Bloody hypocritical NHS about breast/bottle feeding

[Somersaults]

When pregnant and a new mother I could definitely feel pressure from all the health care professionals I saw to exclusively breastfeed. Which was fine because I was planning on doing so anyway. And then since DD was born every HCP has nodded approvingly or looked delighted when they've asked how she's feeding and I said ebf.

I get to clinic yesterday to have her weighed, explain that she's had sickness and diarrhea for two days, and that I'd had it for another day and a half after that, but they still told me I should think about giving her a bottle of formula every day because she's only gained an ounce in the two weeks since she was last weighed and her weight has dropped below two centile lines from her birth weight.

Argh! Of course she's barely gained anything! She kept nothing down for two days and then I fed her for another day and a half without eating anything myself!

I just find it hypocritical that they push so hard for breastfeeding and the minute the baby doesn't gain the prescribed amount they start recommending formula! The book says that a child who falls anywhere within those centile lines is of a normal weight! It also says that they are expected to drop centiles if they are I'll but should be back on track within two to three weeks. Not two to three days like apparently my HV expects! And then, probably not on purpose but still, made me feel like I was doing something wrong by saying I wanted to continue to ebf. I've got to take her back next week when if she's not gained enough they'll tell me again to start giving her formula! I'm not bolshy enough to keep saying no so if that happens I'll end up stopping taking her to be weighed. I'll have to do it on my kitchen scales!

Hi Somersaults - just wanted to say I hope everything's improving.

I am in exactly the same boat since weighing my DS yesterday and being told the same thing. He too has been fussy and screamy since the appointment, and I'm still fretting despite feeling deep down everything's okay. I've really been put off taking him back to the clinic to be weighed - which I think is very sad.

I didn't sound the day in bed (but that sounds like a great plan for tomorrow) but spent the day with my ex mw family friend who took one look at her and said anyone can see she's absolutely fine! She said not to bother going back to clinic if I don't want to and that I definitely don't need to worry about how she's feeding. What'd good is that I spent almost twelve hours with her today so she got a really good idea of what DD is like on a normal day. I was more relaxed because I wasn't alone. She fussed and cried like she has done the past few days but I stayed calm because I had someone there with some expertise reassuring me. I feel so much better for it and I'm lucky I have someone like that I can go to. I think an NCT/LLL/Breastmates counsellor who could come to your house and sit with you, even for an hour, would be the next best thing.

It would be really nice to do some quality skin to skin time tomorrow though anyway I think. That sounds like a lovely day.

Thank you so much everyone.

:) I'm glad you're reassured.
I wish the HVs knew how much mothers believe their "advice" and attitude. :(

I know. It would be so easy to really worry about feeding and I do wonder whether that anxiety contributed to our fussy feeding since then in which case her comments about her needing to put on more weight will have had the opposite effect. I am feeling much calmer now though.

We've spent a lovely morning cuddling skin to skin in bed and what was so nice was seeing how much DD enjoyed it. Loads of gorgeous smiles and she's been in a lovely mood. We're going for a batt and a shower now and then packing for a weekend away visiting friends. I'm starting that early because this'll be our first trip with a baby and the list of things I need to organise is a mile long!

lovely :)
just what you needed.

Hi op, I am in the same position as you. Hv came out to my 33 week prem baby (now 38 + 5) on monday and said she was not gaining nearly enough weight (ebf) and sent us straight up to the hospital for bilirubin bloods and rang the bp for a prescription of nutri prem formula within ten mins. It was all I could do not to order her out of my home, but my DH was wanting to go along with her advice. She is 4 lb 15oz now and was 3 lb 12 oz born. I think that's fine for a 5 week old. Plenty of feeding going on here, plenty of wet and dirty nappies, contented little baby. But because she doesn't cry for her feeds she could be malnourished (hmm).

Well we tried two feeds of this formula (supposed to top her up after a twenty minute breastfeed) and she threw the lot back up. So I am not convinced it will make her gain anything.

Plus, with regards to her jaundice, she told me my lounge was too dark and I must make sure her skin is exposed to light as much as possible. Ell, considering the snow last week, sorry for keeping her wrapped up when outside and not in a bikini!! Stupid woman.

I was told by a midwife that research has said that daylight doesn't break down the bilirubin that causes jaundice anyway, but lots and lots of breastmilk is what flushed it out of their system. the daylight things is just old practice that people still recommend because they don't know any better.

I'm also having a traumatic time with weight gain issues for DS. He's nearly 3 weeks and we've not been discharged by midwife team yet, let alone 'well-intentioned' health visitors. We've been ill, bad colds and mastitis for me. We've not shown a weight gain since birth and had a loss of >10%. We had a horrible visit to a&e where low and behold, nothing is wrong, after loads of invasive tests.

