept promising some breast feeding counseller would come and see me (never happened. It was always, 'tomorrow'). So day 4, no milk, nothing coming out through a pump or any other method. Baby looking ill, losing weight and being fed tiny amounts in a tiny cup.

Yesterday I had enough after being told yet again a counseller was coming but being told I had to wait for formula as they were very busy and there are "women in labour don't you know!" So I just had to sit there with my poor, clearly very distressed baby and I thought, "right I've had enough I'm going to try this at home"

So, I got home last night, got a Boots breast pump and lo and behold, I have a little bit of expressed milk this morning woo hoo!!

BUT, now here's the thing. I have had a wonderful health visitor come today who was sent especially by a friend to help and advise me and she is a BF counseller too. She came armed with nipple shields and a lovely V pillow. She positioned my baby and my boob. BUT, (bit hard to explain sorry) In order to BF baby I need to have the whole thing out and kind of hold the nipple in this flat, pressed down shape on top of the pillow in order for him to be able to latch!

How in gods name am I supposed to continue? I am absolutely not comfortable in front of family, friends etc to show myself in this way. It will mean I can't leave the house for several months. I cannot just sit in the corner of my sofa pushing my boob into a painful shaped sausage for the next 4-5 months surely? I know breast feeding him is nutritionally better but is this really the best option socially, emotionally, physically, mentally? I feel very tearful. I'm fed up of being pushed and prodded and my baby is miserable. He has lost a lot of weight he is not chubby like other babies he looks scrawny and ill now. I have got him latched once this morning but have no idea how much he is getting (it took me 45 mins to express 20 mls) But even if I produce more do I just give up seeing daylight and getting him fresh air or socialising for the first few months?

I am so sorry this is long. I feel so desperate right now. I can't imagine bottle feeding I am going to feel so guilty if I do. If someone can offer me a shred of hope I'd be very very grateful Thanks for taking the time to read x

Just read your bit about giving it four weeks, I remember vividly that after much struggling to get ds to feed by week four my confidence had soared and I felt on top of the world, if you can keep going until then I am sure you will be completely sorted!

It's still very early days and you sound like you're doing a great job so far.... keep it up!!

FWIW I was a J/K cup when feeding - it felt ridiculous this giant boob smothering a tiny baby's head..... but we persevered and managed to feed all 3 DCs for a year or so each.

Top tips I've read above

• • try lying down/rugby ball hold
• • sod EVERYONE else - you and Baby are all that matter here - lots of skin to skin contact / snoozing together etc.
• • my milk to a good week to come in with DS1 I was in hospital for 5 days and he didn't feed - then got engorged but little and often he (and I) got through those early days.
• • my Polish nursery nurse in the Hospital said this "boys are lazy....they don't do anything they don't have to whether it's working hard to feed/doing their laundry at 18" and it kind of stuck with me.......
• • It's a learning curve for you and your baby - both of you are new to it and it will take time to work out what works best for you both - 5days in is still super early!

Good luck - you sound like you want to make it work and that's half the battle IMHO.

It does get easier. Within a few weeks your baby's mouth will already be bigger and they will be more adept at latching on. It is well worth persevering if BF is something you want to do.

I agree, go with two tops. One comes up, one goes down and you won't reveal a thing. I'm large chested myself and I've been able to feed very discreetly.

I remember those first few weeks crying because I thought I would never be able to feed out and about and that we would be housebound for six months. Then it all clicked and became the easiest thing in the world.

I felt exactly the same with DS1. I hardly went out in the first 6wks as I was recovering from his crap birth + got used to bfing in private. When I went out later on I only fed if there was a private area available or if I was with other mums or if I had to feed in other situations I'd use a large muslin round me like a cape. Most times I took expressed milk. I expressed once a day in the evening every day to ensure there was always enough in the freezer.
You will no doubt find it becomes easier as you get more confident, maybe even one-handed when baby's neck gets stronger. With DS2 I fed anywhere with a muslin over me as he was bigger even tho my norks were even floppier second time around!

