How do I get from scenario A to scenario B? (breastfeeding/sleep)

[kickingking]

Not sure if this is a breastfeeding or sleep post - please move it if it's in the wrong place. Basically I have a 3 week old who is exclusively breastfed.

Scenario A is what happens at the moment, Scenario B is what I want to happen.

Scenario A: DS2 asleep in pram in living room, wakes up or is woken around 10pm for a feed. Then put to bed in Moses basket in our bedroom. I then try to go to bed myself. DS2 fusses and won't settle (despite sleeping soundly in his pram downstairs all day), makes groaning and strange bleating noises until I feed him again. Repeat until about midnight. Eventually falls asleep in Moses basket and I get to sleep as well.

Wakes at 2/3am for a feed, I take him downstairs so as not to disturb DH and DS1. Feed him on sofa, usually fall asleep and wake up in a panic that I've endangered DS2 by falling asleep with him on my lap on a widgey cushion. DS2 is asleep so try to put him back in Moses basket upstairs, whereupon he starts groaning and fussing again. Have argument with DH about whether or not DS2 is hungry again, which usually results in DH suggesting we bottle feed him .

Eventually feed DS2 again, put him in Moses basket, groans and fusses for ages so DH and I cannot sleep. Eventually falls asleep and I get an hours sleep in my bed until I have to get up with DS1.

Scenario B: DS2 fed about 10pm, he gets put to bed in Moses basket and goes straight to sleep. I go to bed. Wakes up for next feed, I feed him downstairs WITHOUT FALLING ASLEEP, then go back upstairs and put DS2 in Moses basket and we both go to sleep. Repeat as required.

So, how do I get from A to B? B is more or less what happened with DS1. I want to sleep in my bed! I'm scared by the falling asleep on the sofa with a baby. Co-sleeping is not an option for us, DH is a deep sleeper and throws his arms and legs around a bit while asleep . The biggest mystery to me is why DS2 will sleep contentedly in his pram all day, but seems to dislike his Moses basket.

Is there anywhere else you could feed DS2 without having to go downstairs? Falling asleep on the sofa with the baby is a huge risk factor for SIDS. Your baby is much safer in bed with you, on the side facing away from DH than he is with you accidentally falling asleep on sofa. Even just a single mattress on the floor of your bedroom or something? Or if DH is a deep sleeper, just feed sitting up in bed perhaps? Sorry to sound so ominous, but my Dad and I both deal with parents who have lost babies to SIDS in our jobs, and neither of us can remember the last time it didn't involve a sofa.

Time and earplugs deal with the rest. Most newborn babies are incredibly groany noisy bloody sleepers. Get some really good earplugs to dampen the noise and only respond to actual demands for food. Other things people suggested to us were warming the cot first, white noise, but what worked was time really. DS is now 18 weeks and has gone from refusing to sleep anywhere except my armpit to sleeping 6.30-6.30 in his crib, just coming out for feeds. We just followed his cues.

I had a similar problem with ds who is now 6 months. I fed downstairs in night for a few nights but as you are began worrying about falling asleep etc. also i found bringing bringing baby downstairs was stimulating him more and made getting him back to sleep harder. I decided feeding him sat up in bed best option. You can scoop him up quickly, latch him on, feed him and put him back down before he has even woken fully. DH decided initially to sleep downstairs on the sofa so he wasn't disturbed in night when getting up early for work. Or if you have a spare room can dh sleep in there for a few weeks maybe?

Agree with the others, if DH doesn't want his sleep disturbing he can find somewhere else to sleep .

Also agree that taking him downstairs at night can be stimulating for him. Have you tried swaddling?

I know that falling asleep on the sofa with a baby is very dangerous, that's why I want to stop it happening.

There's really nowhere else for DH to go, we're in a small two bed house. The other bedroom is DS1's room. DH is tall, he'd never fit on a sofa to sleep! I am trying to avoid disturbing his sleep as much as possible as he drives to work on the motorway.

I never really mastered feeding in bed with DS1, but will give it another try.

I'm sure you are right about time - maybe DS1 wasn't sleeping that well at three weeks...

agree, you need to stop feeding on the sofa full stop. it really is dangerous

i would either:

take side off cot and push up to bed so you can co-sleep without losing space. feed in bed and pop him into the cot.

or, push your bed up to the wall and sleep with baby between you and the wall.

neither of those options will be affected by how heavy a sleeper your DH is, and are infinitely safer than falling asleep with him on the sofa on a cushion.

