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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

I've had Thrush for 3 months - any ideas?

46 replies

ninjinglebells · 31/01/2004 18:02

DD is 6 months and I've had thrush for 3 months.

First dpctor didn't give me enough treatment, second time I got the whole 300mg loading dose + 100mg twice a day of flucanazole + daktarin cream and gel for her. Third time I got a maintenance dose of 50 mg per day for a month and nyastatin cream (and oral suspension) - just to try something different!! I bathe my breasts in bicarb, eat lots of bio yoghurts and wash towels frequently

The nyastatin did seem slightly better but I still have thrush, still have open cracked nipple, feeding is still anywhere between sore and agony and all the medicine is running out

WHAT CAN I DO NOW?

I want to carry on bfeeding but I don't know if I can put up with another 3 months of this so any ideas would be greatfuly received

ps I really must change my christmas name

OP posts:
Wills · 03/02/2004 14:39

Must admit the lack of sweet stuff is going to be bloomin hard. The advice is to carry on with the fluconazol (difulcan). To me the advice was

Carry on with 200mg until you have no symptons for a week. Cut down to 100mg for a week - again no symptons. Cut down to 50mg again for a week with no symptons. If symptons re-appear go back up to the higher dose. Yes I'm continuing to use the oral stuff but I'm also being given powder to rub onto my nipples for dd2 to take in. She's given me two more pills one is called candigest and the other I'll have to tell you when it arrives but basically its a strong form of acidopholus (combats thrush in the gut).

Wills · 03/02/2004 14:59

Sorry had to pop off. For dd2 yes they must follow a similar diet. For me that's not difficult, dd2 doesn't like any fruit presented to her so far (can you believe that?) and she said for ease to postpone giving her wheat products for a little longer however I will email her later for a diet for an older child.

Janstar · 03/02/2004 15:28

Sorry I haven't read all this but....thrush is caused when one type of organism naturally present in your body begins to multiply more than usual and engulfs other types of natural flora. In the short-term doctors prescribe drugs which relieve the symptoms, but do not rebuilt the 'good' organisms to prevent a recurrence of thrush.

You can eat live yogurt and take Yakult and actimel which contain the organisms you need. But these really only contain enough for keeping you healthy on an everyday basis. You need a stronger dose of probiotics to rebuild your natural flora after an episode of thrush.

Go to your health food shop and buy a bottle of Acidophilus capsules. Take them morning and night. You won't see a difference immediately, but after a week or two you will have gradually restocked your probiotics and the thrush will go.

Continue to take an acidophilus capsule every couple of weeks to maintain the healthy balance.

Wills · 03/02/2004 16:47

Janstar - have been taking acidophilus 3 times a day for the last 6 months . How about you ninja1?

Wills · 03/02/2004 16:52

Mind you for the fortnight that I was in Florida and forgot to take it with me I certainly noticed a difference. Likewise at the beginning when I was still on nystatin I attempted to move to brown rice cut out bread etc it nearly worked - I think that I've forgotton that. This gives me hope that rather than follow the plan religiously I can adapt it. Cut down on sugar, cut bread out, try to use brown rice/past etc. My dh is all for me following it religously for a couple of weeks - don't know, have to find time to go to the supermarket and find half the produce.

valleygirl · 03/02/2004 16:57

the only way to get rid of persistent thrush in my experience is to take diflucan - you'd have to check if you can take it whilst breastfeeding, but for me, as someone who suffered on and of for months, one tablet and it was gone.
i then made sure i took acidophilus capsules twice a day to make sure my flora was well balanced. It is also possible to go to health food shops and get anti-fungal supplements - can't remember what i took, but it may be a natural alternative to diflucan if it doesn't go with bf.
it's miserable - you have my total sympathy!

Wills · 03/02/2004 17:07

Hi valleygirl. Difulcan and fluconazol are the same thing. I'm on 200mg of it a day and long term side affects are not good. The commercial over the counter level is only 100mg. I passed a road the other day called "Thrush Avenue" ugh !

valleygirl · 03/02/2004 17:36

my bf sister had really bad candida of the gut and had to totally change her diet - no beer, anything yeasty - everything that you mentioned in the to eat and not to eat list - but she seems to have gotten over it, but it did take a long time. i think she did it the complately natural way though. No drugs. But it the diflucan isn't working what does the doctor think is the main problem?
have you been to a herbalist or an alternative medicine practitioner? even chinese medicine might be worth a go?

ninja1 · 03/02/2004 18:47

Oh I don't know what to do know about the flucanazole - when I was on 200mg a day it had started to work, but now I've been on 50mg a day for the last month and it hasn't - I hoped I wouldn't have to go and ask for more. I guess it's back to the doctor. What is considered long term in terms of side effects?