Another one here who had to manhandle and get into weird positions for the first couple of weeks! I can't remember when it settled down but it did somehow. By the time DS was a few months old I just had to show him my boob and he'd latch hinself on. This will happenfor you too :)

I found it so hard at first, and had to get in the position, boobs out, cushion etc. I would disappear into a separate room when visitors came which wasn't ideal but I was very self concious.

What really helped me was setting small goals - at first to try and breastfeed for 6 weeks. When I got to 6 weeks it was a bit easier, so I set myself the target if 12 weeks, and so on. I ended up breastfeeding for 20 months.

Just do what you can do x

I feel so sorry for you Streetgirl and your post brought little tears to my eyes as I was in a similar position 6 months ago. We had feeding problems from the beginning (turned out to be tongue tie, followed by milk being very slow to come through) and I felt utterly humiliated in the hospital having my boobs prodded and shoved into the baby's mouth. I felt like I was on display and got very angry and claustrophobic (to the point where I threatened to do silly things such as jump out of the window). Realised by day 3 that nothing was going to work while I was in hospital so went home.

To cut a long story short, we continued to have a fairly rocky ride for a while - weight loss, then told to start using formula. Six months on though, DD is EBF, putting on weight very well and frankly BF is a doddle compared to the early days. BF in public took a while to get used to, but just got easier over time. In the early days, I tried lots of different positions, including getting on all fours and dangling boob at baby, plus laying her on a breakfast tray on legs next to me while I sat on the bed in order to save my back!

I posted on here lots as we lurched from one problem to the next, and always got lots of lovely advice and support - I could never have faced going to a group (but that was just how I personally felt - I'm sure they're very helpful for lots of people).

Wishing you lots of luck, keep posting and keep trying different positions - you have every good chance that each day it will get easier

I can't really help with the breast feeding my DS never got the hang of it so I switched to formula. Just wanted to say that I hope it works for you and that the lovely ladies on here can help but don't punish yourself if you have to make the switch to formula it's really not the end of the world

Hello street! I too am large of nork. I can vividly remember trying to bf DS1 immediately after having him, the poor baby looked terrified as my boob was at least twice the size of his head . Fwiw, I think you were treated appallingly in the hospital and I'm not surprised you've been feeling low about bf'ing, I think anyone would after all that nonsense. I agree with lots of the other people who've said to have a bit of a baby moon and spend as much time as you can doing skin to skin and practicing your latch. Breast feeding may be natural but it's also a real knack that can take time to perfect. As far as pumping goes, some people find they can't let down to a machine, if you want to express try looking a your lovely boy or even a photo of him. You sound like you're doing brilliantly despite the crap lack of support in the hospital. Well done and huge congratulations!!

Bf is bloody hard work for lots of us, it comes easily and naturally to some but they are the lucky ones! I have floppy ones too and found it hard. I could only feed in the rugby ball hold with baby at my side on a pillow under my arm, and both hands supporting/shaping the boob. It wasn't easy, and I found that as the babies got bigger they started pushing off the back of the sofa with their feet and wrenching their mouths off the nipple a million times every feed. I only lasted a few weeks each time (but also had poor quality/volume milk issues thanks to being very anaemic) and one of the factors was difficulty in bf in public when it feels like you need three pairs of hands, a v pillow and a blanket to achieve it.

So this time round I'll give it a try for the first week or so but I have a cupboard filled with formula and bottles ready and I won't feel a shred of guilt about using them because I tried bloody hard twice before, latch consultants, bf groups, special pillows, equipment and breast pumps, slings etc

I carried on determinedly through cracked nipples, blisters and excruciating pain, and if it had worked yes it would have been worth it, but going on to ff was the best thing that happened to us. I did feel guilty and disappointed both times but it freed us up to go out, it stopped me having to stress about flashing boob in front of people, it stopped the soreness, and most importantly my poor babies (who lost 1lb in birth weight and started to look very scrawny) were happy, healthy, and started putting on weight.

