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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Another breastfed baby not gaining - Tiktok, Mears, help!

56 replies

FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 21:40

Help please, not my baby but a friend's. Baby is nearly 5 months, not gained weight at last 2 weigh-ins and hv now says my friend must supplement with formula. Friend now thinks her milk is not good enough quality and that she must give a bottle to avoid baby becoming ill. She has a toddler, and said she doubted it would be possible when I suggested she tried feeding more often. The baby has been sleeping through for several weeks from about 7 to 7, so I wonder if this could affect my friend's supply, plus how can she fit in enough feeds during the day to make up for no feeds at night? I didn't remember to find out how many feeds exactly the baby is having but I know it is less than every 2 hours. I know the baby doesn't poo much, say once every two days - had a problem with constipation (?) they think. They have started baby rice to try to help with weight gain as well.

I feel very upset and helpless about all this - I am sure she is being given the wrong advice here, but it is so sensitive a subject and I feel I keep putting my foot in it. What should she be doing and how can I advise her without making her feel defensive or upset?

Any help very gratefully received...

OP posts:
motherinferior · 27/01/2006 21:43

Isn't it Penelope Leach (ahem) who recommends a 'feedathon'? Could you suggest some quite practical strategies (probably involving amusing/taking out said toddler) to make that happen?

Psychologically, would it be very bad to suggest strategies for her eating better so she's reassured about the 'quality of her milk' issue which is clearly a red herring but is obviously also stressing her out?

beansprout · 27/01/2006 21:45

There are people on here who know a lot more about this than me but could she see a counsellor about the latch? As I understand it, this is often the key to things. Sounds like she is feeding often enough at five months. It is easy to take your eye off things at five months as it all feels v established but it just could be the case that they have fallen into a bad habit?

Hopefully someone who knows more will be along soon. I wish them well, it must be difficult for her.

fannylover · 27/01/2006 21:45

breast fed babies dont poo much anyway... so that isn't an issue,. apparently they can go for up to 14 days without one!!! becase they absorb so much of the breastmilk that there isn't much waste.

i think the only thing she can do is try and fit more feeds in if she doesn;'t want to supplement. or could she express once the kids are in bed and top-up with that?

the problem with starting baby rice is that it will fill baby up but has FAR FAR FAR less calories than breastmilk.... so baby will end up taking less milk etc etc

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:45

I'm not an expert, but from personal experience (exclusively expressing for two babies) I know that the best way to bump up supply is to express/feed during the night; if she's very worried you could suggest a late night or very early morning express and to offer that to the baby during his/her waking hours? She might find it takes a bit of time for her breasts to 'learn' to make milk at the new time though (oh dear I sound like a loon!)

At 5 months old I don't think a little formula would hurt anyone, as long as it was after a feed... (fastasleep gets shot down in flames!)

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 21:47

Is that often enough at 5 months, do you think? You see this is all totally new to me - ds was a feeding monster, up all night, feeding all day, huge weight gain. I honestly don't know what is normal or what to advise for a baby who isn't seeming to get enough - how can this be??? I mean if the baby is hungry wouldn't she cry? I just don't understand how nature messes up like this...

OP posts:
fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:47

And tell her her milk is fine, and to stay away from vile baby rice as FL said, breastmilk is far more fattening!

If you want fattening try banana milkshakes with expressed milk.. (fastasleep gets shot down again! )

hercules · 27/01/2006 21:48

tell her to spend some time on kellymoms website

motherinferior · 27/01/2006 21:48

Ahem, just on the poo issue, the Inferiorettes pooed after every feed....

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:50

My 4 month old feeds every 3 hours.. but if she's cuddled or comfy she can go indefinately, when she was jaundiced she went for 6 hours between feeds which was very worrying, I think the less they eat the less they want, it's like stomach shrinkage or something... you have to really work to get more milk in the skinny runt babies... I have no idea how to do that while breastfeeding though, maybe the 'feedathon' would be the best way...

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 21:51

That's a great suggestion about the expressing fastasleep, I will mention that, but I guess she will need to be very committed to be doing that. About it not hurting to have a bottle, I don't know, doesn't it make it hard to keep your supply up? If she's already having supply problems anyway?

Starlover I did tell her about the baby rice having less calories but people seem to get in this mindset of just doing what the hvs say don;t they, it makes me want to weep...

