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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

I've had Thrush for 3 months - any ideas?

46 replies

ninjinglebells · 31/01/2004 18:02

DD is 6 months and I've had thrush for 3 months.

First dpctor didn't give me enough treatment, second time I got the whole 300mg loading dose + 100mg twice a day of flucanazole + daktarin cream and gel for her. Third time I got a maintenance dose of 50 mg per day for a month and nyastatin cream (and oral suspension) - just to try something different!! I bathe my breasts in bicarb, eat lots of bio yoghurts and wash towels frequently

The nyastatin did seem slightly better but I still have thrush, still have open cracked nipple, feeding is still anywhere between sore and agony and all the medicine is running out

WHAT CAN I DO NOW?

I want to carry on bfeeding but I don't know if I can put up with another 3 months of this so any ideas would be greatfuly received

ps I really must change my christmas name

OP posts:
Wills · 31/01/2004 18:29

Not sure you're going to want to hear from me so unless you want the "full story" I'll keep it v. brief. dd2 and I have had thrush for 6 months now. Like you my gp dragged her feet over giving me the correct treatment for so long that it has built up and is now proving very difficult to get rid of. I am now seeking other forms of help. On Monday I'm off to the Hale clinic in St John's Wood where they feel that candida and thrush can be treated by changing your eating habits. The basis of their argument is that you don't eat the things that make yeast happy i.e. cut out.. yeast, sugar, wine and vinegar. At the same time I'm going to try and hunt out a specialist gynacologist etc. I should warn you that being on Fluconazol for an extended period is not good. I was on nystatin pills for 12 weeks, followed by the 50mg dose of Fluconazol for 8 weeks and now for the last 4 on 200mg of Fluconazol. After dragging her heals and not putting me on the correct stuff in the first place my gp is now not bothering to research the effects of being on it for a long time. However I don't trust my gp that well and have done some of my own research (and been fully supported by bfn) and its not a good idea to be on fluconazol for long periods of time especially for the little one. My gp's attitude is that the simple cure is for me to give up breast feeding and if I don't shift it soon this is certainly what I'm going to have to do. However this doesn't actually cure me of the thrush so she is really pissing me off!

Anyway sorry I don't have solutions, all I can offer is to share anything with you that I find works. Hope I haven't made you despondent. I plan to give it another fortnight so wish me luck in finding a solution.

ninjinglebells · 31/01/2004 18:37

I wish you loads of luck, and I know it's sounds awful but at least I know I'm not the only one. If you can do it for 6 months then at least I can get myy dd up to a year. I just wanted to be able to feed her until SHE wanted to stop and at the moment every day feeding is hard work. Even expressing seems to open the cracks more and dd's top teeth really don't help!

The main problem is that my nipples just won't heal.

I was coming to the conclusion that I don't want to keep on medicating but I'm worried about dd getting sore again.

If you find anything useful please let me know

Thanks

By the way dd is 9 months, not 6 - don't know where that came from

OP posts:
ninjinglebells · 31/01/2004 18:46

Hi Wills - I've just been reading some of your messages - you've done amazingly to keep feeding -I really hope you have some joy with this new clinic

Some days I just want to stop then and there but I know I'd regret that

Looks like I need to go and do some more research

OP posts:
Wills · 31/01/2004 19:46

I know what you mean by regret - that's what keeps me going, however sometimes I think I've got it out of proportion iyswim. I think you have to be determined to keep going as long as we have but breast feeding is supposed to be a joy. By the way dd2 is strictly speaking 5.5 months (it just seems like 6 months )

motherinferior · 31/01/2004 19:47

Just to say I am in awe of how brilliant both of you are being. (((hugs)))

aloha · 31/01/2004 19:50

Ninjinglebells, I think you are a hero. If I were you I would have given up long ago. I think there would certainly be no shame in giving up now. You really do deserve a break. You've given your dd 90% of the advantages of breastfeeding I'm sure and if you were to cup feed now I don't think anyone in the world would say anything but congratulations to you.

