'Tricks' to increase milk supply??

[nowanearlyNicemum]

my neighbour has recently given birth to a little boy and is struggling with her milk supply. aswell as feeding as often as possible she has been trying the following:

• non-alcoholic beer
• fennel tea
• nettle tea
• fenugreek tablets

and I was just wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience - or can suggest other 'tricks of the trade'. her gp is angling for formula but she's desperate to continue breast-feeding. I really feel for her but only have my own experience to draw on. Thought I'd consult the experts!! :)

How old is the baby? Has she slobbed out on the sofa, or taken him into bed with her and just had feed-fests? Also, in this heat she'll need to drink masses, quite possibly more than she realises. When increasing my bm with dd I found myself drinking a pint of water at each feed, plus at least 2 pints between feeds. How much fenugreek is she taking? I found 6 tablets a day effective, IIRC, and could really feel the difference. But as fenugreek can have a mildly laxative effect, she would need to come off it slowly afterwards to make sure she didn't get constipated.

Oh yes, what about the nappies etc? Frequent wet, several pooey every day? Alertness, development etc? Any jaundice? They're all more relevant than weight gain.

thanks for that pretty candles.
yes you're right, I should have asked her about nappies etc. I don't know to be honest, just bumped into her in the lift this morning and she looked really dejected :(
I do know that she's been having 'feed-fests' though. great expression! And the little mite looks quite alert to me - difficult to tell with such a wee one.
will aim to get more info...

something that someone told me when I was getting my supply established was to cut down on my dairy intake (I eat quite a lot of dairy produce:) ) is there any truth in this?

Never heard of that before.

There are no tricks, no tips, no handy hints, sorry. Just plain ol' physiology.

If someone wants to increase their milk the only thing that will do it with any degree of certainty or effectiveness is to increase the frequency with which the baby removes the milk - that is what drives supply. The baby has to be on in a way that allows him to do this properly, too.

All the other stuff - herbs, teas, beers - is piddling in its effect if the physiological basis is not understood or acted upon!

In desperate cases, there is medication which can boost prolactin but this has to be used in conjunction with frequent, effective feeding.

Some mothers are told/feel they don't have enough milk. This can be the case, it's true, but often, they are doing just fine.

There is no truth that cutting down dairy (or increaseing it) will have any effect on supply, either. Plenty of people will have individual foods or drinks they feel made a difference, but I feel in most cases it is co-incidence.

Eating, drinking and resting will not have any effect in most people.

Perhaps your neighbour can call one of the bf helplines?

Thanks tiktok, second baby due and first time around I too felt I didn't have enough milk, so it's good to be given a confidence boost. Also this time I am seeing the bf counsellor before the birth to be prepared. Also gearing up for a much nicer birth experience to get us both off to a good start!

thanks tiktok, - no surprises there :o
have just been nextdoor to try and reassure her and she says that there are plenty of dirty and wet nappies and the baby's alert. the pediatrician is making a big thing of the fact that on Thursday the baby will be 2 weeks old and hasn't yet regained his birth weight.
I have found the telephone no of the local leche league representative and told her to phone them.

she says that at the hospital they told her to leave at least 2 hours between each feed and not to wake him to feed (even very early on). surely this can't have helped with getting the supply established? have told her to feed him, feed him, feed him - will keep you posted. thanks for your thoughts.

Great advice here, would just like to add that I found the LLL helpline the most helpful and reassuring regarding breastfeeding, plus I now know their advice is all backed up by research studies, so not just what someone thinks or what HVs/medics have half-remembered from their minimal training.

If you feel like looking on kellymom.com there's loads of info e.g. \link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enough-milk.html\is my baby getting enough milk?} for starters. Interesting that they mention it's best to measure growth from the lowest point, not necessarily birth weight.

Personally I swear by lots of porridge and fennel tea. I'm quite happy to accept Tiktok's comment that this may be psychological although kellymom does say some mums see a benefit from oatmeal (\link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/oatmeal.html\here}). I would certainly agree that the very best, most important thing is to feed the baby whenever they want (unless baby v sleepy, in which case def wake them up and try). Such a shame that hospitals are still encouraging scheduling feeds every x hours. (Although 2h is better than the 4h I was told when ds1 was in special care. I was told off for coming to see him more often than that. )

I'm not dissing fennel tea or even porridge - plenty of mothers feel certain foods help, and that's just fine. I am not even saying the effect is 'only' psychological, and I wouldn't diss a psychological effect, either!