I've been ordered onto 50ml formula top ups per feed, pending another MW assessment and weight check on Sunday. I'm unbelievably stressed about the situation and am in danger of losing confidence in myself and ability to BF. It's really awful, i'm so worried the supply I've built up so far is inadequate and going to tail off, as I can't get myself into a good place about this. I've got helpline advice, but everytime I see a MW or doctor, it's another knockback. I can't believe you get treated like this.

horrible enhara - if you're feeding okay and you're getting the nappies, you're fine. :)

i just can't understand why they immediately default to formula instead of helping

oops spelled your name wrong

No problem with amount of nappies, but one of their gripes is the colour of the poo. It's not yellow yet, more of a gingery brown - anyone have any ideas about this?

mmm.
just late catching up maybe?

if you've both been ill, that won't help.
I know they say what you eat doesn't have an effect on breastmilk, but I think it must do a little bit - make sure you drink plenty and eat lots.
:)

If the poos aren't mustardy yellow at this age it can mean that baby irm't getting a large enough volume of milk to have cleared all the meconium out.

Have you had no weight gain after the initial loss?

I would think that you need to see a RL breastfeeding counsellor or lactation consultant. Where in the country are you?

No gain yet (fingers crossed for Sun), last drop was only 30g. I'm in London, I'm planning to go to my local drop-in group on Monday. I've been eating really well. Perhaps I should up my water intake more, I've taken a real hammering with this bloody cold, just can't catch up with myself and I'm so tired and stressed.

yes, a bfing counsellor is the best step.
I don't think gingery sounds that far from yellow though.
have you seen the nct charts and compared it?

here

Thanks nickelD, that's really helpful, I hadn't looked at those. We're not a million miles away from the day 7 pic. I would struggle to describe that as bright yellow though. I hope my interpretation of colour hasn't been letting me down.

Been trying to have a relaxed afternoon, nice bath, bed and a couple of feeds with (ssssssh!) no top up. Feeling a bit happier.

Is she still continuing to lose weight?

It is very unusual for a baby to continue to lose weight this long after the birth. I would ring one of the national helplines now and talk to a BFC this evening.

Enraha so sorry, it sounds like you're really going through it. I am no expert but I know let down can be inhibited by stress (and I think affected mine since seeing the HV on Monday) so I would relax as much as possible and enjoy feeding. Nickel's suggestion of lots of skin to skin helped - she's been feeding much better today - and maybe also try feeding in the bath for a really calm, relaxing experience for both of you. Get OH or someone to look after you, provide meals etc and just spend as much time feeding your LO as possible. Try keeping your boobs easily accessible all the time. Good luck with it all and try not to get down on yourself. You are doing a great job, the best you possibly can so keep your chin up and enjoy all the closeness with your LO.

realMBJ, we find out on Sunday, I hope not. Had the same issue with DD, although she took one month to regain birth weight, and ended up mixed then FF, because of the intervention. I really want to be successful at BF this time round.

Apart from being ill and very out of sorts for a few days last week, I thought we we were doing really well and things were clicking. The 2nd weight loss reading at 10 days, was a real blow. Unfortunately, having been there before, doesn't actually make it any easier this time.

somersaults hope you don't mind me putting this in here, but it fits more with the ethos of your thread than mine in some ways.

I was told on wed that my baby (8w) had dropped from 91st to 75th centile, and I basically have 2 weeks before we panic. I felt that my milk had been okay - maybe less supply than before, but had put it down to finally settling down and not becoming engorged.

I've had 2 days of stress and tears now. I get worked up when he won't feed, relieved when he does, and no idea whether he's feeding more or less than before, but because I'm doubting myself I've convinced myself I'm starving him. Even though he seems content.

I did some research and found out that tablets I had been prescribed to stop menstrual bleeding (yes, have that too on top of everything!) can reduce milk supply. I rang the docs in a flap, and was told yes, that was the case and to stop taking them. No apology (I had asked the prescribing nurse if they were ok whilst feeding). So I've convinced myself it's worse than ever.

I did some research here and found that domperidome can be prescribed as it increases milk. So I rang for another GP consult for more information, and to see whether it might be considered in these circumstances. Dr was incredibly unhelpful, and told me "sometimes milk just dries up. That's why we have formula".

So, basically, if my milk does go completely (and they have agreed that the drugs THEY gave me might have triggered this) it's basically tough and onto formula - they will not prescribe.

I know they sell domperidome as motillium OTC, but I think it will cost me over £30 for a week's supply.

Where is the nhs support?

chocolatey get down to Holland and Barrett and get some Fenugreek. It really helps build up supply though it does make you smell a bit if you have the right dose. Keep feeding as often as you can, especially the night time feeds (yes I know it's harsh!) and keep going. Your supply will pick up again fairly quickly once the drugs are out of your system.

I know I say it a lot and it seems light-hearted but cake and wine can really help breastfeeding because they make you relax and feel better, and that helps boost milk let down.

chocolaty you need some RL support. Do you have a local BF support group? With a trained NCT/LLL/BfN/ABM breastfeeding counsellor?

It won't all be lost. Yes, oestrogen can reduce supply but even if your supply drops significantly and you need to supplement for a little while there are techniques that can help you increase your supply back up again and ways if giving the supplement to avoid over filling your baby on formula.

I would also start my own thread on here for help.

DD was given formula from day 1 because she was too sleepy/ill to bf properly, and after a week in hospital was on 50/50. I thought the mw were very practical - gave me tons of help with bf but gave formula when necessary.

The advice they give might be becase it's easier for babies to feed and gain weight with ff, so this is a good thing if your dc has lost too much weight (although I can't give an opinion whether she has lost 'too much'). I wouldn't panic about giving her formula - it is not the devil's spawn and doesn't mean she'll refuse the breast.