aloha · 31/01/2004 19:51

And you Wills, of course.

ninja1 · 31/01/2004 21:04

Some days I feel like that Aloha - but I guess I'm just stubborn!! - maybe a little lazy as I'd have to get to grips with full scale measuring and sterilising. Of course, a lot of it is also not wanting to lose the intimacy, particularly with being back at work.

well I've just washed nipples in white vinegar so I guess I smell lovely

Wills · 31/01/2004 21:53

Agree with the intimacy side of things, its what keeps me going too.

Why white wine vinegar? According to my breast feeding counsellor thrush likes vinegar and wine - they're two things on my "banned list" so I'm curious? (Am SERIOUSLY missing wine)

ninja1 · 31/01/2004 22:15

apparantly it's the colouring in vinegar that is yeasty and thrush doesn't like alkali or acid, hence bicarb or vinegar. Not sure about white wine one I've got distilled malt. Maybe someone else can confirm this. I was told to put it in the fabric conditioner part of the wash as well (it doesn't make it smell) to help to eliminate it from clothes, towels etc.

I have to say at the beginning I did try and sterilise/dishwash etc all toys etc for dd but I just couldn't keep it up. If only I could have looked into the future.....

ninja1 · 01/02/2004 08:17

So Wills - what else is off the list? Was about to make bread but now I won't, I take it mushrooms are bad, but please don't tell me it's another diary/wheat/... thing

from vinigar nipples

Wills · 01/02/2004 13:52

Dear vinigar nipples...

Don't know about mushrooms didn't really think about it, am in too much mourning over the idea of giving up bread. I love bread, no.. I adore bread and all bread products. Dh made toasted bagels this mroning and it was agony grrrr. I hope to find out more after my meeting tomorrow. Its at 4.30 in the afternoon so don't hold your breath.

From Yoghurt nipples (well that's what daktarin smells like!)

misspastry · 02/02/2004 20:31

I am in awe of both ninjinglebells and wills, maybe you wonderful girls can offer me some advice. I have been bfeeding my 2'd son for 11 days (fed 1's son for 4 months, but have had to stop as the pain was absolutley unberable, after 3 days of constant sobbing dh went and bought SMA.

then I noticed sons mouth and have come back from GP's toady with ds being diagnosed with thrush in his mouth.

GP examined me, I have not bfeed for 2 days so breasts really engorged again, very sore and slightly hot. He didn't giver me any treatment, just told to keep an eye out for any other symptoms, none as yet, last time I had the usual thrush was years ago.

I am at my wits end, culd I try and feed again, express milk of until ds mouth cleared up, thought of loads of questions after leaving GP, typical, plese can you give me some advice. I can't go through the pain agian, but do so want to feed my baby.

thanks for your help, excuse the pun byt i have to get this of my chest!

ninja1 · 02/02/2004 21:01

Hi Misspastry,

That must be really hard from you on top of starting the breastfeeding - doctors aren't always great at this, do you have a breastfeeding group you could go to - they would give advice as well as getting you back to feeding if that's what you want.

If he has thrush then so have you and you MUST get treatment for the both of you. It's best to make sure that it does clear up. The recommended (by the Breast Feeding Network) if Daktarin Oral Gel for him (4 times a day), Daktarin Cream for your nipples (both of these for 10 days after the symptons go) and Diflucan tablets ( a loading dose of 150mg and 50mg twice a day for 10 days) for you. Diflucan isn't registered for bf mothers but it is for infants! so this dose is fine.

Also recommended to boil/sterilise bras and anything else that could be in baby's mouth

If you want to get back to feeding it's probably best to express I guess but you can't freeze it unfortunately.

Hope this is some help - get back to that doctor. I'll try and find the link for the breastfeeding network leaflet to show to the doctor.