I might just stay off for a week or 2 and see how it goes - if I do then have to go on it might be more effective (or am I just fooling myself) - it is better then it was before christmas - I can feel myself getting all itchy just thinking about it

Off to eat some wholewheat pasta with avocado and cottage chesse - think it's about all I have in that's on the OK list

Be good - no wine, no sugar - it'll be worth it

Utka · 03/02/2004 19:00

I had terrible problems with a deep breast thrush infection following the use of antibiotics to clear up a bout of mastitis in week 3. The infection lasted until week 16, and made feeding excruciating - like burning hot oil running through both breasts, before, during and after feeding. I do so sympathise!!!

In my case, I don't think it was a diet thing, although interestingly I do eat a lot of the 'bad' things at the top of the lists shown below. Mine was also not due to poor positioning - something which you do need to get checked out, if only to ensure that health professionals take your cries for help seriously.

My GP was very unsympathetic - basically disbelieving that deep breast thrush infections were possible. IHO they could only be surface infections. There wasn't any point in my taking something orally, as not enough of it would reach my milk ducts, apparently.

From week 3 - week 15, I went through various nystatin courses (cream for me, oral suspension for dd) none of which worked. Despite ample literature provided by a fantastic NCT b/f counsellor and the BFN, my GP wouldn't proscribe anything else. It seems that flucanazole has been tested on women, and infants, but not on b/f mums, so he was reluctant to proscribe. Also, most of the studies are American. Eventually, though, I got an appt with a locum who was rather more rational, and whom I managed to convince to let me try something else. He calculated that if the dose was OK for infants, it had to be ok for babies being breastfed, as the amount they'd get would be so small. He proscribed me flucanazole.

The crazy thing was that all it took was 1 tablet of Diflucan (if I'd known it was commercially available, I would have bought it myself I was so desperate!!). It cleared up within 2 days.

I appreciate that GPs have to be careful about what they prescribe, and mine was extremely apologetic after the event. The good thing was that my HVs used the case to 'educate' the GPS about the incidence of deep breast thrush infections. They said that the problem is that most mums in that much pain just give up b/f, so GPS don't tend to see many people needing treatment. Hence there aren't enough people to test out particular courses of action and draw conclusions.

I don't know if my experience helps, other than to underline that there are others who've been through it. I went on to b/f dd until she was 10 months old, and decided to give up herself, and I'm so proud I stuck it out. I'm not sure I could have gone on much longer though, and I can see why many people would have given up sooner. I think I'm just a bit bloody minded!!

I hope you get the support you need.

Wills · 03/02/2004 20:14

Utka, its lovely to hear your story. For me its nice to know that there are others. Its been obvious to me from early on that its fairly rare for thrush to be such a major issue and although I've talked about it from time to time on mumsnet I was reluctant to say too much because I don't really want to "scare" people. If I'd have thought at week 3 of breast feeding that at week 26 I would still have it I would have given up straight away. In fact the hope that I will beat this soon i.e. possibly the symptons will go next week or the week after is what has kept me going for so long. I hate to say it but I echo ninja1's sentiments that its a relief to discover someone else struggling like me.

I'm not in the medical profession and unfortunately my gp is often not revealing (although recently she's suddenly become supportive for some reason). She is of the opinion that I should give up breast feeding at which point the thrush will return to the gut where it is of course supposed to live. The nutrionist yesterday however was of the opinion that the candida has been allowed to flare for so long that it would remain completely unbalanced in my gut and give me side effects such as chronic tiredness (like I could tell the difference since dd2 is not sleeping through the night!). The same would apply to dd2 unless I help her through my diet to redress the balance as Janstar eloquently put it. I asked an associate of my mothers to look up the side effects of Fluconazol (Difulcan) and was told that the company had reported liver damage and that the quantity of fluconazol being taken by the mother is being passed at the same level across to the baby. This did of course panic me, however no-one has given me any figures. It could of course be a one in a million chance for all I know. Your information about the babies being fed fluconazol at this level safely has confirmed something the nutrionlist said last night that confused me - thankyou. It appears that tests have been run on women and tests on babies and that fluconazol has been deemed safe however because tests have not been run on breast feeding mothers the product cannot be licenced for us. I remain a little confused and will continue to ask questions so hopefully will one day get a fuller picture.

Ninja1 - in my opinion you shouldn't let the candida build up, however I'm not an expert. I will endevear to ask that sort of question to the nutrionlist when I eventually find the card with her email address that I came home with last night (suspect dd1).

Wills · 03/02/2004 20:18

Out of interest ninja1 is your dd particularly dribbly? Mine permanently has her tongue out and I go through four or five bibs a day and they're soaked. No one had a reason until last night. The nutrionist said that her gut had been aggrevated by the thrush and of course would be generating mucus and that she needed to get rid of this excess mucus - honestly there have been times when I've come to the conclusion that I've given birth to a puppy dog - her pink tongue never goes in.

ninja1 · 03/02/2004 20:40

Hi Wills, no dd isn't particulrly dribbly although her tongue is often out. As I say while I spotted the symptons first in her - I haven't seen them again since they first left (which I guess is 'cos her treatment continues to be effective)

My first doctor told me to 'prove him wrong' when he prescribed the first lot of diflucan (without the loading dose and for 7 days only) and I did, the second time the nurse wrote the prescription and got the doctor to sign it, but the pharmasist made a mistake with some of the tablets so I was short a couple of days, the third time I have to say the doctor was supportive but I was only asking for the maintenance dose having been on the higher dose for a while. I probably will try and go back to see the supportive one and see what he suggests but I feel like I'm going round in circles with the medicine.