I'm very pro bf, but just to put the other side forward, don't feel guilty if you choose to ff. You can mix feed for as long as you like too, I did that for a fair while to try and have the best of both worlds. It's certainly easier to bf in the privacy of your own home when there's so much boob to juggle!

Good luck, I hope you succeed in bf if that's what you want.

The rugby hold method worked for both of my (small) babies with my (massive) norks in the early days, and so did lying on my side. I had to hold a bit of boob back, so they could breathe. If you can keep going it will get easier (and more dignified!) as they grow and you both get more confident. I never needed breast pads, and very rarely felt engorged which I put down to having plenty of room! Good luck, and congrats!

Congratulations!

Are you me?

Baby was nearly 100% formula for the first week - poor staff - huge boob had to be squidged to get into mouth - disaster after disaster...

By two months, he wasn't on formula, by three months I was almost discrete by four months I didn't care anyway.

What works as a position to feed initially won't necessarily be 'a' position, and as you and baby get used to it, you'll be able to adjust. I was never a dignified feeder, but I found sitting at one end of the sofa with a barrier of cushions 'hid' me a little from visitors. Second/third/whatever getting to real life support groups, which I found better than any hospital support.

You have the determination and the equipment, good luck!

Gosh streetgirl, I'm not surprised you're feeling so rubbish, what a dreadful start to get off to with very poor advice and 'help'.

Pretty pointless midwives/hospital staff suggesting using a pump in the first few days, the amounts of colostrum produced are so tiny that it would all get lost in the pump parts and it can be very demoralising, as no doubt you found. Also absolutely appalling that anyone thought it was fine to grab your breasts at all, let alone without your consent and this kind of approach just isn't helpful and as a peer supporter myself, one of the first things we are taught is 'hands off' and not to invade someone's privacy or personal space.

I also have quite large breasts (HH cup) but my nipples face forwards. Some women's face upwards, downwards, outwards. They come in all shapes, sizes and 'directions' and all are perfectly normal. Some women with large breasts do feel they need to hold or support the breast in order to feed, but it doesn't sound quite right that people have suggested you manipulate the breast into an unnatural position to feed in. Instead, do you think holding your baby at an angle to suit your breast so they are facing the nipple at the angle it naturally points would be more helpful? It's quite hard to explain without seeing you, but I do feel this may be easier. One position doesn't suit all women and although generally the advice is 'tummy to mummy', if your nipples point in a direction hat makes that difficult, as many women's do, then it may be that something else suits you and your baby better.

It's very early days for you and it sounds like you've done brilliantly is very difficult circumstances so far. Do you think you could get to a breastfeeding clinic or to see the breastfeeding advisor at your hospital (as an outpatient obviously) whilst your baby is so young? Another possibility is phoning one of the breastfeeding helplines and it may be that a breastfeeding counsellor from somewhere like the NCT or La Leche League can get out to help you in your home?

It must be even more difficult for you if you feel self conscious when feeding, but I think most Mums do feel the same early on. Breastfeeding is something you have never used your breasts to do before and it must be learnt and it can feel awkward and uncomfortable and strange. For now you can certainly get on without having to feed in public and as your baby gets older if you don't find a way to feed where you'd feel comfortable in public, there are other options, such as expressing milk to take out that are open to you, so I would try and concentrate on what's happening now and think about the public feeding later on when you have to.

be kind to yourself, you really are doing great to come this far. I know 5 days might not seem like long, but it can be when you have a newborn and are exhausted and have hormones running riot. I think I was still randomly bursting into tears when DD was 5 days old...