Good luck!

misspastry · 02/02/2004 21:09

thanks for your advice, I'll make another appt in the morning, in a way I am relieved that I now have a reason for such painful bf. but I must admit to being v anxious about starting again.

ninja1 · 02/02/2004 21:32

Hi again - sorry that all sounded so clinical before - but I could hear a wailing dd in the background!!

I can imagine you feel anxious if it's been so painful, poor you. I hope that you manage to get rid of it and start again. I really would recommend a bf group or counsellor if there's one near you. Before I went back to work I found it invaluable, particularly at the start getting the latching right etc.

I'd better go but hope you get what you need

ninja1 · 02/02/2004 21:34

I'll try and give you that link

Hope this works

thrush leaflet

ninja1 · 02/02/2004 21:35

OOH it worked!! I'd print it off and take it with you as eveidence!!

Wills · 03/02/2004 11:17

Blast I added a message last night and it failed! Misspastry, ninja1's advice to you is the best and all I can do is confirm what she is saying, especially the breast feeding councellor. Breast feeding and thrush is not pleasant and its down to my breast feeding councellor that I've got as far as I have. Also getting help with thrush at the beginning is vital before it gets seriously established and becomes an absolute pig to get rid of. Don't let your gp push to try other things first, go for the bfn's recommended dose and if he/she wont prescribe ask for a second opinion or go private.

Wills · 03/02/2004 11:25

Hi ninja1. OK, yesterday was a discovery - well I'm not sure how else to put it. The doctor/nutrionlist was lovely, and extremely supportive. She has given me a plan of action and some sort of timescale. She's also giving me supplements to help build up the bacteria that keeps the thrush/candiada (sp?) in place. Anyway she then presented with a list of things I could eat and things I couldn't. Its horrific! She took me through the list and the entire time she kept saying... "but you must remember to eat so as to keep your strength up" - not being funny but given the "banned" list there's not much more worth eating. At this rate at least I can say I'm going to lose weight! I'll give you list in a mo but I wanted to say before I start typing that I'm going to have a go but I'm not sure I can bear to cut out everything. The list of don'ts are in order "badness" (sorry got horrible cold and not thinking well at the moment). Things at the top are worse than those at the bottom. I'll then type in the list of things you can have but that might take me longer

Wills · 03/02/2004 11:34

The things NOT to eat

Sugar and foods containing sugar - white sugar, brown sugar, sucorse, fructose, glucose, dextrose, corn syrup, maltose, caramel, golden syrup, treacle, molasses, maple sytrup, honey, sweets, chocolate, marzipan, icing, desserts and puddings, ice cream, cakes and biscuits, soft drinks including squash and all canned drinks, bottle ketchup, chutneys, ice creams and any hidden sugars in processed foods. (if it tastes sweet don't eat it)

Yeast and all foods containing yeast or derived from it. This includes bread and even most pitta breads, foods coated in breadcrumbs, most pizza bases, Marmite, Vecon, Bovril, Oxo, monosodium glutonate, citirc acid and vitamin tablets unless "yeast free stated. (Use Marigold Swiss vegetable bouillon for stock as this is yeast free).

Refined grains - white flour, granary flour, and brown flour (which are white flour with bran and grains added), white rice, white pasta, cornflour, custard powder, cornflakes and cereals unless "whole grain" is stated (Use potato flour as a thickener)

Mala and malted products. Some cereals i.e. Weetabix, brown Ryvita, granary bread, malted drinks like Ovaltine, Horlicks and Caro.

Fermented products - alcoholic drinks, ginger beer, vinegar and all foods cotnaining vinegar (ketchups, pickles, salad creams, baked beans), soya sauce.

Cows milk and most milk product including cream and cheese (Cottage chees and live natural yoghurt are allowed)

Concentrated fruit juices and any cooked fruit eg stewed with sugar, jam marmalade. Peel all fruit.

Dried fruits - prunes, figs raisins, sultanans, dried bananas apricots etc.