Is it possible bub has (silent) reflux? because that is exactly what happened to me (minus the sofa).
Ensure a good burp after feeding. This can take ages esp. with reflux baby so try different positions a few mins each one, as who knows where that air is hiding. there maybe be more than one burp esp. as baby gets older. gentle pressure on tummy and lower back at same time often worked for us. or lying baby down for few mins and re-pick up.

Offer further feed if still wanted and then hold up straight for 30 mins. This sounds so long, and it is- I could reduce this later to 20 then 5mins by not trying to stretch feeds (so milk little and often) and baby gaviscon esp. night. Also when making grunting noises when lying flat maybe hold up for 5 mins at that point as milk may be settled in oesophagus even if tummy is more empty by then. Tilt moses sightly basket by putting books under head end. Comfort feeding can help pain as swalowing means milk goes down not up but not if they are gulping loads- baby may vomit if too much or projectile if reflux becme non-silent.
If you want you could try settling with dummy (for swallowing) straight after feed once breastfeeding going well. This is also a recommended action against sids.

I hope it's not that as it is such a sleepless pain for everyone but just try this a couple of nights and see if it helps. I gather DS1 was ok though.

I'm sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear, but I just don't see that there is a workable solution that involves continuing to feed on the sofa.

Everything is working against you here. It is the middle of the night, you are tired, and your body is producing sleepy hormones,especially with the breastfeeding. The only thing likely to stop you falling asleep is creating a more stimulating environment - bright lights, tv, etc. The problem is, this will also stimulate your DS and stop him sleeping too. (I also agree with others that going upstairs is probably stimulating him). I know friends who MN or whatever on their iPhones, but I don't think a bright light near a baby's face is the best plan!

I don't mean this rudely, but I don't understand why your DH's needs seem to be coming above the needs of you and your son? Is he asking you to do this, or is it a burden you are creating for yourself by making assumptions about how much he would be disturbed? We live in a two bed house. DH has always shared a room with us- and both my daughters are/were rubbish sleepers.

If you DH needs to sleep elsewhere, there must be someone. I have a small two bed house too, so I do sympathise, but an air bed in the living room? A mattress on the floor in your son's room? Earplugs?

You're right,YoullLaughAboutItOneDay it's not working.

I devised this system for night feeds while I was pregnant. DH hasn't asked me to do this. I thought it would work best as I didn't want to feed DS in bed for several reasons - mainly that I never mastered feeding lying down with DS1 and that I didn't want to disturb DH too much because he works long-ish hours and drives to work via the motorway.

With DS1, he slept in our room for six months but I used to take him into the nursery and feed him in a chair there, which worked out fine. Not an option now as the nursery is now a 5 year old's bedroom!

I think I have two options: feed DS2 in bed, or try feeding him in the playroom - the nursing chair that I used with DS1 is now in there. I think it's quite likely that I will fall asleep there too, though. I'm not sure how I managed to avoid falling asleep with DS1 - I think it only happened once in four months of night feeds .

You didn't have a toddler, so you probably weren't so exhausted!

ps. Do you have any particular questions about feeding lying down that someone might be able to help with? It really shouldn't disturb your DH to do it once you've got the knack, because it's a pretty silent and still activity . Also, provided you set yourself up as if you were co-sleeping (baby your side - with bed guard if needed - covers down out of the way, arm between baby and pillow) it's not a disaster if you do drift off.

if you think it's likely you will fall asleep in the chair then please don't do it!

you can slump foward, baby can roll in towards you... really, it's just so dangerous.

i would def try feeding lying down again. I never got it with my first, but somehow managed it with my second, it just took a bit of practice.
if you're going to feed sitting up then why not just do it in bed? at least then if you're feeling sleepy you can put baby down in his crib

I did the same as you're doing with DD1, it was soooo tiring. I remember nights sitting up feeding for hours.

With DD2 (2.5 weeks) I feed her in our bed on a horseshoe shaped pillow. I'm sitting up with a little light on (this doesn't wake DH) and I read a mag to keep awake. It takes about 1-1.5hrs but then I know DD2 will go off and I can sleep. I agree a good wind is key to getting that final settle down.