OP posts:
Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 21:52

Yes MI my ds was also a pooing prodigy, one day we counted 24 poos, no joke when you are using cloth nappies.

OP posts:
fannylover · 27/01/2006 21:54

She may not be having supply issues... as fastasleep says.. baby may just be in the habit of only having that much.
it definitely won't hurt to express at night. it'll be just like doing an extra feed, and wll help stimulate her supply. as long as baby will take a bottle that is!

has baby been ill at all?
how has the weight gain been before the last 2 weeks?
were they worried previously?

If she has been gaining weight ok before this i'd be inclined to give it a couple more weeks to see how she goes instead of jumping in with supplements

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:54

It will hurt her supply, TBH probably less fuss if she wants to continue breastfeeding to express during the night, as with formula she'd have to be very careful when to do it, she'd have to make sure her breasts had just been emptied etc etc or she would end up making less... it easily turns into a vicious circle - I've been there!

I'm of the opinion (hypocrite alert!!) that what you feed your baby isn't that important, what's important is that your baby gets fed at all! The added stress of expressing on top of BF or going on feedathons might be too much for your friend, it's not easy at all breastfeeding/expressing for a baby with a toddler about - if it's going to stress her out then she shouldn't feel guilty about formula (try telling her that though!)

mears · 27/01/2006 21:56

A lot depends on what you mean by not gaining weight over 2 weigh-ins. How far apart were they? Was she naked or in same clothes? My DD did not actually gain weight for a month from 5-6 months and I got pressurised to start solids. However I knew my DD was absoultely fine so I just cattied on B/F.
If baby is otherwise well, and weight gain is the only issue, then I do not think formula is needed. However as information is second hand it is difficult to comment. If I had my babies again I would not get them weighed if I could help it. Weight alone is not an indicator of health.

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:57

My LO stayed on a straight line on his chart for about 4 months straight, he's clinically under-weight now even though he's 23 months and eats everything offered, he's very healthy and very happy and totally full of beans... that centile chart was never intended for use with breastfed children and will therefore never be acurate... if her baby is full of beans like mine was then she probably shouldn't worry overly much... she's not getting green nappies is she?

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 21:57

Thank you all for your help. I am really feeling down about this.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 27/01/2006 21:57

DS1 didn't gain weight at this age. He lost a couple of ounces between weigh-ins too.

Partly because he started sleeping better, partly because he was too damn nosy to feed all that well, partly because he was becoming more active, partly because he was a baby and they're funny buggers.

He's fine.

She should probably stop seeing her HV. Much better for stress levels.

Seriously - if the baby's alert, weeing, has a springy fontanelle (ykwim), she's very likely to be fine.

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:58

Mears one day I'm going to take your job

motherinferior · 27/01/2006 21:58

(One of the few times I got DD2 weighed the hvs got their knickers in a frightful twist and tried to get me to wean her or give her formula. I cried. Lots. It was horrible.)

fannylover · 27/01/2006 21:58

franny.... can you print this off and show it to her? just so that she knows she is doing ok

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 21:59

'Funny buggers' probably the best description of babies ever!

VeniVidiVulvaQV · 27/01/2006 21:59

FAZ

Firstly, TELL HER ABOUT MUMSNET FFS! She can get all the accurate advice and support she needs right here

Secondly - expressing after LO has gone to bed - say 10pm or something each night for a week will help up the supply, and in the meantime she can give the ebm in bottles to baby.

NO NO NO to babyrice or ANYTHING solid. If baby is having weight gain problems then the last thing it needs is the increased risk of digestive problems from weaning too early AND of course it is correct, there are less calories in baby rice than in milk.

at the HV...they should know better.

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 27/01/2006 22:00

Mears, I know it is hard passing this on 2nd hand. I believe her baby was weighed 2 weekly and for 2 weigh ins did not gain weight as expected. Otherwise as far as I know she is fine. Alert, happy, not skinny.

OP posts:
fastasleep · 27/01/2006 22:00

VeniVidi.....Vulva..? I don't want to know!

fastasleep · 27/01/2006 22:01

Not skinny? Ignore hypocritical adive on formula then she's doing fine! God I'd be a better HV than most of the ones out there and I have no qualifications at all