Nuts - unless freshly cracked. Avoid peanuts and peanut butter which support the growth of mould.

Smoked or cured fish and meat including ham, bacon, smoked mackerel and smoked salmon.

Preservatives - these are frequently derived from yeasts or introduce a chemical substance to the body.

Mushrooms

Tea and coffee. Drink herbal teas or Barlecup

Hot spices - the irritate the lining of the intestine

ninja1 · 03/02/2004 12:31

OMG - It's worse than detoxing

Right I'll try and think through some recepies

I was reading that even pets could have a yeast infection and be pepetuating it!! Should I really get my cat checked out? I think I'll have to go and check out dp's feet (I try not to go anywhere near them) to see if he has atheletes foot. I hadn't htought that that could be carrying it on.

Better go back to work.

And thatnks for that list (well thanks for typing it in - not sure if I can do it)

VN

Wills · 03/02/2004 13:40

Things you can eat. The sheet actually says "enjoy" before each line but I'll leave that out because half this stuff I'm not sure how the word "enjoy" can be associated with it!

Yeast-free bread made with wholewheat glour or other grains, i.e. soda bread or sourdough rye. Village Bakery (at waitrose) or a very good rye loaf

Rice cakes, oak cakes (malt free), original Ryvita ( not brown, it is malted), Ryvita with sesame seeds, wholemeal crsipbreads (read labels carefully).

Pastry made with wholemeal flour or other grains

Soya milk (sugar free), Rice milk (Rice Dream) or coconut milk (diluted one quarter with water). You will quickly adapt to it on cereal and when cooked with oats or rice it becomes really creamy

Unhydrogenated margarines - Vitasieg or Vitaquell

Plain natural yoghurt - any 'live' variety

Cottage Cheese

Free range eggs

Salad - at least one large plate a day - make dressing out of olive oil and lemon juice, garlic and mixed herbs

Vegetables - eaten raw, steamed or stir fried

Avocados

Potatoes - cooked in many different ways. Lightly salted plain crisps are ok

Fruit - only after a couple fo weeks. Moderate amounts i.e. 3 pieces a day all must be peeled including apples, pears and other hard fruits

Other wholegrains for variety - brown rice, wild rice, millet, oats, buckwheat, barley, rye, Wholemeal pasta, rice pasta spelt pasta, corn pasta.

Fish, seafood, chicken and game. Red meat should be kept to a minimum and preferably organic

Herbs and mild spices i.e. cumin, coriander and tumeric

Drinks - herb teas, camomile tea, mint, ginger, cinnamon, ginseng, Rooibosch tea, hot water with a slice of lemon, Barleycup, V8 vegetable juice, still bottled mineral water, filtered tap water

Onions and garlic - obth of which are highly effective anti-fungal agents

Nuts and seeds - freshly shelled eg coconut, almond, cashew. Seeds - sunflower, pumpkin, and sesame. Avoid peanuts and pistachios

Pulses - beans, lentils, chick peas, i.e. humous

Extra virgin olive oil - use in dressings and to cook with. Avoid all refined oils i.e. any that look bright yellow on the supermarket shelves.

Wills · 03/02/2004 13:46

I'm not sure I can do it either. Talk more in later.

ninja1 · 03/02/2004 14:29

Sorry Wills - just a couple of questions:

  1. Does my dd have to follow this kind of diet as well? She hasn't shown any symptons of the thrush recently but if I've got it.... You might not have had to ask this if you've not started weaning

  2. Are you still using Daktarin cream and oral gel or have you gone cold-turkey? I stopped taking the diflucan but only had a couple of days left, but wasn't sure about the topical treatment.

Thanks again for all the work in typing out the lists.

I'll try and think up some fun and exciting recepies this evening.

As you say at least it's a good healthy diet

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but I don't really want to lose any more weightso I'll have to be careful to eat well and it's the lack of snacks that'll make it hard for me.

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