BFing a 1 week-old newborn....does all of this sound normal??

[DangerMousey]

Hello ladies,

This time last week I was in labour giving birth to my beautiful son, DC1. I love the little man to bits but am finding the whole feeding-on-demand/sleeping (or lack thereof) pretty difficult and overwhelming. Wondered whether any of you wise ladies could offer any reassurance that the following are normal and that I will somehow survive the sleep deprivation!!:

• DS seems to want to feed almost constantly in the wee hours of the night...from between about 11pm and 5am, he will take a boob for about 35-40 mins, have a 20 minute break, and then cry and take the other one for 35-40 mins....and so on and so on. Do i just need to ride this out?Will it change of it's own accord or do I have to try and institute a routine?

• He feeds much less frequently during the day....in fact, if we dont wake him up, he would go 4 hours between feeds during the day. Should we be waking him up sooner for day feeds?? (it is tempting not to, cos its the only time me and DH can get an hour or so's sleep).

• I cannot settle DS to sleep at any time of the day or night, unless he is literally on me (ie resting on chest having just dropped nipple out of his fully-fed mouth)....is this cos he can smell my milk?? My DH seems to have a magic touch and can rock him to sleep but I seem to have no chance :-(

Any reassurance/thoughts most welcome.

All sounds normal to me. It will settle down.

I probably wouldn't bother waking for day feeds, 4 hours isn't excessive, I don't think? And he sounds like he's feeding a lot at night anyway. Are you co sleeping? I think this helped DS get the idea of when night and day was :)

If he's only feeding 4 hourly in the day, then he probably has to make up for it at night! Babies aren't born knowing day from night, but you can gently teach them the difference - I would feed every couple of hours in the day, I never let my DS sleep more than 3 hours in the day time in the hope he'd sleep longer at night. I also kept day time feeds and naps in light, noisy rooms and night feeds in dark, quiet rooms.

The cluster feeding is pretty normal, and should get shorter. You could try getting it a bit earlier in the evening, by sitting on the sofa at, say 8pm and offering lots of feeds while you watch TV.

Newborn babies are programmed to sleep on you, as close to the breast as possible! Also totally normal.

I'd try to switch it round, feed him all day not all night or he will get used to it.

I think differently about daytime sleep in noisy light rooms, I think it should be in a dark room and where they sleep at night, that way they are used to sleeping there, get a good sleep, and therefore are less likely to be fretful in the night which can be because they are overtired.

You ask if you have to try and institute a routine? Yes is my answer or you will be back here asking what to do with a much older baby who will not sleep on their own, will only be fed to sleep and wants feeding all night still.

Wake him in the morning, feed him in the day lots and lots, encourage good daytime sleep it will help at night, but don't let him sleep for 4 hours at a time. The cluster feeding wants to be in the early evening, and then put him to bed at 7/8pm.

Trust me a routine works!

At this age he doesn't know day from night. Agree with others, keep nights dark and quiet and daytime bright and noisy.

Try not to let him go more than every 3 hours in the day and take him outside in the light at least once every day, even if its the last thing you feel like doing. If DH is off you could always feed him and get DH to change him and take him out for walk while you get an hours kip.

If you want to read some information that might reassure you try googling kellymom feeding your newborn. I can also recommend a book called Babycalming by Caroline deacon and have you got the dr sears baby book?

I'd be feeding 2 hourly during the day. Baby is working to get your milk supply going, and the hormones are different at night which is why they feed more then, but putting him to your breast more during day will help

Yes, I would feed two-hourly during the day - it does sound like he's topping up at night. Don't do the whole 'blackout for sleeps during the day' thing or you'll find yourself still trailing round with portable blackout blinds when he's three because he can't sleep in any kind of light! Napping in daylight helps them differentiate day from night. Also getting outside for lots of daylight (hard at this time of year I know) helps too.

The cluster feeding is normal - you'll probably find that it starts to concentrate itself into the evenings between about 6 and 9, and you might find that he wants to feed every 20 minutes during this time.

Don't bother trying to institute a routine this young - they're changing on a daily basis (the rate of development in the first nine months is nearly as fast as when they were gestating in the womb - and you know the difference a few weeks makes there) and can't form memories this young anyway. Therefore can't form habits or routines. They find their own rhythm after about 12 weeks and every baby will be slightly different.

It's important to remember that babies this young are actually very sensible - they know what they need when they need it - but you can help things along a little.

Agree totally about not trying to instil a routine and it doesn't mean no sleep forever. Both of mine found a sort of rhythm by themselves after a few weeks and although DS was a terrible sleeper for a long time it was for medical reasons and no routine can eliminate those .

I disagree they can form routines at this stage, I have done this with all 3 DC. They have all always had a long sleep in a dark room in the afternoon, and I have never taken a blackout blind anywhere with me, although I guess that depends where you might be going and how often!

I think the important thing to think about is are you happy to go with the flow for 12 weeks as suggested above, or would you prefer to be having a decent nights sleep yourself within a month or so?

Ah the joys of overnight cluster feeding, he is setting up your supply, all be it at a very unsociable time. I agree with the other good advice, try waking him 2 hourly during the day and keeping it light and noisy.

Different people like doing different things and the thought of having to stay home every afternoon because loo needed to sleep in a dark room would drive me crackers. One of the beauties of bfing is that you don't actually need a routine. There is no need to worry about how long you will be out for and how much formula to take, you'll have it all with you.