What I am saying is that nothing is as important as getting the milk supply going the only way we know for sure is effective - and that's frequent, effective removal of the milk.

A baby not up to birthweight at 2 weeks may be fine. OTOH, there may be reasons why things are a little slow. It needs some skill to work out whether something needs to be 'fixed' or not.

apparently at birth the baby weighed 2kg600g, went down to 2kg400g and is now at around 2kg500g (13 days old)
do you think this sounds as dreadful as the pediatrician obviously does?
sorry, will stop asking questions for a while - thanks!

sorry tiktok, cross posts.
am hoping that the LLL will be able to allay her fears.
mummypig, will have a look at that website - I'm in France and my friend doesn't speak english but I will just have to do a bit of translating!
lio, good luck with breastfeeding number 2. I'm gearing up for breastfeeding a second little vampire in October and am much more adamant about the kind of advice and care I'm after this time round!!!

From my experience I suggest lots of fluids - water rather than tea/coffee. The tea's you've mentioned are supposed to help.

Also, make sure she is eating 3 good meals a day with snacks.

I fed my baby all the time - she gained well to begin with, when I fed up every 3 hours, then it all went haywire & I seemed to be feeding her constantly. She slipped down the charts, although there was no shortage of milk from me & she was permanantely attached. I think she had too much foremilk & wasn't getting the hindmilk - be doing it all again in August, so we'll see.

Also , is she getting much rest ? suggest she sleeps/ puts her feet up at every opportunity !

mojo, eating, drinking and resting are unlikely to help with the bf, though it's good you felt they worked for you.

nowa,, the weight seems to indicate that it is going up, which is a good thing.

LLL have info in French that will help her.

\link{http://www.lllfrance.org/\lll france}

Oh raging bo**ocks to the two-weeks old and not yet regained birthweight thing! Dd took 3w to regain her birthweight, and she was fully bf.

But I don't think 2hourly gaps and not waking the baby to feed are a good thing at this age - maybe in a few week's time, but certainly not yet. I was advised to let dd feed as often as she wanted and for as long as she wanted, and never more than 3h between daytime feeds or 4h between night feeds at this age. This was not the advice I was given with ds, and surprise-surprise he was being topped up with bottles at 2wk.

thanks for all your pearls of wisdom ladies.
I haven't seen my neighbour yet today - hopefully she's in bed having a 'feed-fest'!!

I know her name is mud on this site, but i found gf's recommendation worked for me brilliantlz, for 3 dif babies so wasn't one off fluke. sorry, can't remember if she covers it in book 1 or 2 but worked perfectlz / quicklz for me, unlike any advice I got from breastfeeding councellor, which was crap.

fennel tea also good, but dunno if actually for increasing supply

saw my neighbour earlier and she says that she's been seriously demand feeding and can feel that she's got more milk so that's good news. she was on her way to get lo weighed so fingers crossed that he's put on enough to placate the pediatrician :)

What won't help increase milk supply is STRESS!

Tell her to relax and feed feed feed as often as possible - sod trying to get things into a routine so early on - that'll come in good time.

Our bodies are amazing things and given the chance I believe most new-mum's bodies can meet the demands of their new babies without the need of formula.

you're right there mammaduck
I think she is stressed as she's had her MIL living with them for the past 3 weeks - I think it's doing her head in to be honest. And she's one of the ones that keeps telling her to give the baby a bottle aaaaaaaaarrrrgh!
haven't heard how her appt went with the pediatrician yesterday but am hoping that she got some encouragement.

stress has no effect on milk supply, or shock etc.

but having mil for 3 weeks would send most people round the bend and that is not even with a newborn to consider.

just wanted to let you lovely ladies know that I saw my neighbour this morning and her ds has put on weight - and she looks soooo much happier.
thanks for all your support