The breast feeding group told me (and I'm trying to get this right) that finishing the diflucan (or it might have been being on it) can also give the deep breast pains. I have to say that I haven't had that pain after feeding for the last couple of days so part of me is feeling positive (just like I felt the last 2 times I started new medication - ha ha)

I must admit that before Christmas I had given myself a week for things to improve before I gave up. The combination of breast pains, tender nipples and nibbling teeth just meant every feed brought tears to my eyes, I was afraid to go out in case she needed to feed, and the night times when she wanted to feed every couple of hours.... add to that as Misspastry so delicately put it the 'usual' type of thrush and I was so close to stopping. Her starting to wean has helped a lot; there's so much less pressure on my breasts and body. I just want to get to that magic year (and when I get there I'm sure I'l just want to go a little bit longer!)

Sorry I'm waffling on but it just feels good to get it off my chest - I can only imagine how much longer it's seemed for you, particularly with a younger baby.

Well marking calls, and a snack of? More pasta?

misspastry · 05/02/2004 20:53

HI Ninja1 and Wills

i have just been catching up on your stories and am still in awe of you two wonderful ladies!!. to update you on feeding my son, i am so very sorry, spent 4 days crying about the decision to give up bf.

I went to the GP's twice seeing diferent GP's, once for Nystatin oral for ds (which seems to clearing well) and antibiotics for me as mastitus also arrived and topical cream for boobs, they wouldnt give me anything else as not licencesed...

I have been to hell and back with both the physical pain and the emotional pain with feeding, boobs are still very sore, but I'm beginging to feel a bit more emotionally stable. I know that this will be a life time regret with my second son, but such is life I guess.

Just out of interest, did either of you have drug free delieveries, 'cos your pain tolerance levels must be incrediable !!

Wills · 08/02/2004 17:58

misspastry you are very sweet to think I had a pain free delivery. I wont go into my deliveries but you did make me laugh. Whatever you do DONT feel guilty. Like I've said below its the belief that maybe, just maybe it'll be gone next weekthat keeps me going. To be honest I'm close to throwing in the towel as I'm back on blasted anti-biotics as my cold moved onto my chest and I gained a chest infection. As a chronic asthmatic I had to give in - grrrr.

ninja1 · 08/02/2004 22:53

I wasn't pain free either and I think the fact that I wasn't madw me more determined to continue. I think it would have been a lot harder if BF hadn't already ben established.

Wills - how's the diet going? I kep looking longingly at everything sweet - but generaly am being pretty good. Reckon I'll have to go to the doctor tomorrow though and get all drugged up again. Hope that you're feeling better

Wills · 09/02/2004 09:26

Definitely feeling better, have almost got my voice back - just can't sing the high notes yet . Given that I'm on antibiotics things are going remarkedly well, in fact I'm stunned how well. I've engorged only once so far - I've found this to be a long term side effect of having thrush. I suspect that the tubes become aggrevated and swell thus blocking very easily. I used to be blocking every two to three days so I'm reasonably impressed.

As for the diet - I hate it. I've converted to soda farls as they don't have yeast however I need to find a recipe because I need to make them myself so as to use wholemeal flour rather than white. I get a craving for sugar mid-afternoon and find it really difficult at that point, but the worst I've been is a bite from dh's banana so over all am doing ok. I'm trying to go "atkins" because latest research says that loads of protien in your diet reduces your "hunger", can't say I've noticed yet....

Ho humm

ninja1 · 10/02/2004 08:29

I've 'finished up' the odd bit of banana as well - I think of all fruit it's probably the least offensive! had the odd taste of cheese too but only a tiny bit. Discovered sesame rivita though which are yummy with houmous

definitely not getting worse and possibly a slight improvement, and I've been recommended a herbalist who treated someone else with resistant thrush so I'll go and see them today

Glad you're feeling better, the antibiotics might well help prevent the mastitas symptons so I guess that could be a bonus

ninja1 · 12/02/2004 11:08

Wills, IT'S WORKING. For the first time I'm actually starting to heal up which must mean the Thrush is going, no more pains, my nipples are starting to look more normal and it has to be the diet.

Just hope I haven't spoken too soon!!

Hope that you're feeling better

Twinkie · 12/02/2004 11:17

Not sure if this helps at all but I saw in Boots yesterday that they have started doign Canestan Wipes.

ninja1 · 01/03/2004 18:11

Just wondering how you're doing Wills? Mine are hegtting better all the time - in fax-ct I've started to eat dairy again (hope I won't regret it) hope you're having success

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