Gosh this reminds me of my early days bf. Still going 2y on. Here's what helped-

nipple flick technique
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1247792-Nipple-Flick-explanation/AllOnOnePage

skin to skin contact at home - bed, sofa, in the bath, anywhere

be kind to yourself. Eat, drink, be realistic- your baby is only a newborn for a short time. Within 6 weeks you may find it all turns around naturally. When the baby gets head control / neck muscle strength it'll improve. You both need practice. Call it a babymoon and ignore other responsibilities. In a few months you'll have forgotten about lining up noses and nipples. Honestly, the baby will latch themself on soon - the early days are not necessarily indicative of bf even a 2/3 month old.

be kind to yourself! you've just given birth. In any other circumstances you'd be taking it easy.

surround yourself with supportive people / avoid others who aren't supportive for now. People who bring you drinks and food and rearrange the cushions behind your back are your friends just now. Those who want "their turn" with the baby, or who want to play pass the parcel / guess what perfume your baby smells of now? Can bog off. Let your baby bond with you. Let your hormones work. Did I mention skin to skin, ha ha!

The other thing that helped was keeping a note of feeds/sides, pees and poos, because it was too much to remember. The confidence of seeing weight gain after the initial drop, and knowing he'd done enough weeing each day helped a lot.

Oh god, BF can be such a nightmare at first! Take things a week (or even a day) at a time. Every feed is a bonus. I BF DD for five days and DS for three weeks (had to stop for diff reasons each time but I tried so hard!). All I can say is that now they're older I'm so proud of myself for getting as far as I did and I don't feel bad at all that they ended up on formula. (You sound a lot more likely to continue than me though, I'm sure you'll be fine!)

Poor you - i am yet to hear sbout a positive experience in a post natal ward. I am still a novice at bf too so not much to add to the above except check your pump is big enough for you. I could get next to nothing with pumping and was getting sore when feeding wasn't sore. I have now discovered that's for my pump (medela swing) the bit that attaches to the breast comes in different sizes. I now have an extra large bit for my mega nipples and can get much better volumes and no pain.

My advice would be to ring your midwife ASAP and get them round to check your baby. I was discharged from hospital with my (now 3.3 week old) ebf screaming baby and was out less than 24 hours before he was admitted to the childrens ward dehydrated and with an associated sodium imbalance. He had lost over 10% of his birth weight. I was feeding him for one hour plus and simply didn't have enough milk. I'm quite angry that the very supportive breast feeding hospital didn't mention that bf does not work for everyone and when your baby is starving ordering books off amazon or trying a repertoire of tips out is not going to cut it. I am not anti bf - I am gutted to be mixed feeding now as the formula has fish in it, it stinks, it's a pain to prepare - I could go on but bottom line is my baby spent 3 days on a drip because I didn't produce enough milk to feed him and the bf experts and maternity ward staff refused to acknowledge this was a possibility. The childrens ward told me they have at least one admission a week due to inadequate bf. hopefully this will just be a blip for you but it's worth getting your little one checked out.

at Lozster - we have chatted before on 35/39 threads!

Congratulations on your DS, but v sorry to hear about your feeding problems. We had 13% birth weight loss by day 4 and were threatened with readmission but managed to avoid by agreeing to comply with complicated BF/Formula regime.

I was told that the tongue tie problems that had gone unnoticed for several days had contributed to my milk being slow to come in (DD wouldn't feed) and I that I would never have a good enough supply (in effect, I had missed the bus)

Thankfully I was able to prove them wrong by building supply up gradually, and cutting down on FF bit by bit.

Agree that weight loss in the early days needs to be closely monitored because once over the 10% threshold HCPs take a very different attitude (was first told don't worry, the baby can go ages without feeding then all of a sudden it had changed to your baby isn't in great shape due to not feeding!)

Another large of norker here. I use a bf cushion on my lap for the baby then hold my breast by cupping my hand under it, between it and the cushion. This gets noob to baby height.

Have been able to do this in public eg coffee shop with lovely portable cushion from thrupenny bits and big apron cover thing for bf