My dd also slept very well from a very early age, she did of course have night feeds but I more or less slept through them. Our next door neighbour had a ff baby who was in a strict routine 2 weeks before our dd arrived. She would cry all night while we would all get a good nights sleep. They kept asking us how we did it as they never heard our dd.

Yes indeed people do have different ways of doing things.

We go out all morning and spend 2-3 hours at home on the afternoon, before school run and after school activities.

OP has asked for opinions so probably best she gets a range.

My 3 DC have slept without night feeds from 5-7 weeks, that is from 11-7am and without a dream feed from 7-12 weeks just sleeping 11-12 hours.

Totally agree that different people do things differently and its good to get a range of opinions. My bf did virtually the same as me and both of hers slep through from 2 weeks but she knows that but this isn't the norm, she is just very, very lucky

Danger how are you getting on today?

hey ladies thanks for all your replies. Man, this is much harder than I ever anticipated!

Last night was bloody difficult. He fed:

midnight - 0100 breast
0115 - 0200 breast (then slept on my chest on the sofa for 45 mins)
0245 - 0300 breast
0330 - 0400 breast
0430 - DH gave him 30ml of formula from a little cup out of desperation :( Cue much hormonal crying.
0445 - 0510 breast
0530 - another 30ml formula after he had been screaming non stop
0600 - caved in and gave him a dummy :(

In between each feed he was fractious and very upset, even for DH who usually has more luck soothing him than me, as he doesn't smell of milk. He finally fell asleep at about 0630.

So today i have tried to follow all you ladies' good advice and have been feeding him every 2 - 2.5 hours. Even if it's meant waking him up to feed. And we managed to get an hour's sleep earlier in between his 12 noon and 2pm feeds. Am gonna keep this going all evening and hopefully see some kind of difference in the night tonight.

Really hope we see some kind of difference cos I am not sure how many nights more like that I can do. I felt so disappointed with myself for caving and giving the formula but was at my wits end.

He has seemed fine on the breast today though so hopefully I've not totally fucked it all up :(

Don't think you have messed things up at all. Are you still under the mw Danger it is probably worth giving them a call and asking them to check your latch and to check Lo for tongue tie. Nim not saying there is anything wrong but it may be worth eliminating any problems.

If he is sleeping with you it's far safer to do this in bed than on the sofa, and means that you can get some rest too. Did the mw give you the guidelines on safe bed sharing?

DangerMousey please don't try to 'train' your LO into a routine. The reason he's cluster feeding at night is because it's the night feeds that keep your supply going/boost your supply when there's a growth spurt. Mine is 5 weeks and exactly the same, and he's a very happy baby indeed. If you want some structure, try an evening routine of bath, long feed and bed starting around 6ish and see how that sets LO up for the night (this is what I do currently).

(Btw I'm not some wishy-washy, hippy-dippy mum; I'm a teacher and huge believer in strict routines, boundaries and expectations. It's just that babies have evolved over millions of years to demand what they need).

Yoko - while you might not like to 'train' your baby into a routine, it doesn't mean that others won't want to or won't find that it works for them.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that babies are not to be given what they need if you choose to follow a routine.

I also think it's important to remember that adults sleep needs and their daily demands are different, and just because one person may say they are happy with feeding lots in the night, doesn't mean that others are, or that it won't affect them much more.

I don't think I could have gone on for months and months feeding through the night. As it happens all 3 DC are happy and healthy and slept well right form the start. Most recently the youngest is 7 months and people are always telling me what a happy little boy he is, (just like your baby) he slept for 11 hours without feeding from 7 weeks. He may have been good like this anyway or it may be that I 'trained' him as you put it, by encouraging good sleep habits and very regular daytime feeding and structured daytime sleep.

DangerMousey, fingers crossed for a better night tonight, in my experience once you crack the feeding all day not night, you start to see a good pattern emerging!

Thoughts - absolutely, horses for courses. DS had bad jaundice so I had to feed him every 2 hours day and night for the first few weeks, which has given me a different perspective. And I'm generally a routine-y person, but I just think there's so much pressure around sleeping through etc. that it's important to point out that cluster feeding at night is normal at first.

Is it pressure to sleep through though, or just parents asking for advice because they are bloody tired?

I have never cluster fed at night, I have cluster fed from about 4-7pm.

I'm genuinely not trying to be dogmatic or contradictory or argumentative, just to reassure OP that my experience (and that of my friends and their babies) is similar to hers- and that night time cluster feeding is normal and not a failure.

Chill and go with it has worked for us, 3 1/2 weeks in. The night i dropped my expectations was the night ds slept in 3 hour stretches. He's by no means perfect, but things are improving. Dp and i take turns to be the one in charge so the other can rest properly.

Routine or not, co-sleeping or insisting on the crib, things are a thousand times worse when you put unnecessary pressure on yourself to get your baby to be perfect!

I am certainly not saying anything about failure, expectations or perfect babies, simply offering my thoughts and experiences.

If someone is tired and asks for practical advice I'll offer my view, if it helps great, if it's not what they're after hopefully they'll find an idea that is.

My view is to guide towards a routine early on, not about expectations or failure, I don't understand why it has to be a failure if something doesn't go to plan, tweak the plan a little and try again!

Oops, sorry, meant my own expectations needed adjusting I stopped expecting my then week old baby to sleep when i wanted him to and trusted that the melatonin combined with his stomach growing plus calm night environment would eventually sort things out. It did, but the biggest factor has been my reduction in stress rather than the outside factors.