It's tough when you're tired. Another thought, could you use the pra

whoo ps- could you use the pram to settle at night?

Perhaps the moses basket mattress isn't very comfortable, just a thought.

I also used to MN on my phone during the night to stay awake, the light didn't bother DD as it was behind her.

In the early weeks I would feed my daughter on a chair in our bedroom. Not a fancy nursing/rocking chair, just a chair with a pillow on it. Mainly because I'd had an episiotomy so sitting up in bed was uncomfy, but I also worried about falling asleep while feeding. Now I just sit up in bed with bedside light on and look on my phone during night feeds. I don't make eye contact or talk to baby. Just feed, and back to sleep. My husband has got used to it, and now doesn't even wake up (she's 16 weeks now).

You mention a playroom, is that a downstairs room? Could DH sleep there on a single mattress/sofa bed? Or failing that, you and DS2 could sleep there?

I do use my phone when I feed DS2, but I still fall asleep . I used to read a book with DS1, maybe I need to do that.

Playroom is tiny, floor space probably smaller than a single mattress. Shorter, at least.

I don't think we would be able to get our bed against a wall - do bed guards go across double beds?

Yes, advice on feeding lying down would be good. I always felt with DS1 that I needed bigger boobs for that when breastfeeding I'm a 34D and quite pert, and it was like I couldn't get my nipple at the right level?

Agree about the winding. I an shit at winding babies, I'm not patient enough. Must try harder!

Bed guards go along the length of one side of the bed, rather than across. They basically just clip on the side to stop the baby (who should be on the outside rather than between the two parents) from rolling out.

If your nipple is too high when feeding lying down, you need to roll over slightly. You would be lying on your side. Try dropping your top knee over the top and slightly twisting your top half (sounds dead awkward when I explain it, but it's actually how a lot of 'side sleepers' sleep anyway, not totally on one side). You can do a more extreme version to feed from the top boob without rolling over (my boobs are big -and saggy-, but if I can get my top nipple to reach, you can do the bottom one ).

I know it's a personal thing, but I always feel that waking yourself up as much as possible is not the best way to go with night feeds if you can master something else. Asleep- awake but dozy feed- asleep will make you feel far less sleep deprived, and you will fall back asleep faster, than if you are wide awake for every night feed. I know anecdote does not equal data, but it's the friends I know who faffed about with iPhones and books who quickly found night feeds desperate and the sleep deprivation hard - even if they were only waking as much as other people.

ps. If you start another thread about feeding lying down with pert boobs I can almost guarantee some experts out there!

i used to keep ds2 and ds3 up on my arm while i fed lying down.
so imagine how you cradle them in the crook of your arm, i'd do that, but lying down..

will see if i can see a pic that shows what i mean, it would bring baby up to the right height

like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&tbnid=3hLS0o6AG_uYuM:&imgrefurl=www.momzelle.com/blog/2010/02/6-breastfeeding-positions-worth-a-try/&docid=AXMB6fCIw8Yy1M&imgurl=www.momzelle.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2010/02/allaitement-bonne-positions-02-300x230.jpg&w=300&h=230&ei=k0eQT_zeK8qdOpT46YoE&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=386&vpy=156&dur=185&hovh=184&hovw=240&tx=54&ty=97&sig=107586612514469134853&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=180&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:69" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this

My dd does s lot of driving and dd is in the only other bedroom do I understand . I bf ds in bed, tge cot is next to my side of tge bed. I have a system for my pillows now do I can do it with one hand in one movement.

Another one who uses her phone to stop from sleeping.

My solution to night feeding DD2 during the night and staying awake was to use my kindle with the case that has the little light in it. Seems quite an expensive solution but you do get to keep the kindle afterwards and you can dowload parenting books in your desperation at 2am

Also I would say that with DD1 I didn't ask DH to get up in the night till she was 8 months old. With DD2 if she just wants a cuddle I make him take his turn. I am with the children all day and need to be just as on the ball travelling around with them. Perhaps you both need an earlier bedtime and perhaps it would be easier to settle your son in the moses basket at bedtime rather than waiting till 10pm when the edge might be taken of his tiredness.

Thinking about it a cheap solution would be a booklight!